These are valid concerns.

Anyone interested in having the tune done or has had their car tuned will be interested in the answers. An explanation of the tuning strategy and resulting dyno charts will give credibility to quality of the tune.

Can throttle response be monitored to explain if power is being backed off by the TCU, or other module, to explain the dip in the dyno chart?

 

Not throttle response, but actual boost pressure and degrees of ignition advance is easily recorded against rpm throughout any acceleration run on the street or dyno. Reviewing that is very easy to do. A reduction in either is evidence of the ECU or TCU stepping in.

I forget which publication it was, but a recent comparison involving the 2014 GT-R noted that the combination of hot test conditions and the limitations of 91 octane forced the GT-R to lose power, while others seemed unaffected. The GT-R was a 480 hp engine that has been more aggressively tuned over the years to currently 545 hp. It's ECU is quite capable of protecting the engine by reducing power when needed which it did during that test.

Regarding AFR, I increased power on my 3L Supra over 110 whp, from 295 whp to 408 whp, by opening up the exhaust and increasing boost from 10.8 psi to 18 psi. The ECU wasn't touched, and runs the engine at as much as 13.1:1 AFR at higher rpm, which most would consider getting pretty lean. But the engine uses a knock sensor like all engines today, and the ECU will constantly advance the ignition as much as it can to optimize performance under all conditions while monitoring the knock sensor, and will reduce ignition as required. It's operation is normally undetectable as it controls ignition, but will provide a dramatic ignition retard if needed. That only happened once out of the dozens of times I tracked it under extreme conditions, and was felt as a jerk as power was momentarily cut. I always run 94 octane on the track, and had I added a splash of race gas in the tank it wouldn't have happened at all.

My 2L MR2T's power was increased 121 whp, from 165 whp to 286 whp, also by opening up the exhaust and increasing boost from ~10 psi to 17 psi. That required tuning of the stock ECU's fuel and ignition maps, and it runs 12.1:1 AFR at high rpm. Some builds make over 700 whp out of this small engine at ~12.0:1.

But the aggressiveness and safety of a tune is determined by both the ECU's AFR and ignition maps, and using the octane that the tune was designed for. Hopefully Jerry will be able to shed light on the degree of effort and expertise that went into the basic tune he uses, what adjustments ET makes for their individual customers, and the qualifications of the tuner that makes those adjustments.

It'll be great for our community to have a tune available that we've properly researched and can trust for each application, and the efforts of members like Gn4hir, Matt and Jerry are much appreciated!

Bruce

 

Yes, that is why I mentioned it. The ECU controls the torque via the throttle, so that is how you can be sure if the ECU steps in or not.

 

since I don't have the technical knowledge about to or not to Eurocharged/ECU Tuning concerning the warranty I'd like to talk to someone, hopefully Kyanite since I live in the north part of San Diego. is there a definitive conclusion as to the dealership knowing whether you have had the upgraded ecu tune?

a side note, I have been unable to confirm with Eibach about lowering springs. they say yes for the XF but not sure if it applies to the XFR. Help. Thank you.

 

Jerry at EuroCharged says they won't be able to tell. I believe Brutal also said that if the file isn't changed, he couldn't tell either (please correct if wrong). So my thoughts are that it isn't detectable.

On another note, since there has been such a discussion stirring on AFR's (Bruce H.), how a tune should be done (WRX), what the actual results are - not just peak numbers, I've decided to wait on my tune. I'm getting the pulley sent out and will see if I can tell much of a difference. I'm going to ask a lot of questions, then determine if I proceed.

The two things that bother me the most is how the AFR's can be that different from place to place on the same tune (10.5 vs. 11.5) and also why the stock fuel map isn't changed during the tune? I have a fuel injected motorcycle and the whole point of getting a programmer is to change the fuel map and ignition timing to optimize power and throttle response. Sounds like they are only removing the software limitations for power (but maybe not all of them) and changing the throttle pedal response. Hoping everything will be more clear in the near future and I can feel good about the additional dollars invested.

 

Here are the photos for the pulley puller EuroCharged recommends. They say a few still get stuck on though and you have to cut them off. Hope I'm lucky.

 

With all of the boost limiters built into the software, what are you expecting for an increase in performance?

 

That's the issue. If they are going into the software shouldn't they be removing those limiters or altering them to a safe level? Also, if you don't even touch the AFR and leave it stock, how much more power is there for the taking if someone just does the work to bring it to 11.5 or 12 from 10.5? Is the transmission the limiting factor? Is there something that's cutting mid-range power that can't be turned off? Many more questions to be answered for sure.

Like I said, I'm not against a tune. Just want to know more about what I'm getting for the money invested and the logic behind their work. I know the pulley will definitely get me more of what I want for very little investment so I'm moving forward with it. And I've seen that the stock ecu will correct for it, so I'm not worried at all. If I had an SC model, the tune would make even more sense, but my gains will be smaller proportionally having an XFR. And since most people get the pulley and tune at the same time, it's harder to tell if the bulk of the gain is from one or the other. I'll do the pulley, decide if that's enough, and if not get a tune. By then, with help from those of you on this forum, I hope to have shed some light on the other questions I still have.

I should have the pulley later this week. Probably be the following weekend before I can get it installed and report on how it feels.

 

I just tuned an XKR with a smaller upper pulley. The car is now so powerful you have to be careful when accelerating as it just looses traction. It is cold here & with the traction control off you can break the rear wheels loose on a shift between 2nd & 3rd. I will dyno the car in about a week. The tune in this car closes the bypass valve 100%.

 

Was it a "canned" tune or was it something custom? If canned, which did you use? If not, did you do the tune? And what size/boost pulley did you use...1.5? Looking forward to the dyno sheets.

 

I'm not sure if Jerry will chime in, but to break the silence for a moment I'll throw out my ideal tuning strategy to make additional power:

1. Remove the torque limiters. These are stealing power in the mid-range where torque is peaking, and where we all can benefit from more.

2. Reduce exhaust system restriction to increase engine Volumetric Efficiency. That's a good thing because it allows the engine to flow more air with the same amount of boost...and that makes more power all by itself. It's like you blowing air through a small straw vs. a larger tube. Large tube passes more air effortlessly. Do this by installing Hi-Flow cats, or just replace the factory ones with removable pipes if the ECU can operate without any at all. Swap in the cats for emission tests. Open up the exhaust beyond the cats as well.

3. Optimally tune air/fuel ratios for those with good gas. If you happen to live in Cali or somewhere with poor gas...move

4. Tune the ignition map for decent gas. If you have good quality gas the ignition can handle a little more advance and make more power. If you always have access to higher than 91 then you can run more advance in your tune and make more power.

5. Add water-injection and tune for it. A fine mist of water is sprayed into the intake from a refillable reservoir. Part of it atomizes in the airstream, and as it changes state from liquid to vapour it absorbs heat and improves intercooling. That makes more power just like you do on a cool morning. The part that remains in liquid form mixes with air and gas in the combustion chamber where it has the same effect as using higher octane...namely it slows the burn upon ignition and safely allows for more ignition advance...and more power. Or you can leave ignition where it was after step #4 and use the water-injection to provide additional detonation protection for peace of mind when you're out chasing down Vettes, Vipers, Porsche, XKRs and F-Types!

This plan doesn't require swapping pulleys and running higher boost. I'd personally prefer not to have to raise boost because that puts more strain on the factory intercoolers. Increasing boost generates more heat. If the intercoolers are already struggling to reduce intake temps during very hot weather and aggressive driving (like on a race track), then intake temps will rise, air density drops, and power will drop along with it. The ECU can also switch to a Limp Mode to protect itself and limit engine output which is what happened with the GT-R testing mentioned earlier.

6. Raise boost with a pulley swap

A little extra boost and a little more aggressive tune will make a little more power for a very reasonable price, but maybe a custom tune is what some might appreciate and be willing to pay for. How nice it would be to be able to download more than one tune to suit your various and changing needs.

Bruce

 

My buddy has an 08 GT500 Mustang. I was doing some research for him and you can get the programmer with multiple tunes for $400-$500. And they get BIG gains from that too. Plus they can reflash anytime they want. Guess that's the cost for buying a boutique brand. It's still worth the extra headache though.

 

To Bruce H.'s point I would love to see someone in the Jag community go the water or meth injection route. With the proper system safeguards I agree that it is the absolute best way to make safe power on a boosted engine without swapping pulleys / intercoolers / fuel system components etc.

 

and this is exactly one thing i love on my nissan with uprev tuning. I can switch on the fly between tunes seemlessly with cruise control buttons(no affect to normal cruise operation)
i have 5 tunes,
performance under full boost,
towing
valet or kids, 3k rev limiter so sahuts off right when truck opens the blower for boost
crap gas
anti theft, will not go faster than 9 mph

 

Heck yeah, I had a similar system on a few of my heavily modded Subarus. A flick of the switch and I could change between maps for varying gas quality, times of the year, valet mode etc. It's a shame stuff like this probably will never exist for the Jag community because there just flat out isn't enough demand.

 

I knew coming over to a Jag that there'd be a lot less tuning options than I had for my BMW 535 (twin turbo). But I am hoping to see some more development, particularly for my 3.0 supercharged engine. Blown engines can typically get substantial gains with good tuning, but it takes a lot of work and trial to get there. And let's face it, there's way more demand driving the BMW tuning market because there are so darn many of them on the road.

 

theres already a company working for stuff on the ftype thats pretty big into volvos too. So stuff is starting to move over. This is why i like threads like this and people wanting to step out and mod that buy stuff and not talk. Ive spent alot of money and time going into a area with nissan that no one touched. Made custom stuff, custom engine parts with rods and pistons, tuning, custom sc install of a ken bell twin screw designed for a 6 litre ls in a vette, not a 4.0 v6 in a truck. But it works breat and has doubled the factory hp from 265 to right around 550crank. So enjoy these threads and companies starting to bring jaguar performance to market

 

I too hope that the increased awareness of the R and R-S lines opens up some aftermarket support for these engines. I know the chassis stuff will mostly be different in XF, XK, XJ, F-Type, but the engine is the same, so hopefully the options will be compatible across all models. When I watch Velocity, I see the XFR commercial constantly (the one where the car does burn outs in the shape of the leaper) so there should be more of a buzz than previously. And when you can't afford the new one you really want, people often settle for the older models and then try to mod them to get to, or exceed the performance of the new one. Give you one guess which I am.

 

Bump

For those that did the tune and pulley swap any problems in the last year? I am thinking about taking mine to their shop in Houston.

 

Mine isn't Eurocharged tuned, but no issues related to the Jailbreak tune since I had it done at the beginning of the year.