Every time I pick up a car mag and Jaguar is pitted against BMW, Merc etc,
I already know Jaguar is going to be near the bottom if it's performance based. I don't understand the executives that are fine with this at Jaguar year after year. Look Jaguar, your new XFR-S will also be underpowered against the M5 when it comes out. Here's a idea you can have for free.
I don't know the relationship you still have with Ford, but I'd purchase the 650hp motors used in the Mustang from Ford (save the research, development and certification cost of a new motor). I'd then detune it to around 580hp for the XFR and have plenty of room for the XFR-S. Jaguar, stop being content with coming in last!!!! Oh, I own a 2010 XFR and love it. But after reading that the 542hp is the same as the 470hp, just some tweaking separates the 3 (470, 510, 542), why didn't Jaguar just give the XFR the best effort to begin with instead of releasing one that a 5 year old M5 would still beat? I once read that Jaguar wasn't targeting the XFR against the M5...BULL.

 

Jaguars aren't race cars. They are fast, comfortable, and stylish cruisers. I don't think the M5 would be anywhere near as comfortable to drive daily vs the XF. Besides that I think BMW has always had ugly interiors and the exteriors aren't anything special either. I love the Jags exterior/interior.

Jaguar doesn't have any relationship with Ford any more. Tata owns them now.

If you want to beat everything out there then sell the XF and buy a Nissan GTR.

 

Nothing wrong comparing those cars with a Jaguar, but you forgot one thing.

Have you compared the prices on every single one of those cars? Jaguar XFR is about $40,000 less than the M5.

Now if you reevaluate all those cars, Jaguar has done a pretty damn good job. Considerably cheaper and the performance is up there.

As mentioned, Jaguar is classy with tons of luxury. Where BMW was born a sports car and they try to incorporate luxury into their cars. To be honest, i am extremely disappointed with the interiors in the BMWs. I mean 550I's are $60,000-$70,000 cars and the interior looks like it's from 1980s.

 

I didn't buy an XFR to "beat" anything - I bought it for what it is. It is easy to make a powerful car, or a one-trick-pony - harder to make a car that scores highly in every measurable way. Jag have got as close as anyone can come with the XFR, in my opinion (and lets face it - it is all opinion). I have driven a Nissan GTR - it is incredibly fast and easy to drive. Objectively it is the best car in the world. I can afford one, yet it never makes my shortlist. Ultimately it isn't very beautiful or interesting. We all buy cars for different reasons, thankfully. One of the best things about the XFR is that it isn't an obvious choice, while being up there with the best in its class in most ways.

 

XF does not compete against the top end BMW and Mercedes ordinary people don't buy.

 

Hey there.....helluva first post for a "Jaguar fan" on a Jag enthusiast site?

You keep referring to Jagaur as "you" which I find strange if you're an enthusiast / owner, also generally most Jag owners find in fairly common knowledge that Ford have had nothing to do with Jaguar for some time now and they are owned by TATA!

I have a funny feeling that you may turn out to be a troll, but in the interest of fair play I'll leave this and see where it goes!

 

I assure you jimc64 I do own a blk xfr. I know Tata owns Jaguar, but there could still be channels open. I brought my xfr because I did not care for the M5 styling. There is nothing wrong with wanting your car to win. If I'm a troll, what would I be trolling for? BMW....not hardly. I'm wanting Jaguar to do even better. So I mention Jaguar putting in a more powerful engine and the majority of the people here thing I'm trolling? Maybe it's just the Jaguar mentality?
I've already spoke with my money, now I just want my team to win. Is that so wrong?

 

My '92 XJ 3.2 has 262000Km on the clock and runs like a watch.
It won't catch my GTR but I wonder how good my GTR will be at 260K?

 

My car's fast enough for me, and I like things fast, and powerful. I don't need any more than the 300 or so HP mine came with. Sure, 500 would be a real treat, but the temptation to use it would eventually get me and here we go, speeding tickets.

Whoever said that the BMW's interior is, and I'm paraphrasing, not so great, is absolutely right. So is the Mercedes interior, and Porsche too. Bland, very little wood, and just not fun to look at. I would put the Jaguar interior AND exterior up against any other machine out there. I can't find anything wrong with what Jaguar has done, but some have pointed to the "knob" as being a little off vs. a shifter. I don't think you're a troll, you just want Jag to be the undisputed King of the Hill. In my book already it is! Go Jaguar!!!

 

If Jaguar can improve it's reliability, (perceived or otherwise), it has a nice niche in the market. Handling, power and design is very competetive or better than the other luxury/sports car brands. Technology (nav, heads up display, etc.) needs some improvement, but this is happening. Introduction of all wheel drive will also improve sales in certain regions.

 

What doesn't it beat? A brand new super car that hasn't yet come out or it has just come out? In all tests that I have seen, the xfr was given the highest praise. Don't believe me, just watch top gear's review. Remember it has an engine that has been out for 3 years now. Who knows what the next gen will bring. I too think this is a suspect 1st post that if it isn't trolling then you're at least wearing a troll suit. ha ha! Seriously though the car is among the fastest/quickest in its class and doesn't sacrifice luxury, form, or technology for function. What more can anyone want really?

 

mravn,

A few quick comments and suggestions - -

1) Try not to get caught up in what auto magazine reviews say. Like the car because you like it - - don't like the car because a magazine article says it has great HP or a fast top speed. Evaluating a car on how much HP it has or it's top speed alone is simply just one metric that I am sure the Jaguar executives would agree with. There are so many other metrics that some of the other members have discussed such as interior. In my book, when it comes to exterior styling, interior styling, luxuriousness, materials, and overall class Jaguar always wins.

Again, it depends on your personal preference.

2) Lastly I am confused - - if your really concerned with the whole HP // mph thing, than why did you buy a Jaguar and not a 5 year old M5 your comparing against? You could have saved a lot of money.

 

BrownRobin, as I've mentioned in my previous post, I don't care for the M5 styling (inside or out). I was fine with the 510hp of my car but after reading some post here recently about how it's just a tweak different than the 542hp version, it seems to me Jaguar is short changing itself. Why not put your BEST effort out? I plan on keeping my car for several more happy driving years (unless gas goes to $6 a gal...which could happen). I have not had any problems with my car and repeat, Love it. It's true, maybe I do get caught up on these magazine ratings but who doesn't want to see there team on top.
In reality, no one needs 500+ hp, but if you are going to do, shoot for the top. I guess people here still think I'm trolling so let me mention some of the cool things about my car:
I brought it Nov 2010, and till this day I still can believe how smooth it rides with 20in wheels. And all this time I have yet to come face to face with another XFR...unbelievable.

 

OK, so a swanky BMW can do this, and a swanky Merc can do that, and a swanky "whatever" can do whatsit, why doesnt Jaguar do it ? Well, tell me how many times you need the 'performance' these cars are supposed to offer ? Do you visit a race track now and again ? I think Jaguar have realised, (ahead of the Germans), that there is more to life and motoring than just naked performance. And bear in mind that these super quick BMW/Mercs are only bought by a handful, most people buy their standard offerings. which are really a bit dull. Having had a look inside a BMW, I know I don't really want to ride around in a taxicab.

Of course I am an old man, so maybe don't understand these things. However, I did a lot of motorcycling, though, before I got married, so do understand the performance issue in a lot of ways. I remember going out with a friend one evening on our bikes, mine a Triumph 750 triple, his a Norton Commando. We were tootling along as you do, when a chap came past us at a rate of knots. Afterward, my friend said he knew what was going to happen next. Right ! After him I went, and had to really use that Triumph to stay with him, but on a long sweeping right-hander, was reeling him in like a fish. We arrived at a roundabout almost together, then away he went, and some ! I revved up the Triumph to over 8000 revs in 1st, 2nd and 3rd and just about kept level. Up to the next roundabout, (we have a lot in the UK), then we turned off to the pub, but I got a glance at him and saw he was riding a Kawasaki 500 two-stroke, a bike with awsome performance, but not much good on bends. I later took the Triumph around the Isle of Man TT circuit one evening. Quite an experience, no upper speed limit there.

So I do understand this performance thing, IF you are in a position to use it.

I suspect this thread will run and run. Hope I haven't upset anybody, (too much) !

 

Ford still builds the engines for Jaguar. The V8 is built in Wales, UK. The diesels for Europe are built by Ford but elsewhere, I think, and may be joint ventured with another Euro maker like Peugeot.

 

The title of the thread intrigued me so I figured I would throw in my $0.02. There was also some similar hand-wringing thread over on the XK/XKR where someone was disappointed that the new XKR did 0-60 in 4.4 seconds instead of 4.2 seconds or something along those lines.

You will be sorely disappointed if you go chasing after the fastest 0-60 car as there will almost certainly be something faster momentarily. Also, in mainstream day-to-day driving I doubt if you would get a chance to push even a 300hp car to its limits. Sure the "enthusiasts" who can't help but glance at every issue of every car magazine every month to see who "wins" at the moment won't be happy unless they have the flavor-of-the moment (I swear it seems like every couple of months the cover of Car & Driver or Motor Trend or one of the other mags has a "who's fastest" comparison). But really, how often are you going to visit the strip or track with your car?

Doug

 

You are so right. We get obsessed with the numbers and the implied "potential". Its a male thing. I can't answer questions about my car without ensuring that at some point I expose the HP and Torque figures. I have yet to witness my father answer questions about his airplane without the same kind of inclusions. Its the male condition.

For me I need things in aggregate to fully enjoy a vehicle or even buy one. for example although I love displacement and HP, I could not own a Vette no matter the HP. I love Porsches but I feel silly to riding around in my friend's Boxster.

I have owned an AC Cobra with insane power to weight ratio beyond anything you could buy production....but to your point it never fully gets used....its about the potential that you could.

For me the XF SC is the best combination I have ever owned of interior and exterior style, performance and comfort. I have owned BMW's and thought about an M3 or 5 but for me they fail in some of these categories. Its about what you value in aggregate, not just the specs.

 

On the other hand, if Jaguar is going to try to improve anything and be "first" it should be in the area of quality and customer satisfaction. The latest reliability ratings from sources like Consumer Reports and JD Powers places the Jaguar pretty low--that is the area where they need to strive towards being first.

Doug

 

Totally agree with Seismic, jag already has the car. Service and support and they will hit the top.

 

What? 2010 JD Powers reliability ratings has Jaguar in the bottom 3rd for all auto makers, but in 2011 it rose all the up to #3. I would say that it a huge step in the right direction.