So who tuned the car and what was the cost?

 

The tuner is Jailbreak Tuning. They are relatively new company (working on website now - will be jailbreaktuning.com), but for now here is their Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Jailb...06478759443969

They have been in the tuning world for a while now. They tune for GSR Autosport who does a lot of BMW's and also companies like BBI, who do a lot of really high end Porsche builds and HG Motorsports in San Diego. You can find dyno runs on YouTube as well. Their phone number is 978-600-8863. Let them know I referred you and they will definitely take care of you.

They have set the cost at $1,200. Two reflashes for free. Customer pays insured shipping for the laptop and tool there and back for initial and any reflashes. I also checked with them and the top speed limiter is for all intents and purposes removed (it's now at 210 mph).

I'll be getting my pulley put on at GSR tomorrow morning and then have final dyno results on Saturday. Should be a better day weather wise than last time, so power should be up. Will be doing the valve delete on the mufflers, but not sure it will be done before the dyno session. I'll have them post the dyno run on YouTube and then provide a link.

Then I can finally just relax and enjoy the ride!

Brian

 

Hey Kyanite XFR, was yours an ECU Tune only or both ECU and TCU Tune?

 

Quick Update:

So Tuner X was my local tuner, they did an ECU and TCU flash for the aforementioned $1,500 cdn. And I had said the weather in Calgary has been less than ideal, hence I truly couldn't get a feel for any improvement, as any step on the gas and the car would start to slip and slide...

So I managed to get it on a dyno yesterday in lieu of Friday (today)... Gonna have a busy day today, and was eager to see the results...

I had a call early yesterday that the car is not behaving as it did the last two times it was on their dyno... no matter what they do it constantly keeps downshifting.. something they did not have a problem with before. I said well I imagine the TCU tune is affecting how aggressive your shifts are...

They would be in 4th gear and anything past 60% throttle would automatically cause it to shift to 2nd gear.

They tried 3rd gear and it did the same thing...

Final call by the owner of the shop and dyno operator, the car is currently not able to be dyno'd...

I call the shop that did the tune, and let them know, and they contact the dyno shop and trouble shoot with them...

I am out of town on work, but driving back to town... I go pick up my car... I have a nice bill from the dyno shop, for the time they had to spend, no charge for the dyno, but charge for all trouble shooting that they did... Final discussion with the owner is his own honest opinion is I would have the car returned to stock, and maybe do one thing at a time... His concern was regarding how the car could no longer be kept in manual mode... He has dyno'd the car twice, and driven it several times, and he said, the way it behaved on the dyno was unlike anything it did before, and he believes its not for the better... his concern ultimately lied in the fact that you are in manual mode (dynamic on and in Sport mode with the paddle shifters), and he gives me a scenario where you are going around a corner in 3rd gear, and you have it held , and all of sudden you punch it at anything below 4500rpm the car will now down shift even if you have it held in that particular gear, his comment was: "its like they have disabled a feature of the stock car". I drove it over to the tuner's shop, and its a 10 min drive, and sure enough I put in dynamic mode and in "S"port mode and held the gear in 3rd, and punched it, it automatically down-shifted!!! to 2nd every single time. As I had said roads aren't ideal, and haven't been for the past 1.5 weeks... so you can only imagine how much fun that was (luckily I was going straight and not in the middle of a turn)...

I get to the tuning shop (Seeing Red). I talk to the owner, and tell him what would you do if you were in my shoes? He proceeds to tell me that he has an ECU Tune ready for me to load on Monday, it will be ECU only and TCU will be taken out, and he will pay for the Re-dyno... I say thanks but no thanks, I have seen enough... I will bring it in next week and have it flashed back to stock, please refund my money, and I'm not going to ask for you pay for the charges I endured today at the dyno shop, as you wasted their time and mine, but if you truly value your client base you would at least offer to pay a portion of that bill... I will find out next week how this is handled...

So for me its back to the drawing board... I have to settle on one of two tuners... Rica or ETG...

Rica:
Pros
-Convenience of hand held tuner provided to me (so no hassles with re-flashing)
- Cost is less
- I have had great success with them in the past on other vehicles

Cons
- No proven dyno runs for this particular car
- No forum feedback with other members that have had great success with this tune (with the exception of one member JgaXkr)


ETG:
Pros
- Proven dyno results by multiple forum members for our specific vehicle and other platforms that use the same engine (F-Type, XJ, XKR, etc...)
- My dealings with Jags (owner) and the local to me dealer have been great thus far

Cons
- Cost is greater (~$1,800 vs $1,225 all in)
- Local dealer is approximately 3 hrs drive from my location, which would make re-tunes or any hassles somewhat problematic...

 

Sorry for your troubles...I imagine that is extremely frustrating.

Why did you rule out Eurocharged? I met them here in Houston and my car was given top notch service. It pulls very hard through out the RPM range and I put down 540 RWHP on a dyno dynamics.

I also talked with Jags at ETG at length several times before going with Eurcharged.

Car has been perfect for months, no problems and I am very happy!

Best of luck.

 

Matt, did you ever post a dyno chart? I've saved a few from the posts but I've forgotten which one(s) belonged to what member. If not, can you do so? Would really appreciate it.

 

I'm sure Matt will reply as well, but here's my before and after dyno charts from my Eurocharged tune as well (2 pre-tune & pulley runs on the first sheet and 2 post-tune and pulley runs on the second sheet).

 

Here is the whole thread of my Eurocharged experience, including before and after dynos.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...charts-105538/

 

Your transmission downshifting seems normal to me. My car does the same on the dyno. I would have to start around 3500-4000 rpm then floor it to prevent it from downshifting. If you search the forums, I believe there's a few other members on this forum that ran into this problem also..

 

See its dyno graphs like this that don't tell me a whole lot...

I have ruled out Eurocharged, based on my own research, anyone who has their tune and is happy, then props to you...

But some of the stuff I have seen on their website, and this forum, and other forums, has me just shaking my head...

 

I read through your forum, and it looks like you actually got some great gains...

and for a change the dyno charts for before and after, actually look like they are believable...

Unfortunately at this point I have seen too much crap from them that one legitimate, and great looking dyno graph, will not undo all the crap I have read and seen...

Again, if you're happy with their product then great, but given my communication with Eurocharged, didn't inspire me or fill me with confidence, in fact it was quite off putting... I discussed with my Canadian dealer why their website, states different hp and torque gains for different platforms (XF vs XJ vs XK, etc), assuming they all have the same 5.0 S/C engine, gains should be quite similar...

And worse the dyno graph they post, for the XF(R), isn't too inspiring... and according to them those are gains with a 2.5psi pulley, and I don't like how they revert to crank horsepower, in lieu of just reporting what the dyno says as whp... XF (R) : Jaguar XF / XFR 5.0 Stage 1 Power Package

The explanation and discussion had with them, has been beyond disappointing. Also they are located across the country from me. They had mentioned they were going to be heading out to the Western provinces (specifically BC), and I have been waiting on an email to confirm for over 2 months... They wouldn't ship their laptop to me, which is more than I can say for any other tuner that I have spoken to.

 

Actually the car has been on the dyno twice already, and the dyno operator has been able to generate repeatable runs with pulls from 2000rpm, by basically rolling into throttle, vs just laying into it.

The difference is, anytime he rolled into throttle (after the TCU Tune) and he was in 4th, once he got to 60% throttle position, it would automatically downshift to 2nd... that is not normal...

I know a lot of people had their issues with dynoing their cars, but if you know how to roll into throttle, you can get some great runs... This is no longer the case with my car, it clearly behaves completely differently than before... not just on the dyno but in daily driving, as I am still waiting for the tuner to flash me back to stock, now that it has been brought to my attention, it has become quite annoying...

 

I hear ya...Well I hope everything gets worked out for you! What a pain to have to deal with.

I am lucky because Eurocharged HQ is in my home town. I also had some communication issues with them via email last year. Then I was about to go with ETG but after talking with Jags and doing my own research on the forums I decided against it. He could not provide any dynos at all for the XKR-S yet he told me they have tuned several of them. I told him get me a dyno and I would buy the tune, but he never got back with me. Plus they charge almost double for a very similar tune from what I have seen.

I understand your concerns but if the tune is anything like the one on my car, you will be extremely happy. Good luck in your quest!

 

H. Jones, we all want to be comfortable with the work that is done on our cars, and I completely respect your decision in that regard, but I am curious, what is it about the dyno charts from my XF that troubles you? I appreciate your feedback.

 

"MarylandJag", I appreciate you understanding that at the end of the day this has to do with my comfort level for what I want How were they getting rpm signal off of your car?

Stock you are pulling upto 6500rpm, and I can't say that I have seen this on most other curves...

How often on a daily basis are you driving past 4000rpm? The fact that they have given you a stock dyno plot that tells you what your power output is from: ~4400rpm to 6500rpm that isn't really an indication of what your power band is...

My dyno's go from ~2000rpm to 6200rpm...
Matt in Houston's dyno goes from ~2250rpm to 6200rpm...

I just don't know how you can look at your dyno graph and get a full picture of what your car is doing, you get half a picture...

If I went to a dyno shop and paid for a dyno, and they handed me a graph that looked like yours, I would ask for the rest of my dyno...

The after numbers when compared to the before numbers look great...
123+WHP and 101+WTQ gain, what's not to like...

But I don't have a lot of faith in the numbers... I know yours is a S/C so realistically you'll see greater gains than an R or R-S but given in my opinion the dyno was never ran properly... You stomping on the accelerator at ~3500rpm and watching your torque spike, isn't what you should be after... I don't have alot of faith in whomever ran the car on the dyno, and no faith in whom ever setup the graph (axis)

Your A/F for stock and tuned do a great job of hitting that 13.0 yet most others I have seen, seem to peg low 10.5's (stock), and everyone comments on how rich these cars run stock...

At the end, if it was only one item on its own you would overlook it, but the more you keep adding them up, it just isn't a dyno chart that I would put a lot of faith in...

 

H. Jones,

Thanks for the reply and explanation. I'll give you a few of my thoughts, which might address a couple of the points you raised and might provide a little bit of information for others who are interested in these upgrades and comparing the options that are available.

I think the tach reading is accurate. The rev limiter on our engines is 6750rpm and the car was in manual mode when the dyno runs were done so it would not upshift. They simply performed the run up to the rev limiter. As far as the dyno chart showing just the upper end of the rpm range, that was the result of my request after reading information in this forum. The dyno run starts around 3500rpm because that's the point when you can go full throttle without the transmission downshifting (confirmed in real world driving). I discussed this with the folks at Eurocharged before they did the run and actually asked them to go easy on the throttle up to 3500rpm and then open it up. I did not think we were likely to get accurate numbers below 3500rpm by trying to get the throttle just right and keep it below the downshift trigger. It does appear that a few others have been able to roll into the throttle at lower rpms without the transmission downshifting for their dyno runs, which is great to know.

Also, I realize the dyno charts use different numbers on the vertical axis, but I think this is simply how the software adjusts those axis measures based upon the numbers that appear on the chart. They gave me the first graph after they ran the initial pulls and the second one later on. I should have requested the before and after on the same graph, but unfortunately, I did not.

On the AFRs, I asked Jerry at Eurocharged whether he thought they were safe numbers (in part because I saw others running rich). He indicated the same thing he told others as well, which is that he does not alter the stock AFR settings. At a minimum, it appears from the before and after dyno charts that the AFRs mirror each other almost exactly. The car did not leave the dyno during the tune and pulley install, so the sniffer and all other aspects of the dyno setup were exactly the same for both runs. I was also present for the entire install process (they welcomed my presence and spent a lot of time talking to me about other cars and projects in their shop).

Of course, the car feels much more powerful in everyday driving and it has retained its easy drive-ability. FWIW, I also have Palmer Performance's Dash Command App, OBDII dongle, and Scan XL software. While I would certainly trust a properly set-up dyno over the information from the Dash Command software, it has been very consistent in the readings it has provided. After comparing multiple run files from before and after the pulley and tune, the hp and torque improvements are consistent with the results shown on the dyno runs performed by Eurocharged. I have also been able to see considerable improvement in some time to speed/distance runs.

At the end of the day, I think these exchanges on this forum are constructive and helpful to those who are considering similar modifications (I know it was for me before I had my work done). It also helped that a Eurocharged shop was near me and I had an opportunity to stop in a couple months before the work was done - you can tell a lot just by being able to check a place out in person. Hopefully, everyone finds the right tune for them.

 

So did my final Dyno run today, after tune:

Final numbers:



Final numbers vs pulley & exhaust:



Final numbers vs pulley & exhaust vs stock:



Sorry for the crappy pics... All I have is the printouts, when I get a copy emailed to me I'll update this thread...

 

So finally got digital copies from Dyno shop... Much easier to read in comparison to the grainy photos I took on Friday...

So first off is all the Dyno runs made this past Friday (overlapped):




This is all three stages overlapping (stock vs. pulley/exhaust vs. tune/pulley/exhaust):




To see the effects of the tune, this is stock tune with pulley & exhaust vs final numbers:




To see overall effect of all additions, this is stock vs final numbers:




It doesn't get any clearer than that...

Overall I was very happy with the addition of the pulley, the power delivery wad greatly improved, and if I had one desire by adding the tune was to prevent torque drop off in the upper rpm... Well I got that along with even more torque down low and minor bump in the midrange and the real bonus is the improved AFR.

Overall very happy with the final results...

 

In fairness, the way that chart reads is MY fault.

First, I wasn't clear with them to do the dyno before and after the pulley. So the initial run was with the pulley already on. I think the 2.5 psi pulley might be a typo as I think they only offer the 1.5 psi (yes, they should have fixed it before posting.)

Last, I was the one that asked for crank power HP not Wheel. He wanted to put wheel and crank on the base run so that I could see the transmission loss.

Just don't want the shop getting blamed for my foibles.

 

Now that I'm thinking about it.. I might get another dyno run done as I've now added the Mina Exhaust. If I do I will post up the numbers / chart and try to get the errors on the old one fixed.