Hi all,

Ever since I got my used 2012 XF I have noticed that 7/10 times on engine start and idle there is a loud clicking sound.

On colder starts I always let the engine drop down its rpms before putting it into a moving gear but this is when I hear the sound.

At first I thought it was just the direct injectors and so I just ignored it. After taking the car to the Jaguar dealership mechanic, he noticed it and felt it was a concern. He believed the noise to be coming from the water pump and so they renewed my water-pump under my extended warranty.

Problem is that the sound is still there...

Sometimes the car even shakes from left to right and it feels really weird. This happens at idle after start. While this was happening today, I noticed the RPMs were slightly jumping around while the car was shaking until settling after a while. Then the shaking dampened but the noise still was there.

Accelerating makes the clicking noise speed up where eventually you cannot hear it anymore. After driving the car on the roads the noise is nearly gone at a stop sign/light. It is mostly evident on startup idle.

What do you think it is?

 

I wouldn't let that go very long without getting it repaired. RPMs look a little low also.

 

The RPM's are way to low..mine drops to 800 from 1100..that may be causing the shaking and the noise.

 

Mine revs at 800 rpm with a cold engine then after only a few seconds it drops to 600 rpm and stays there, solid a rock and dead smooth. So I'm not sure that 600 rpm is "too low" for the 5.0 litre motor. Mine is the S/C but I doubt it's correct idle speed would be any lower than the NA.

 

All it sounded like was a Cummings diesel.

 

Today I monitored my startups, started engine with rpm's at 1300rpm and then it slowed down to idle at 750 rpm. This didn't have any significant noise or shaking issues and seems normal.

I noticed in the video it is pretty low and when it idles that low (550 rpm) it is probably when I hear the noise.
Other wise I can still hear it but at those higher rpm's the noise has a faster click where its barely recognizable.

The shaking feels as if someone is outside pushing the car left and right. Eventually the shaking stops and settles down. If you look at my original video, in the beginning you may be able to notice some of the shaking. I have noticed this shaking twice or 3 times, one time I felt it after having the car in reverse and then putting it in park while the engine was warmed up (after a drive).
I am guessing some sort of pulley system connected to the engine that is not lubricated and is applying a breaking torque to the engine where it is shaking to try and over come the torque. Sorry I am new to cars and don't know much but this is what I am guessing.

I would hate to go back to the dealer now because I JUST came back from there where they "renewed" my water pump. Since this has not happened today I may not be able to recreate the problem and those dealership mechanic guys need that or they don't do ****. My car is now 80,100 km which is approx around 50,000 miles and I drive it decently hard at times during my commute to let the engine breath. Any idea of what I should tell the mechanic ? If I can recreate the problem I will go and get this fixed so I will do more testing in the mean time.

The shaking reminds me of a muscle car shake...if you know what I mean.

 

A failing ignition coil unit can cause symptoms like this. Best thing is to have a diagnostic computer read the ECU.

 

Today I notice again low RPMS and that loud clicking sound. I noticed about 2 seconds of shaking and then it dampened but the noise was there.

When driving it feels as if the car is not as butter smooth anymore after the mechanic renewed my water pump. I have more road vibration feel and the engine seems like its on load (kinda like going up hill). After giving it some gas and letting the engine get used to driving, eventually the car becomes smooth again and the pulls are stronger when accelerating.

I have a new video today I opened the hood. I think you may be able to pinpoint the sound as I notice a rusted wheel in the engine bay that I think is driving the belt. I believe the sound is coming from there or somewhere around that area.

Could this still be a failed ignition coil unit? I did notice startup issues before and I notice my RPMs when driving are not smooth, they go slightly wobbly when there is not that much gas applied while accelerating.

 

Your symptoms suggest to me that one cylinder is not firing properly at idle. That would cause both the noise and the shaking,
Common causes of this are a faulty coil on that spark plug (all JLR 5.0 motors are "coil on plug") or a faulty/blocked injector.
If I were you I would take the car to a good independent mechanic and get him to check for those things.

 

What is your fuel mileage like right now?...that would explain if you're not hitting on all cylinders...That last vid did sound like it's got a dead one.

 

Leave it overnight and let the mechanic hear it from a cold start.

 

Took it to the jag dealership and they agreed it's a problem. The service manager still think's the noise is from the water pump but it was replaced... She told me shes not sure but her mechanic would look at it further next week.

I talked to the mechanic there who is the same guy who replaced my water pump. He said he would need to look at it further when I leave it over next week. I asked him if he thought it could be a failed ignition coil but he immediately said no. He said a warning would show up on the dash if it was that.

I told the service manager about how I am noticing performance difference, and she told me if there was a malfunction or failure causing a performance difference it would show up on the dash. She said the performance test margins are very thin.

Anyways, they said next week they will look at it and they said its safe to drive. The car was shaking again on startup over there while I was leaving but I forgot to tell them about that symptom.

I have my warranty and that's why I don't want to spend money to get this stuff looked at by another external mechanic. If these guys still don't fix it I think I can go to another Jaguar dealership and use my cpo warranty there.

I am also starting to think it could be the gas I am using. I always fill with 91 octane no ethanol from Shell. The last fill up has been from Shell but the gas station seemed sketchy as the prices were noticeably lower than all surrounding stations. I stupidly just filled it at the same place again because it was cheaper and that is when I realized this. I do not know what engine knocking sounds like but all I do notice is my low rpm torque is not as strong. After 2000rpm the engine opens up or maybe after 2000 rpm the bad cylinder starts working.

With regards to my fuel efficiency (fuel: 91 no ethanol) today I saw it go to 9.7 L/100km (24 mpg) on the highway but average around 10-14 l/100km (17-19 mpg) on streets.


Another symptom I noticed started today: After starting the engine, the rpm dial did not rev up with the engine. The engine started with a standard rev and while it reduced its actual rpm, then the dial started and caught up to the actual engine speed. So the rpm dial does not rotated with the engine startup, it lags and catches up when the engine is slowing down. It was like a 2-3 second delay after pushing the start button. This has happened 2 times so far today where my engine was cool, on warm engine starts it was normal. I will check tomorrow morning. All other accessories started normally.

 

If you are fortunate enough to have another JAG dealer near by, I would go to them instead, before I'd take it back to the one you are dealing with now..they sound kind of sketchy, if you ask me....I know I would be giving them 9 kinds of holy-hell for their incompetence.

 

Definitely try buying gas from a different station.

 

Agree that you should try to buy top tier gas (Top Tier Gasoline) whenever you can. Since you are in Canada it looks like these are your best bet:
Chevron Canada
CO-OP
Costco Wholesale
Esso
Petro-Canada
Shell Canada
Tempo

What this sounds like though is definitely a bigger issue. I am surprised you haven't thrown any CELs yet but hopefully they will dig up the bigger problem if it exists. Otherwise, definitely seek out another dealer for a second opinion.

 

EXACTLY!
You have whats a possible dead cylinder?
That was possibly caused by their water pump change? (That in its self is really kinda whooii for a diagnosis).
But they say it's ok to drive?
If you believe that, I have nice bridge in San Francisco to sell ya cheap!
If your going to drive it, drive it to another dealer to be checked out..
I actually to me sounds like your harmonic balancer is bad, its that rusty thing you referred too. Wandering rpm, engine shakes as well as fluctuating oil pressure and timing (Why you need to stop driving it until you know whats wrong) can all be symptoms of a bad harmonic balancer.
Now here's the kicker a bad harmonic balancer can take out your water pump, and a leaking water pump can take out your harmonic balancer..lol
I see no CEL, but that only means whatever the real problem is it has not turned it on. NOT that the problem isn't serious.

 

That's not a clicking sound that's a knocking sound. Last time I heard that type of noise it was rod knocking in the piston pin bearing.

Has anybody checked the accessory belt tensioner for failure?

 

TO ME IT SOUNDS AS IF THE TIMING CHAIN TENSIONERS ARE CAUSING THE NOISE. IF YOU CAN USE A STETHOSCOPE OR USE A SCREWDRIVER AS A STETHOSCOPE YOU CAN PINPOINT THE NOISE. TRY AT THE FRONT OF THE ENGINE AT THE UPPER FRONT OVER (WATCH THE BELTS AND MOVING PARTS)- USUALLY THE PASSENGER SIDE IS THE NOISY SIDE. WHAT HAPPENS IS THE TENSIONER RIDES ON A BLADE THAT PUTS TENSION ON THE CHAIN. ITS A STEEL PLUNGER RIDING ON AN ALUMINUM BLADE. WHERES A SPOT AND LOSES TENSION. THE UPDATED PARTS HAVE A REINFORCED BUTTON ON THE BLADE. i KNOW THIS SINCE AN EXTENDED WARRANTY COMPANY WOULD NOT LET ME PUT TENSIONERS IN A VEHICLE A WAS DOING HEAD GASKETS ON FROM A WATER PUMP FAILURE THAT LEAD TO OVERHEAT. VEHICLE LEFT FOR 1000 MILES AND CAME BACK WITH A NOISE THAT SOUNDED LIKE LOWER ENGINE NOISE. ONCE THE PASSENGER FRONT COVER WAS OFF I COULD SEE THE LOOSE CHAIN.

 

Ok so I took it again to the jaguar dealership for its scheduled repairs. The service rep called me yesterday telling me that Jaguar wants them to send them some pressure readings. He did not tell me the specifics but I am guessing he was testing all the pressure / temperature readings from the engine to validate if they are in line.

He did a test when the engine was hot and sent it to them. He called telling me all this and that Jaguar also wants them to do a cold test (on the engine when its cold). So it was with them another day for their testing.

Today the rep called me and told me they completed the tests and it looks like I need my engine replaced.


Now...is this a good thing for me or bad? I am only going to approve it if I am not paying a penny. I do not know if they are replacing it with a new engine or an old one... on my Jaguar CPO book it says Engine - Remanufactured is covered. Should I still replace it anyways and is this important? Are they required to provide me the miles driven on the engine because if it is lower then its good resale value.

Another thing I am scared of is further damage done to my car while they are changing the engine. I am so surprised my engine needs to be replaced seeing that its at 81,000 km (50,331 miles).

They said I should get my car back next week, in the mean time I am driving a car they rented for me which is a Chevy Cruz. I guess at least they are paying for the rental car...

 

Wow I am surprised that was the outcome. I wonder what happened for the engine to need replacement at that mileage? I personally wouldn't be super concerned with the engine they will be putting back in it, or collateral damage that could occur by doing so. If they are competent techs it won't be an issue. I WOULD be concerned if I had to pay for it so that should be your top priority right now is getting that confirmed. That is going to be a BIG bill dude.

Keep us posted