When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
For me, seeing both the 2016 XFL (China market) and the 2021 XFL (camo test) makes the case for replacing the XJ with it in the US & Europe.
Whereas an EV XJ using the I-Pace batteries ($36,000 to replace them!) would fill a unique market niche, I submit that the precarious car markets during Covid simply can't support a billion dollar large sedan investment from the one of the world's smallest manufacturers.
Thoughts?
2016 XFL 2021 XFL.. Can Jaguar afford to spend Tata money on an EV XJ when this already exists?
As far as I knew the new gas/coal/nuclear powered XJ is ready, with just its launch date slightly postponed probably due to Covid and who knows what else?
JLR did also say that it was also engineered to take a non washing machine engined version, will be offered as well down the line.
Who knows now that Thierry's there he may share more in common with me than our years of birth and dare to sign off on a supercharged V8 version?
You mentioned the XFL, perhaps to the rest of the Western world there's not much to get excited about the Chery built Jaguars. The many advantages were obvious when JLR made the choice but ultimately this strategy puts you at the control of the CCP.
They've mentioned that Jaguars will always continue to be made in the UK for the rest of the world. But well into the future there may come a time when a company looks at the minuscule production cost in the Orient as compared to Old Blighty?
I have YET to wrap my head around V-6's... New Jags with 4 bangers are too funny to me and will never grace my driveway. Sadly I only buy new "Jaguar parts". Sigh
Surely there must be plans for the Ingenium 6. Right now I think it's only making 400 hp with the hybrid system attached. A 3L turbo ought to be able to do 400 without help. I suspect hotter versions are coming.
Mkii250, Id'e say you may be right about the Ingenium 6. With Bridgend closing down not sure where Jaguar will source a V8 if they at all want one?
Like their competition they will need an entry level 4 cylinder.
Would be quite nostalgic to see the larger sedans back to inline 6 cyl power but many of the old buyers may not be interested unless Jaguar offered a V8.
Mkii250, Id'e say you may be right about the Ingenium 6. With Bridgend closing down not sure where Jaguar will source a V8 if they at all want one?
Like their competition they will need an entry level 4 cylinder.
Would be quite nostalgic to see the larger sedans back to inline 6 cyl power but many of the old buyers may not be interested unless Jaguar offered a V8.
JLR moved production of the AJ133 V8 and AJ126 V6 from Bridgend to Wolverhampton many months ago, so those engines have some life still.
But how long before they are killed off by idiotic "emissions" diktats is anyone's guess!
The updates were needed and look great. I hope they made the necessary tech improvements as well. The engine will stop me from buying an xf after 2020. A 4 cylinder is too small for that size car. Even a 6 at 350hp is a little underpowered for a jaguar. When I buy a car like that it's for performance. It's made to be driven like a jaguar. If I wanted a gutless fuel economy car is buy a honda or toyota. Hopefully they will relent and offer a 6 cylinder sport model
The updates were needed and look great. I hope they made the necessary tech improvements as well. The engine will stop me from buying an xf after 2020. A 4 cylinder is too small for that size car. Even a 6 at 350hp is a little underpowered for a jaguar.
Fair enough.. my '17 s/c v6 is 332 lb/ft moving 3,770 lbs.
At 4.9 secs 0-60 for my '17 XF, what 0-60 time would not feel underpowered for ya?😉
Last edited by Michael John; 12-16-2020 at 12:06 AM.
Fair enough.. my '17 s/c v6 is 332 lb/ft moving 3,770 lbs.
At 4.9 secs 0-60 for my '17 XF, what 0-60 time would not feel underpowered for ya?😉
Underpowered is open to interpretation. Perhaps underpowered isn't the correct word. For it's class it's on the higher end in terms of hp and torque. I guess when say underpowered I meant in regards to the rs7 or the quad. So an unfair comparison since it's like comparing apples to oranges.
0-60 times sure are fun to test but any large sedan under 6 sec should put you way out front in most traffic situations.
On one hand can I count a month's worth of 0-60 drops..
The new Ingenium engines pull well in midrange rpms but clearly wheeze out @6k.. My AJ126 has good power everywhere. The XF I tested with the i4 felt fine above 2k, strong @4k and done at 5600 rpms. It would certainly require a re-calibration of my expectations.
Given the lower msrp, better interiors and Pivi Pro, I see Jaguar XF now going after Genesis G70/80 & Infiniti value customers and leaving the Germans to mid the $70k+ buyers market.
Sounds reasonable but the i6 mhev engine would rock!
My problem with all 4 bangers isn't so much the horsepower but the available torque at any rpm. I'm not a speed freak and don't play stop light bingo but when I push the go pedal I expect the car to react. Hanging turbos, sometimes multiple ones, on any engine (especially a 4 pot) doesn't work for me because unless you're at the right rpm for one of them you wait and then it comes on with a rush. The supercharger is one of the reasons I bought my XF ..... instant go. The added noise and rough running don't help either for the 4 cylinder.
0-60 times sure are fun to test but any large sedan under 6 sec should put you way out front in most traffic situations.
On one hand can I count a month's worth of 0-60 drops..
The new Ingenium engines pull well in midrange rpms but clearly wheeze out @6k.. My AJ126 has good power everywhere. The XF I tested with the i4 felt fine above 2k, strong @4k and done at 5600 rpms. It would certainly require a re-calibration of my expectations.
Given the lower msrp, better interiors and Pivi Pro, I see Jaguar XF now going after Genesis G70/80 & Infiniti value customers and leaving the Germans to mid the $70k+ buyers market.
Sounds reasonable but the i6 mhev engine would rock!
The reason I bought my jag was I didn't want a vehicle that was a dime a dozen. Mercedes has watered their brand down so much and every 40 something that just got a promotion has a bmw. When I saw the jag I fell in love with the styling and when I drove it I was hooked. Granted I would love a 8 speed manual transmission. I'm sorry but I'm old school and I hate the paddle shifters. Imo if they lower the brand to get more buyers while at the same time alienating their loyal customers I believe they will go bankrupt or water their brand down too much. Jaguar has style and class while at the same time has performance that makes it fun to drive. Trying to compete with the japanese after being in the same class as the Germans is like someone telling you they going to get seafood and taking you to red lobster. It's fine and it's ok but I want king crab legs or a 2.5lb lobster not one that looks like a crawfish on steroids.
The reason I bought my jag was I didn't want a vehicle that was a dime a dozen... not one that looks like a crawfish on steroids.
😁 or worse yet, Sirimi..
Having enjoyed several 80's vintage manual European cars, that visceral shifter connection is clearly a dying breed in today's and tomorrow's cars. Jaguar's "short-term survival" will come from better market share of the expanding suv market; their new bread & butter sellers of late.
Coupes, Estates & Saloons are dying off.
And, as more European govt's force the long-term death of the ICE, I fear the smaller, rarer brands will be forced out of business largely by 2040; in step with less commuting and more autonomous driving anyway.
Sadly, consolidation & homogenization is inexorable in consumerism.. eg: Amazon & Walmart.com.
The "car business" (truck & suv business shortly) will rapidly consolidate from the current 45 brands down to the dozen strongest over the next 20 years. It is unbelievable that my favorite small brands: Alfa, Jaguar, Maserati, Mazda, Aston Martin, etc. and other smaller players will make the 2040 cut. Hybrid/electric Powertrain and autonomous systems subsidizing for these smaller brands will result in an ROI yield curve that'll be simply unsustainable.
Trust that I do not wish any of this as I was born in the 60's and have loved my fast, noisy dinosaur burning rides!
Back to the '21 XF..
I, too, see dozens of the MB/BMW/AUDI/LEXUS clones everyday around Richmond. I see a Jag once a week!
If Jaguar can launch an XJ with air suspension when my warranty expires in '23, then I'm buying!
If not, at least I'll have 2 XF's. 🙃
My problem with all 4 bangers isn't so much the horsepower but the available torque at any rpm. ..
Agreed and it sounds like our driving styles overlap. But I must mention my 2016 VW Golf 1.8T, which makes 185 lb-ft maximum, and all of it at 1600 rpm somehow. I had zero turbo experience before getting this one last year, and the 1.8T isn't quite what I expected. You really can dig gobs of torque out of it low down--in fact you have to to make an ordinary right-hand turn in 3rd @ 1400 (manual trans.). VW knows it too because in this 5-speed 'box, 4th AND 5th are overdrive. I could go on about how impressed I am with this "new" engine that has been out since about 2012 while I was driving an XJ6 with 176 hp....(not a gripe).
Surely there must be plans for the Ingenium 6. Right now I think it's only making 400 hp with the hybrid system attached. A 3L turbo ought to be able to do 400 without help. I suspect hotter versions are coming.
Well what do I know, lol. I just watched Harry's Garage on the new Defender 110 with that 3.0 Ingenium inline 6 and mild hybrid system. The hybrid does nothing. All 395 hp is from the gas unit. Not bad then for 3.0L. It has two sequential turbos.
10-20-2020, 11:12 PM
XFL vs XJ
