Hi all. New member here. I'm looking at buying my first ever Jaguar - an XF Sportbrake - and have heard some horror stories about reliability, with the engines in particular.

Apologies in advance - I'm sure you get inundated with posts from new members looking for pre-buying advice - but I have done a fair bit of reading here and elsewhere, and I'm still a bit confused on whether this is an historic issue that no longer affects newer cars, and if so, from which point (i.e. model year) reliability was no longer a serious concern.

I'm currently looking at a 2018 V6 Diesel S and a 2021 P250 (I'll be test driving both this weekend), but I'm fairly open to considering all variants at this stage in principle - I'm just trying to find out if there are certain engines/variants/years that I should be avoiding due to more serious reliability concerns.

I'll exclusively be looking at cars from 2018 onwards and only those sold as approved used from a main dealer, so I will have a one-year warranty (and may look to extend that, if that's something you'd generally recommend and is possible with the dealer), and basically my only deal breaker in terms of options is that I'd definitely want a panoramic roof, as I otherwise find estates too dark and dingy - particularly for rear passengers.

I'm looking to change car because my C63 has become too expensive to run. I live in London, so actually don't drive very much (a few mid-length drives every few weeks and then much longer drives - up to North Yorkshire and the Lakes, in particular - a few times a year), so fuel economy isn't too much of a concern. (Though will periods of inactivity be an issue for the DPF? I've never had a diesel before.) The insurance is obviously high (group 47), but it's the servicing and parts. I haven't even had the car two years and have had to replace the front lower control arms, the front radiator, both front discs and a full set of tyres. Ouch.

So I'm looking for something that will be cheaper to run and hopefully very reliable, while also being fun to drive and have a quality interior. The alternative option is that I just completely give up and get a Passat, but I don't think I'm there quite yet!

Any advice much appreciated.

 

p.s. I suspect I'll end up with something with less than 50k miles on the clock, if that helps. Thanks again.

 

Welcome to the forums ashfanman,

I'll give some general Jaguar advice as I've only driven XF's as dealer courtesy cars. Members with this model will be better able to give specific pointers to the virtues and vices of your potential choice.

Jaguar had an atrocious reputation in the 1970's and 80's. I bought my first XJ6 in 1972 and it gradually dissolved from the ground up over the following four years. Local Authorities in the North of England had a passion for road salt! I was also a serial destroyer of 4.2 litre engines but that was probably more youthful exuberance than any shortcoming in design. Reliability rose under the leadership of Sir John Egan and Ford money allowed huge improvements in build quality. Both four door and two door models with the V8 engine were wonderful cars to own and drive but we'll never see the likes of them again. Although the cars were greatly improved, the bad reputation stuck.

The first advice is always that provenance is critical with any used Jaguar. Preferably a one owner vehicle and definitely with a continuous service history (no gaps) and a fat file of bills to support any additional work. As you are in the UK, any recent Jaguar will have OSH (Online Service History) which is easily checked from the VIN and choosing to go with "Approved Used" removes a lot of the worry. The ingenium diesel engines have gained a bit of a reputation for expensive faults and failure. Petrol or diesel is personal choice although the latter will be more numerous. If you are not a DiY person then going for extended warranty would be prudent. Parts are not cheap and availability is becoming more of a problem but that is not unique to JLR.

If you intend low miles then servicing is likely to be on a "time elapsed" rather than "mileage" basis and this will be every 12 months. Dealer servicing costs have risen alarmingly since the pandemic. Regularly used Jaguars are always more reliable than ones the Americans delightfully term "garage queens". Battery condition and state of charge is critical with modern models to avoid spurious electrical/electronic error codes or messages. Many of us use a CTEK battery tender to avoid this. If you don't have parking with the ability to connect a charger then think very carefully about a potential purchase.

Graham

 

The P250 is a nice engine, reliable with decent power and reasonable on fuel too. I've had just one minor issue in around 40,000 miles.
If you're doing low mileages it's the one to go for.

 

I would avoid any 2019 or earlier XF with the diesel Ingenium engine. These engines have become a bit notorious for timing chain failure and, being at the back of the engine, are very hard to get to. From 2020 onwards this problem was reportedly fixed by Jag modfiying some components.
The petrol Ingenium engines seem to be pretty reliable though.

 

Thanks all - that's very helpful.

I'm test driving a 2018 V6 diesel tomorrow - so that would be one to avoid? If the timing chain has already been replaced on an older car, will the replacement parts be the modified ones, and therefore not subject to the same reliability issues? If so, I could ask the garage whether that work has already been carried out on this specific car.

 

If the V6 diesel is the one I'm thinking of, it has a timing belt, not timing chains. As for the Ingenium engine, I bought my 2017 XE Portfolio in January 2019 with 10k on the clock from Crewe Jaguar, my local main agent. I'm now on 53k miles and so far have had no trouble whatsoever. When I bought the car, I also bought a service plan, and when that expired I took out another one. The Jaguar service interval is 2 years or 21k miles which I considered far too long an interval, so I got a yearly oil and filter change included in the plan at additional cost. This includes a vehicle inspection too, whiich I regard as essential every year. Whilst there has been the timing chain issue with the Ingenium, it has not affected all the cars, so one has to wonder whether the use pattern of individual owners has something to do with it. Wheel spin to wheel lock type of driving is never going to lead to reliability. The Ingenium engine is not unique in its timing chain location, I beliive the equivalent BMW engine is the same.
In terms of petrol or diesel, I would have preferred petrol but there just weren't any around when I bought mine. I'm not sure if the petrol Ingeniums have the balance shafts that the diesels have. I prefer engines to be as simple as possible, but it does make this four-cylinder engine more acceptable for use in an upmarket car..
Also as I understand it, Jaguar modified the Ingenium timing chain assembly in 2019, not 2020 to deal with the failure issue.

 

For the edjamacation of the OP, all Ingenium engines both petrol and diesel and both 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder are in line and none are V configuration.
The V6 diesel is an update of the previous 3.0 diesel from the X250 etc which in turn was an update of the original 2.7 litre V6 diesel which dates from 2005. No connection whatsoever to the Ingenium range of engines.

 

So, the V6 diesel has no particular reliability concerns? That's a relief.

Anything else I need to be looking out for? I've read about the door locks, so will make sure that all of those work, and I also understand that the seven-year service is quite expensive (cam belt change?), so given that this is a 2018 car, I guess that's something I'll have to factor in for the short-medium term.

My only other concern is with the fact that I often have periods of 3-4 weeks where I don't drive at all. I probably do around 6k miles per year, but the bulk of that would be in a relatively limited number of trips down to the south coast and up to North Yorkshire / the Lakes. Those are obviously long motorway runs, which I understand is what diesel cars like (for the DPF), although I do occasionally do some shorter local drives and most of the roads around me are 20mph limits (Greater London). I take the earlier point about the battery, so will look at getting a CTEK charger. (I have a driveway, so it shouldn't be an issue for me to connect it to that periodically - presumably I wouldn't need to leave it connected constantly?) But would there be any other issues with having the car sitting for periods unused that would be particular to diesel engines? Sorry if that's a stupid question - I've always driven petrol cars, so this is completely uncharted territory for me!

Really appreciate all this help - what a great forum.

 

If it's a V6 Diesel I doubt it has a timing issue. Only the 2.0 4 cyclinder Diesel Inginium engine both on Jaguar and Land Rover models. If the timing chain had been replaced on a 2.0 yes the replacement part will be a modified chain and guide same as the 2019 and beyond Inginium Diesels.

My advise is do short oil changes if you want the engine to last up to 150k miles or more. If you are using JLR approved engine oil do it at 7k to 10K miles/Km.

I'm not like the others (though a lot would disagree-"to each his own"), I have a X260 XF with a 2.0 Gas/Petrol and I have used 0W-20 top tier engine oil even without JLR approval on it as long as it has Dexos 2 or 3 stamped on the bottle. But I do my oil changes at 5K miles

 

Test drive today went well - it's a lovely car. But I just had a look at the cost of the Jaguar service plan online and the servicing costs are almost twice the price of my C63 - an absolutely shocking £4,700 for the next four years (around £850 for the 6-year service, £1,500 for the 7-year, £550 for the 8-year, and £1,450 for the 9-year).

I've asked the dealer to double-check that's accurate, because I just can't believe that the servicing costs are more than a 500hp V8 AMG that is a significantly more expensive car overall.

If so, I'll sadly have to move the search to another marque.

 

I think I'd want to know what I'm getting for that sort of money; my service plan for my XE is nothing like as expensive. Jaguar put all sorts of things in which are, frankly, optional and should really be based on inspection. Why do they do this ? Who knows, but probably to protect their ***** from customers who say "well you never told me to do that, I want compensation " They recommend, for instance, replacement of all flexible brake hoses at 5 or 6 years, (not sure of the exact no.of years). I've never done anything like this in 50 years of motoring and I'm not going to start now ! Brake pads and discs wear out and need replacing and the obvious time is the next service. Brake fluid replacement is probably on there too, yet modern electronic testers will tell you when the water content is too high, so why waste money when the brake fluid is OK ?
What you want is the "normal" servicing with extras costed separately. Or don't take out any service plan at all, and follow what is in the Owner Manual for the car. When my services are carried out at my local main agent, Swansway Jaguar at Crewe, a check is always carried out underneath the car and recommendations made. All the service plan does for me is build up a sum of money that is then available when the car service is due. I even have AdBlue refills on it !
I suspect that with you living in London, the local dealers are engaging in a bit of price gouging, thinking you are a multi-millionaire. You must be if you live in London (only joking !)

 

A bit of an update - it seems the ridiculous service plan cost is unique to the XF S V6D. I got a quote for a similar (age/mileage) P250 and the price dropped from £4,700 to £1,500, although this was mainly because it is only recommending a service every other year. I'm going to give an independent Jag garage a call to get their thoughts on all this and see what they say.

The P250 obviously does have the ingenium engine though. Is there any way to check whether the engine in a particular car is the old design with the serious reliability issues, or a newer one with the modified parts? I've read that the problem was fixed "during 2019", but can't see whether that means all 2019 cars are definitely the newer engine, whether the change was introduced part-way through the model year, or whether it's just some cars and a bit of a lottery, etc. Does anyone have a definitive answer? Is this something a garage would be able to tell me if I called about their car?

 

I have had two xf 1) XF 3 litre diesel 2010 model- great car no issues more than 200,000 kms.
2) Current one is XF2019 P300 petrol.. around 68000 kms, no issues, all good. The petrol P300 4 cyl has heaps of power. Only serviced once per year.
The new one (p300) is not as good quality as the old one (mainly interior, more plastic now).And the P300 is not as smooth or quiet. I guess thats what you get when you get the sports model.
But I would reccomend it, drives great, comfortable, handles very good and is good on fuel. I get around 7.5 Litres per 100 KM or around 800 km per tank.
and looks good, but not quite as smart as the older one, this one looks more sporty.
Len from Sydney

 

I am surprised coming from a C63 that your not looking at the XJ instead of the XF?
Kind of different levels of car?
XJ might be too big as your in London?
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I’m looking for an estate. And the XF Sportbrake is already slightly bigger than the C63 estate - I certainly don’t need anything bigger than that.

 

What did you end up buying?

 

My Xf has been good to me for 9 years with no major issues, due to changing the oil every 5000 and paying attention to maintenance, but after time the plastic parts decay, here's a list to update your parts to metal VIDEO all mine doing is to help