2012 Initial Quality Study Press Release | J.D. Power

Seems to me that j d power puts Jaguar ahead of Audi by a long way.

Mercedes does just pip BMW some way ahead of Audi but well behind Jaguar.

I've got files of work orders proving my S4 is pretty much crap compared to my XF. The Jaguar is much cheaper, cost about the same in 2008 as the Audi did in 2001.

I've seen the claims for output of the S4 motor but not the dyno sheets or correction factors used to calculate the claims. 500 whp on stock internals of an S4 engine is just a time bomb, not an engine you can drive every day.

Facts are inconvenient when you begin with a predisposition: you seem hopelessly biased in favour of your obsolete manual transmission and wish to be talked into the automatic. However, when the facts are communicated you deny them.

 

Do you really like the XFR? Do you have any interest in purchasing it, because it seems to me that you don't.

First, it's stupid to go on a forum and ask for opinions on purchasing a product.

You know why? You will have people saying go ahead and make the switch and others who will say the opposite. Where does that leave you?....back to making your own decision.

Second, 09XFSUPER (who loves manual trasmissions) concluded on buying the XFR. Followed by me, Darlo, Bruce H and others.

After all of the balanced and helpful comments, you are still asking for people's opinions. You drove the car. Do you like it? If you do, then go buy it.

 

Yes, I do - in fact I'm going to make an offer on one tomorrow morning when the dealer opens. 2010 black with red interior.

Yup, you're 100% right. I suppose I'm just testing the waters to see how passionate this group is about their cars. My fellow Lotus and Audi owners are extremely passionate about their cars, probably to a fault.

By "all of the" you mean the 2 or 3 different people that replied? This thread would be 6 pages on LotusTalk.com by now (in fact my thread there on this topic is much longer/more helpful)

Nope, I haven't - that's the issue. I've driven the XF Supercharged so I've been in the interior but not at night yet (really think the interior lighting is going to push me over the edge). The one I'm looking at has the illuminated door sills, etc. I'm going to meet someone in south Denver (about 100 miles from me) next week so I can check his out. I won't ask to drive it but if he offers I'll take him up on it.

Wow man, you've said some pretty amazingly stupid statements in this thread but no other shows how much you "don't get it" than that statement. It has NOTHING to do with technology, speed, performance, etc. It has to do with my connection to the car - period. I want to heel-toe it and do my Audi everytime I drive it. I borrowed a friends E63 AMG for a week and it not having a manual really hurt the "experience" of driving it. Yes, it shifts faster than I can. Yes, it's more "modern" technology. What you seem to not understand is I DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT. This isn't my track car, I don't care if it can shift in 100ms and I can only do it in 1000ms. That 9/10ths isn't going to get me to work any later. I'm simply trying to ask - those of you that feel like me, how bad was it giving up the manual. That's it, simple.

 

I win.

Last resort is the ad hominem attack.

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

At least you're entertaining. If you feel like you "win" good for you. I suppose we all need to feel that we win something. Hopefully now that you've "won" you'll stop spewing crap here. Somehow I doubt it.

Anyone else want to provide any other relevant input?

 

I have a 2010 SC.

I have owned as daily driivers:
2008 BMW 335i coupe Manual
2001 Audi s4 (chipped) Manual
1993 (3rd Gen) RX-7 Heavily modded (scary car) Obviously Manual
83 VW Scirroco Manual
78 VW Rabbit Manual

I also have owned an AC Cobra with a worked 351 Windsor with a 5 speed Tremec (scarier car)

I enjoy manual shifting and the "connection" to the driving experience and the drivetrain, a nicely meshed downshift, etc etc.

I don't miss manual shifting in my Jag. It is an amazing machine with all sorts of attributes to enjoy. I occasionally put it in S and Dynamic...but mainly drive it in plain old "D" and its a gas most times I do.

Don't mind Jagular...he is a man of his convictions!

 

We're a relatively small group here... heck, I have a technical thread on a Supra forum that's 34 pages long with 841 responses and 103,500 views! I think most thoroughly enjoy JF, and find it helpful. And we do need more members with experience and enthusiasm for tracking their Jaaags
Bruce

 

LotusExige,

I apologize. Most of the ruckus was my fault due to almost online high-fiving you for having an awesome car.

Id actually like to chat with you over PM as I seem to be in the same EXACT boat as you are.

Before I go, Jagular.
MTM hasnt properly built a B5 S4 in 5+ years.

Here are 2 (out of the MANY 600WHP+) S4 builds.
Feast your eyes boys...
AMD 770R: MS109 Base Tune 666whp - Clutch Slip & 1.8 sec GPS Verified FATS

gearhead1186's EPL Tial 605->770->HTA2868 .64 Build

 

I abide by comments above and I have owned a BMW e39 M5 6spd and BMW e36 M3 sedan 5spd, I enjoy driving the XF as much as either of those and the interior/exterior is much more pleasing.

LotusExige, perhaps this helps you perhaps it doesn't. Good luck in your search for the right car for you.

 

Haven't been back on the forum in a while since getting my XF SC. Felt like I had to pop on and respond to this though, and get my year's worth of ranting in one post. Not sure why everyone has to be so defensive to someone's comments just because they disagree or it is negative against their car, jagular's comments always seem to be well formed, backed with related info, and as valid as anyone else's opinions to me .

I came from owning nothing but manuals for the past 4 cars, last being an Evo X GSR, and recently popped in a loaner X MR and an M3 to see if I missed that type of car at all. In short, they are very fun but, I was happy to get back to my XF for the ride home.

Yes, rowing gears is fun and if you can't get your kicks rowing one on the toy car (I get mine on a ZX10R and thinking of picking up an mr2 project car) on track days by all means pass on the XFR and get an M5 or something, I was shopping between both myself at the time. If you're passionate about an all around, kidneys-in-your-seat experience during your day to day shuffles but want all the amenities, comfort, and frankly the bling then the XF's are a good choice.

Obviously can't pivot around the on/off ramps at ridiculous Evo speeds but it's still got plenty and more of grip and go for enjoyment and it's still a great feeling once you get down the motions of smoothly flipping on dynamic mode, twisting the knob to S and popping the down paddle 1 or 2 times. For me that replaced the satisfaction of rowing, along with popping into sport for manual downshifts at the light, popping into neutral when my inner adolescent can't get enough of the rev-rev so I can blip all I want while I left foot brake to the light, etc. In my mind all of that nullified the "gotta have a manual to enjoy it" thoughts I had and points you mentioned when I picked up mine. I felt like you could get almost all the same fun out of it, just had to do it differently with knobs and buttons instead of a stick. I'm an IT geek myself so challenge accepted. Sure on some occasions I've been left cursing at the ZF for not shifting down as far as I wanted to, or misunderstanding my attempt to lazily pass for something more aggressive, but that's my fault for trading off the manual shifting to setting it in D so I can be lazy in traffic. At least I had that option. Also if something like an RS4 or M5 rolls by, I may be sticking my head out the window oogling but most people wouldn't know the difference with the mundane and plentiful A4's, 535's, or whatever. For some reason the XF always gets more compliments than other cars I've been in, it just has a bit more presence and was quite rare at the time.

It's definitely a car you can be passionate about and I feel like it'll hold its own for quite a while. It's definitely biased to be a great every day car vs. a collector's toy though. Hope any of that helped, good luck.

 

The Black Knight effect. It just keeps getting better.

 

I miss having a manual transmission, but I have been missing it for 14 years. I am probably going to buy a 2 door ragtop 5/6 speed car after I do my taxes this year assuming there will be anything left over. The Jaguar does such a good job, I find myself driving it in S, with Dynamic Mode on and Traction Control completely turned off 99% of the time shifting it with the paddles. Unfortunately it just makes the itch worse.

I spent a week in Cancun in October and drove a 5spd manual Chevy Matiz@! for the entire week including a few road trips, Playa Del Carmen twice and Chichen Itza. The car was terrible but I loved rowing the gears so much I didn't care.

 

Subaru BRZ/Scion FRS.

Slow but extremely fun to drive. Cheap to buy and presumably cheap to run.

Use the Jaguar for the daily driver and the Subota for windy roads on the weekend. It will also make a great little casual track car. Or the MX5 (Miata)k one of the sweetest handling steers on the planet. Corner at 100 km/hr (60 mph) and feel like a hero. Drive a Porsche that slowly and you're just another middle aged zero looking for a date.

 

VERY helpful comments, just what I was looking for. Question - so you can pop it into neutral pretty easy to get a little rev-rev when you want? Can you do that with the paddles or just the selector knob?

 

While I agree the BRZ is a cool/fun car do you read anything others post? I already have what I consider the best streetable track car built, a Lotus Exige. Not looking for a track car, looking for a daily driver. Ugh.

 

It does, thanks!

 

You have to be a midget to get into and out of an Exige. With the Subie or Mazda even an old feller can get in and out without looking a ****.

The ZF gearbox can be moved from N to D and back again easily using the selector, as for almost all automatics. You can't shift out of gear using the paddles, nor can you select reverse or park. Sounds like you not only prefer manual shifts you can't actually drive an automatic, which is a bit worrying. The R is for reverse, just so you know.

The rev-rev reference is a little mystifying. Surely you can't be referring to revving the engine up and down in neutral, while stationary? I mean, really?

I really don't think you're a Jaguar man, you won't like the way they drive at all. Stick with the hair shirt, you'll be happier.

 

Hopefully as soon as Lotus buys his XFR, we can ALL relax into a spirited, friendly, respectful banter as we want to expand this forum by having new members and keep our existing members.

 

Yes even from a slow roll you can switch to N, rev, back to D and keep rolling. I'm sure the more mature owners are squirming but the transmission handles it gracefully as long as you let it wind down to a reasonable rpm before reengaging. It sorts itself out before going.

To each their own, the xfr really sounds nice I wouldn't blame you for wanting to do that every now and then but it blips beautifully on its own if you just tap the paddles down. That's the beauty of it to me, this car panders to a wide range of people.

Can't do it with the paddles that I'm aware of, and switching from S all the way to N is a little more tricky. Would have been nice to force neutral by holding both paddles or something but no such luck.

 

One thing I don't like, I want the DSC "Dynamic Stability Control" OFF and when you move between modes say to nuetral for a little rev (4,000 rpm limit) and go back to S (Sport) DSC comes back on and you have to turn it off again which takes a long 30 seconds of holding a button down. Trac-DCS just takes 5 seconds or so but still limits how fast you can destroy your tires.