2013 Jaguar XF

Take a look.....wonder what a 4 cyl XF will go for? Any educated guesses?

 

No idea on price, BMW 3 series, Audi A4, Citroen C5.

With the tax situation in Europe seeming to be based on displacement I can see the logic.

But diesel is king over here, so why bother with a small petrol version? Can't imagine anyone choosing to buy one for business use.

What I don't really see is the need for an 8 speed auto-box. Some of those gears must be very close together.

 

And very, very small due to having to fit into the same form factor. Add "sealed for life" and we know the result.

 

A risky proposition from a marketing perspective imho. Has Jaguar ever had a four-cylinder engine before? (Since the prewar and immediate postwar eras I mean.) The name is synonymous with performance and as much as I like efficiency I don't know but that the brand will be damaged--in the US market anyway.

Agree on the 8-spd. Mo' gears mo' problems. And ever-present shifting. At some point just do away with it and use a CVT (oops there goes performance). I think 6 speeds are generally enough but the fuel-mileage 'sweet spot' on my XJ8 was about 65mph and on my 7-spd V8 Mercedes almost 75mph. So with highway speeds faster than ever nowadays we either need an extra gear or they need to space the ratios a tad more generously. Eight speeds sounds suspiciously like a bragging-rights thing.

 

I think they are following BMW's road (and maybe others). BMW has the 528, and they and other have the ZF 8 speed which helps with fuel economy, or so they say. It is very smooth in the 5 series.

 

They are coming. Turbo technology is still producing gains. F1 is going back to turbos but, oddly, V6 engines of 1.5 liters.

Fours are about half the weight of an 8 which improves handling.

The 8 spd auto is here to stay. Ratios aren't much tighter but the top two gears are taller. Think of it as a 6 spd with two overdrive ratios. Size of the gearsets can be smaller if the effective ratio is lower and planetary gearsets are less stressed to begin with. Durability won't be an issue.

 

I have just added a 2012 BMW 528i to my garage (for precisely the purpose of reducing fuel consumption on my 60 mile daily round trip to the office), alongside the Jag, and I can confirm that a 4 cylinder engine with an 8 speed automatic does work well. Assuming that the Jag engine will have the same characteristics as the BMW engine, i.e. turbo and max. torque coming in at low revs (1250 rpm in BMW's case), you will be very surprised at how lively the car will feel. The 5 series is a little lighter than the XF (3800 lbs in 528i guise) but Car and Driver got a 0 to 60 time of 5.9 seconds for the 528i. Hardly something to be sneezed at.

As indicated Jag need these engines to compete with Audi and BMW (MB have yet to enter the fray with an E series offering with a 4 cylinder engine in the US market) and if the XF is anything like as good as the BMW, it will provide fast, fun and economical transport but with the Jag cachet. My guess is that it will be cheaper than BMW and Audi as well, since a BMW 528i equipped to try and match the current XF Premium is more expensive and still lacks the cooled seats, rear window shades, V8 engine etc...... A BMW 550i (which has the V 8 410 bhp turbo) will cost you $15K more when equipped to match an XF Premium Portfolio.

Anyway I write this to indicate that we Jag fans need not worry about the direction Jag is taking.

 

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Pre-war, the four cylinder Jaguar was the biggest seller, and carried factory costs so the sixes could be sold at an attractive price yet be profitable. The fours never made much money for Jaguar, but allowed costs to be spread over more cars. The engine was a basic Standard engine, and actually 1.7 litres. BMW, Mercedes, and Audi all rely on their lower price fours to do the same thing, spread out the costs, it is Jaguar that is out of line, (until now, with the new diesel fours, and probably a petrol S/Charged coming along).

 

VERY interesting conversation gentlemen! My Audi Cabriolet had the 2.0T which is eminently chippable although I kept it stock. Frankly it had all the power I needed; however it did strain a bit a couple times when I needed to make a light

I have no doubt that 4-cylinder engines can make the grade, especially with forced induction, but it was indeed marketing 'cachet' I was referring to. Just wondering how it will sell in the USA where bigger is (almost) always better. I wish Jaguar would twin it with an electric motor for a different kind of bragging rights! But doubtless you guys are right that if Jaguar's competitors have 4-cyl then Jaguar should too. Although at present Jaguar does not offer an 'entry-level' model (which I like--it maintains exclusivity--but the bean counters surely dislike).

Now where is that stupid DeLorean quote? Aww crap I can't find it

 

Saw that Jag has a prototype XJ with an electric assist engine giving really great mileage. Could you imagine that....a XF four twin turbo with and an e-motor assist pulling in nearly 90mpg on the highway with an 8 speed tranny. Interesting times for the auto industry. I am glad Jag is in the hunt with technology again.

Thanks for the interesting posts.

 

The best selling version of the X Type was a 4 cyl diesel.

 

Right, but of course we Merkins didn't get that one.

 

You could ask for two fours to be installed?

 

I seem to recall that Jaguar was best known for its in line 6 (E Type, XK120 etc.), much as BMW has had the same sort of reputation in more recent years.

I know that 4 cylinders are a great emotional step in the wrong direction for some of us (especially in the US where, as was said, big means better) but I think it is inevitable. We need to use less fuel and, to do that, the engines have to become more efficient. We also, probably, need to give up our quest for more and more horsepower and torque. After all regulations will soon make it illegal to go faster than a walking man holding a red flag in front of you.....

 

You guys lost me at 4 cylinders

It has to be v8
I want v8
You can not handle v8

 

Yep the six was where it was at and Jaguar's six among the most legendary (and beautiful I might add). Part of me was sorry to see them switch to a V8 even though V8s are awesome... similarly when Aston replaced its (also legendary) supercharged six with a V12... they had to do what the market wanted, but it was cool seeing them do so well (and perfectly adequately imho) with an inline six. And yes BMW made its rep on a great inline-six design. Even Mercedes with its 280 and 300 models back in the day. And I admired the Acura (Honda) NSX sticking to a six.

Well, even four-bangers can easily hit 120mph. The main impending regs I'm aware of are about fuel mileage, not speed. In fact, many places the highway speed limits are as high or higher than they've ever been. Which we like

If only we could get ten million other cars (and tractor-trailers) off the road so we could enjoy it.

Woohoo an American! Aww crap I can't find an American Flag smiley

 

Interesting reading...confirms the Turbo 4-cyl and 6-cyl options coming in 2013.

2013 Jaguar XF and XJ Sedans Add New Engines, Eight-Speed Gearbox

 

Aston Martin built dohc inline sixes but never supercharged. Aston Martin became known for its V8 engines from the DBS on.

You are thinking maybe of the DB7 which was Ford's idea of an Aston Martin. They put a pretty Ian Callum body onto the Jaguar XJS platform and slipped in the Jaguar AJ6 with aggressive cams and a manual gearbox.

Later Ford used Jaguar platforms to build the DB9 and the V8 vantage. The V12 was two DuratecV6 cast in one block, beautiful engine but a Ford. The V8 vantage was a bored and stroked Jaguar AJV8 built in Cologne Germany. Yes Victoria those Aston Martins have just been Jaguars since the 80's.

 

Well you are picking nits but I take your point as far as it goes.

I will henceforth delete the term "legendary" with regard to Aston's inline six.

Aston Martin DB7

Ford saved Aston Martin from complete ruin, even more so than Jaguar.

Nonetheless you may be interested to know my favorite Aston is a DB4.



Do you call Bugattis and Lamborghinis "Volkswagens"?