Guys, if you don't mind take a moment and read this topic . This sounds promising according to a forum member and already got feedbacks

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Thanks

Brake Dust: A Problem That's Not Really a Problem - NYTimes.com

And , it was first posted at XK Forums :
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...etition-68868/

 

Thanks for pointing this one out. It is one of the first realistic mainstream media article I have seen. It is also a subtle attack on the way J.D. Powers measures quality. e.g. Once I found out that their so called quality index included the average persons ability to use the controls, I gave up on them and completely ignored their ratings. If we depended on J. D. Power ratings all cars would never change, since any change, however small, results in some adverse customer reaction. This is then reflected in their quality ratings.

To me quality is a measure of how well a system behaves according to its initial design criteria and not whether you like the design criteria. So a malfunction is a quality issue and difficulty understanding the menus on a screen is not. If liking the way a thing looks or works was part of quality, Cadillac would be at the bottom of my list, but my judgement is subjective and thus not relevant. Which is exactly what problems like usability of controls and brake dust are, not relevant.

As another example, BMW's iDrive was panned universally by the press and drivers who blogged, but I had no problem with it (mainly because I am a computer professional) and so their opinion was of no consequence to me, yet it moved BMW down the quality index. BMW are not that good with quality, but I needed to know how often it would be back in the shop for repairs and not whether I would struggle to use their iDrive.

Anyway, a good post and thank you. Makes me feel that there are actually sane people in the world.

 

Hate the brake dust for cosmetic reasons. Many highline car owners just drive their cars and never wash this stuff off and then it stains the wheels.

I have owned the following cars with NOOOOOO brake dust and brakes that work just fine: 300C, Volt, Escalade, and Optima Kia.

I have never been able to figure out what brake pads they are using from the factory and how to get them for my other cars. If you just go buy top of the line ceramic pads from somewhere like NAPA, they dust almost as much as stock. EBC greens were low dust on my Viper GTS, but almost just as dusty on my XJ8L. Hawk pads were suppose to be super low dust and messed up my 911 wheels just as bad.

Add me to the list of people that find the whole thing frustrating, because I know for a fact that we don't need this headache since other cars don't have it.

If you own a light car like silver or white, the car never looks dirty from rain or regular dust if the wheels are clean of brake dust (unless you go mudding all the time).

I like a clean car, but I have better things to do every day than clean the wheels.

So has anyone found a no-dust pad for the XF?

 

Yes but have you ever tried to stop any of those good looking dustless cars? From 100 mph? Thought not.

 

Some Losers in Consumer Reports Reliability Survey Are Winners in Showrooms - NYTimes.com

In the "so what" category. Consumers can't be trusted to evaluate engineering matters. But they apparently also disregard J D Power. Maybe they should add a question to their list: do you care what we think?

 

I agree one hundred percent! Especially, with the JD Powers rating system. I never took them seriously and never will.
The sad part is, there are lot of people in this world who actually worship those guys.

Every econobox rolling off Honda's product line has 5 star crash rating. What does a real sedan like Jaguar XF has, if Honda has 5 star? If one was to crash them both head to head, the person in the Honda would have to be helicoptered off to a hospital.

Anyways, JD Powers is a joke.

 

Sadly, the XF rates lower than the Honda. You should realize that today's Honda Accord is a huge car compared to its original model. Jaguar made some in production improvements but it is still only four star rated. Accident avoidance ability is not rated unfortunately. That is what I use to decide on a car purchase.

 

You're joking right? You don't think those cars can stop from 100mph?

 

Of course. Just lifting off the gas they will eventually stop.

 

I've driven 911's for years and their brake pads produce half the dust as Jags do and stop exceptionally well. There have been many TSB's issued for low dust pads by Lexus, MB etcetc and these card stop quite well. There is no reason Jaguar cannot offer a similar type pad

 

Thanks for the positive feedback. Hop over to the XK8 forum and look at the responses to the same thread there...kinda sad.

check this out: http://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w2...t-no-more.html

 

I never bother with Powers or any other index, but I'll admit idiocy like that does manage to irk me.

BTW, brake dust on the wheels is also a function of air flow. If more air goes inward underneath the car the brake dust will follow that path so seemingly there is less dust. But at the end of the day I am not sure I like that idea any better.

Either way, I like the combination of feel/response/power of the XF brakes. I have had cars with harder brakes and less dust (but more disc wear), usually accompanied by more effort needed and less easily modulated brakes (read abrupt). With DSC that is not quite the issue it was but for passengers' comfort it still counts.

 

+1 I've tried many different pads on my prior cars, Mintex (red box), Axxis Deluxe Plus, Axxis Ultmates, Stoptech Street pads, and a couple others I can't recall at this time. The conclusion was that I liked the Ultimates the best, as they stopped at least as good as OEM BMW, had a larger heat envelope and yet also had excellent cold (first) bite, but they still dusted. Not as much as the stock brakes, but still dusted.

The Deluxe Pluses were nearly dust free (and what dust there was you couldn't really see, as it's grey color, blending in with silver wheels). But stopping power, especially when cold or driven for a while on the highway (and thus cooled down some) seemed inversely proportional to the dust. The more dust-free, the worse the bite. I went to the Ultimates after a few close calls.

That said, I think the XFR's brakes are great for sustained heavy use, but feel overboosted and too touchy in normal street driving. So I would actually consider using the Deluxe Pluses in this car, if they were available, so as to provide a bit more feel and reduce the tendency of the brakes to feel grabby. DP's have good fade resistance, it's just their initial bite isn't that great, but on a car whose brakes feel overboosted/too touchy to begin with, these might be ideal. So far I haven't found any for this car, however, and my '11 has the maintenance plan included, so I will keep with OEM and just be cleaning my wheels more often, I suppose.

 

Pad material colour determines how dusty the wheels look.

All non ceramic brake system pads give off dust, that's why they wear out.

Porsche brakes are not comparable to jaguar brakes. No luxury car owner would tolerate Porsche brakes on his or her car. One of the main reasons the Porsche sports cars stop so well is their goofy drivetrain layout which directs more braking force to the rear wheels. I don't think the Panamera outbrakes the XFR.

 

As I said above airflow has a lot to do with it. Look at different wheels and you will see that some designs catch more dust than others, sitting on the same car. (Literally, like being swopped between summer and winter tyres.)