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I recently have had a leak in my water pump and have bought this new, potentially upgraded one. It is currently getting installed and I will receive the car back tomorrow.
I would like to know if this will be better than the OEM water pump and other parts that come with the kit. Also is there any horsepower or gas efficiency gained by doing this? I already average 19.8 MPG which seems the most I can get out of it, was wondering if I can get any better.
Not really any improvements in the WP but I do think your wise to get and install one of those kits. They are a good value and have all the metal upgrade parts which ARE real upgrades! Now it is still missing one metal cooling pipe upgrade?
They forgot the Aluminum transfer tube between the WP and oil cooler brick. It's cheap at around $30 or so. Inflation again as it was about $15! It is the URO brand and I don't like their plastic parts at all but so far nothing wrong with this nice Al. part. Oil Cooler Brick Aluminum Transfer Tube
I have the later 8 speed SC 5.0L V-8 and I am still amazed at the fuel mileage I get! I drive hard and have a tune and lower pulley upgrades. My 5.0L makes over 530HP to the rear wheels on the dyno. I never get below 21.5 MPG or so in town and the highway mileage is 27-28 MPG which still blows my mind! The VAP tune gave me great power and drivability along with an unexpected increase in fuel mileage.
With all the cars I have owned and all the mods I have done this is the only car that gained a measurable increase in gas mileage after the mods.
As far as I know the rear water manifold in Al. is only for the V-6 engine? We have been told the V-8 version is in the works and I for one am anxiously awaiting the release of this part!
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Last edited by clubairth1; 12-01-2023 at 12:29 PM.
They are sending me one to test on a 5.0 supercharged F-type, which has 2 holes for the torx screws ,ill be doing a Video for a subscribers car who lives near me, it's just like the metal one for the 3.0 but it has 2 screw holes each side
on the rear crossover pipe ,same metal
They are sending me one to test on a 5.0 supercharged F-type, which has 2 holes for the torx screws ,ill be doing a Video for a subscribers car who lives near me, it's just like the metal one for the 3.0 but it has 2 screw holes each side
on the rear crossover pipe ,same metal
It won't fit. This is the 5.0, completely different shape. Have you not looked at one? You seem to be misleading people.
Last edited by kansanbrit; 12-21-2023 at 09:39 AM.
i do no the differences ive worked on these cars for decades , i have 3 of them laying in front of of me ,like i said a company ask me to test one for the 5.0 , ive tested the 3.0 and it works ,now testing the 5.0 on a v8 sc in metal
Last edited by dennis black; 12-21-2023 at 10:56 PM.
i do no the differences ive worked on these cars for decades , i have 3 of them laying in front of of me ,like i said a company ask me to test one for the 5.0 , ive tested the 3.0 and it works ,now testing the 5.0 on a v8 sc in metal
OK so where is the photo of the metal 5.0 version? In #2 you told the original poster he needed to fit one.
Last edited by kansanbrit; 12-22-2023 at 06:30 AM.
Like I said they are sending it to me to test , like when I posted the 3.0 version, and make sure you screw all the screws down and check the passage ways, I don't need to say this twice when I'm trying to get something done for 5.0 sc
Last edited by dennis black; 12-22-2023 at 09:23 AM.
Like I said they are sending it to me to test , like when I posted the 3.0 version, and make sure you screw all the screws down and check the passage ways, I don't need to say this twice when I'm trying to get something done for 5.0 sc
Our OP was supposed to get his car back on December 2nd, but has not posted back. I've been wondering what came in that kit since the link provided was NOT the correct part for a 2012 NA. Listing indicates it's for the Supercharged v8 and the pictures show the kit for the V6. Wondering if the repair shop still has his car, waiting on the correct parts.
Tho I'll be a little bit sad if Dennis comes back and reports positively about the prototype metal crossover pipe as I already did "The Big Plastic Replacement" not too long ago. For Dennis or anyone with a V8 venturing to do it yourself, one hint I can suggest, don't even try to reuse the torx bit cap screws on the rear crossover pipe (another Jaguar engineer who should have at least been severely reprimanded), rather take one to a hardware store and get equivalent standard six-sided cap screws (10mm head with no flanges) along with separate flat and lock washers. That'll make it 10x easier to reinstall (or remove again later if you still own the car and have to do The Big Plastic again in ten more years) as the hex head is less fiddly to manipulate in such a tight space and the hex head rides up into the socket rather than jamming your ratchet against the firewall like with the torx bit.
pdupler your correct when i replace crossover pipes Its fiddley back there a hex head would make things easier, when the first metal crossover pipe came out before i posted it ,i had to test it first when i had it in my hand it looked good but with a little testing i found the screws what held it together was loose so i tighten them (the screws on the pipe not the ones for mounting it) , then there was a blockage of gasket maker blocked in the ports easy fix just poke it out and your good,, so now with the 5.0sc ill test it before i post it ,When i received the first one FOR THE 3.0 i sent the seller this image to fix these potential issues before putting it on the market so they did ,but still double check, it, This pipe well made but i had to get on the sellers *** about a few points , the one i have in mine is perfect now like you see in my video ,these are fairly old news now but they do the job ,if your on the highway and the plastic one blows out your in a world of hurt
Last edited by dennis black; 12-23-2023 at 01:12 PM.
Dennis, You are correct, there are a few issues on the alloy pipes, which are not insurmountable. Looking forward to hearing the results for the V8 rear header, keep us informed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bydand
More affordable from our chums in China. Purchased one for the spares shelf. Will still be keep an eye open for the AJ133 type coming out.
Did some basic tests, Blow through the various orifices, as is my want.
Fail, Big Time?
Finding.
The Left hand (LH) Leg to the manifold header would appear to be completely blocked.
The Right hand (RH) would appear to be OK. Air passed through the leg.
LH leg ,Gave it a Poke with a screw driver, and flushed it through with a water hose, No joy.
Contacted the vender on Ali Express, had a brief chat with a BOT, and here we are.
Vendor, "Guangzhou leading luxury car accessories Store" they are just the seller not the manufacturer.
"这个没有压力他过不去的吧，而且凸的位置有传感器进行关闭之类的"
"He can't get through this without pressure, and the convex position is closed by sensors and so on."
So basically BS.
My Investigation.
Determining why there is no flow of air, (wind puff) or water coming from the LH leg to the manifold?
I always wanted to open it up to see how it was but together and this gave me a good enough reason and opportunity.
14 off x M4 x 10mm Long, counter sunk crosshead screws removed and the two half sections pried apart. To reveal a flat flanged surface and a thin bead of silicon sealant.
This also pulled off the chrome plating in some areas of the flanged surfaces.
Reviewing the internals of the manifold heads all seemed good.
However the leg of the LH side was blocked solid, after poking and turning repeatedly with sufficient force with a screwdriver.
It was totally blocked near the vertical flange of pipe to header manifold.
Out with the power drill, and drill bit of suitable length 155mm and Dia. 10mm
I forced through a drilled hole between the LH leg and the manifold header.
I then had a look at the other flow passaged on the RH leg.
Right hand leg and the Heater feed.
The RH leg had Noticeable Chrome flashing restricting the the Leg outlet to the manifold header at the connection between the two.
The throttle body heater feed pipe less so.
This was chipped away with a screw driver, and the hole drilled out, round to 10mm.
Some swarf removed from the LH & RH legs for access to the header.
The outlet header pipe with part restriction of outlet from header.
RH leg vertical flange original restriction.
RH leg vertical flange partly cleared restriction.
RH leg look down from the header manifold into the RH leg pipe. Just can just see the edge of the chrome flashing.
LH leg drilled through with 10mm drill to the manifold header.
RH leg drilled through to Manifold. 10mm
RH leg restriction.
Swarf removed from RH & LH legs after drilling.
Upper and lower manifold casting half, chrome plating peeling on removal.
RH leg with Chrome flashing? obstructing the flow path.
Manifold casting marks, this symbol on the upper casting, and embossed, XF 23/07 ON THE LOWER casting
Manifold On arrival.
10mm x 150mm drill bit trying to track through to the manifold header. Totally blocked, near vertical flange. The scarf from drilling out LH leg hole. The upper and lower manifold split. Flat faced joints with a smear of silicon adhesive. Copper showing from where the chrome plating has lifted.
Summary.
The blocked LH leg on the manifold pipe would have prevented any water flow from the LH cylinder bank.
The restricted RH leg outlet would have restricted CW flow.
The outlet pipe was partly restricted.
The QA of the manufacture, was, / is non existent.
The narrow section of LH/RH leg pipe to the manifold header would appear to be less than Dia 10mm, and blocked/ restricted with Chrome flashing on all ports to some extent.
I would highly recommend anyone purchasing an Alloy rear heater manifold pipe , from any supplier, test it fully and confirm water flow from/ to each orifice.
Prodding with a 10mm drill or rod of suitable length 155mm to proved open and unblocked.
( Why 10mm?? The original header manifold pipe and the new plastic spare(copy) were measured and both found to be 10mm internally to the manifold. The pipe Inlet is 13mm dia. from the cylinder head outlet.
Is it safe to use?
Not without inspection and testing before fitting.
Well it is strong, and if you ensure the ports are opened to the correct size and unblocked /restricted.
Then it should last longer than the plastic rear manifold header.
__________________ Bydand
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 SE, 2000,
Jaguar S Type 4.2R 2007,
Jaguar XF 3.0 SC V6 2013,
Jaguar XK Dynamic R 2014,
Quality over Quantity, Always. I worked hard and I love my Jaguars, Like Captain Kirk Loved the Enterprise.
Never Putting them in Danger in this Clown World we Live In.
Move Along Now..........
Your absolutely right you have to inspect it fully, now they say they pressure test it ,before sending them out now, but please check it Yourselves, once I test the 5.0 sc ,I'll post results and video, mine is working 100% perfect, I put one in a XJ he has no complaints
So long as you realise that, and take the required precautions, as detailed above. These alloy ones will not fail like the original JLR plastic manifolds.
I Will be doing exactly the same when the ones for the V8 come out.
Great work and great review!
Saw you left a review on the Chinese web site too. Good to give people a heads up as this does work but similar to buying tools at Harbor Freight. It's not 100% usable when received so consider it basically an 80% completed part that requires the end user to finish up what the factory "should" have done.
I wonder if its the same company that makes the URO metal thermostat tower for the 4.0L engines. I bought one, but the part I got was so poorly cast that I could not get it to seal. I threw it away and replaced it with another OEM plastic one. Maybe I was an early adopter as most people have not reported any problems.
One thing I'd be concerned about is that it has a long length of surface to seal. That material has some thermal coefficient of expansion (unknown to us) and is going to expand and contract with temperature, yet its anchored at both ends, so its going to flex and bow in the middle like a railroad in the Texas summer heat . Unlike many famous pictures of buckled rails, you won't be able to see it,visually but it will to some degree. Time will tell how it holds up. But theoretically it shouldn't blow out catastrophically like when the PA66 nylon one weakens. The metal one will more likely just leak when the RTV sealant deteriorates and can no longer cope with the flexing. The company producing these is apparently a shoestring operation and we can't expect them to have the resources to install them on a test engine and simulate 100K miles. The first few people on the forum to install them ARE their test mules. Thanks to Dennis and Bydand for your work on this.
Great work and great review!
Saw you left a review on the Chinese web site too. Good to give people a heads up as this does work but similar to buying tools at Harbor Freight. It's not 100% usable when received so consider it basically an 80% completed part that requires the end user to finish up what the factory "should" have done.
Have you installed it on the car yet?
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The wise man learns from the mistakes of others. As they say. Hope it helps someone. Just closing the loops.
Unfortunately, I had already installed the copy plastic one from Ali Express, which is exactly the same as the original from JLR, including the moulding ports, with the JLR casting marks blanked off the pressing.
Which is doing well so far, but would like to have a workable Alloy rear header in the spares bank.
That and having to get three expansion tanks, before I could get one which was not broken in shipping, with a working level float and venting the CW system took more time than expected.
Photos below of it built up rear header and complete with Allan head counter sunk head screws in A2 SS. There was nothing wrong with the cross head screws so far as I could see, but just wanted a more quality grade securing screws.
Like wise, I changed the O rings for Viton O rings on the Alloy front Alloy pipes which I replaced prior to finding the rear Alloy pipe. Just to ensure I had some control of the various items regarding quality and reliability.
The rear header heater manifold can be changed out at anytime. But not in the middle of winter. Cannot comment on the V8 AJ133 but will find out at some stage.
May changed out securing screws for the casing halves.
One thing I'd be concerned about is that it has a long length of surface to seal.
That material has some thermal coefficient of expansion (unknown to us) and is going to expand and contract with temperature, yet its anchored at both ends, so its going to flex and bow in the middle like a railroad in the Texas summer heat .
Unlike many famous pictures of buckled rails, you won't be able to see it,visually but it will to some degree.
Time will tell how it holds up. But theoretically it shouldn't blow out catastrophically like when the PA66 nylon one weakens. The metal one will more likely just leak when the RTV sealant deteriorates and can no longer cope with the flexing.
The company producing these is apparently a shoestring operation and we can't expect them to have the resources to install them on a test engine and simulate 100K miles.
The first few people on the forum to install them ARE their test mules. Thanks to Dennis and Bydand for your work on this.
Damn Pdupler, You set some high engineering standards. (Some may say normal and expected in the olden days) But I digress.
It was one of the things I was considering as well, see the previous thread in totality.
I feel the contact area, of both haves of the casting and the securing screws of both halves of the Alloy castings can manage the changing thermal loads from both cylinder head outlets, and the return and the feed to the heater, With a good RTV sealant.
Having replaced the sealant, and now the securing screws, I am sure it will be better than the original Plastic, or have a much reduced leakage which will be manageable, as you have suggested.
Sorry.
"The company producing these is apparently a shoestring operation and we can't expect them to have the resources to install them on a test engine and simulate 100K miles."
Do you mean JLR who make the plastic failure CW pipes front and back, or the Chinese company making the Alloy copy, with poor QA, which you can DIY and make something which works and is more reliable.
12-01-2023, 02:20 AM
2012 Jaguar XF water pump upgrade
