Exhaust cam timing problem 5.0SC
#61
I said that wrong, I meant I was testing the wiring with the ohmmeter. I swapped the sensors around to see if that made a difference (it didn't). Then I checked for 5v which was spot on for each, then ohm tested the sensor wire from the sensor connector to the ECU connector. They buzzed for continuity and sensor 1 had correct resistance and sensor 2 was showing a bit too much resistance and it's the one throwing a circuitry code.....which is odd because it reads great in live data and sensor 1 is the one going to 150 in live data, yet tested fine!
*UPDATE* I do not understand electrical all that well...the basics kind of, but fairly handicapped. BUT, could this be a issue there these 2 sensor wires are rubbed into each other??? Could that cause sensor 2 wire to see too much resistance (meaning lower voltage passing through) and the other wire to have too much voltage passing through creating the 150 spikes??? Hmmm, how could I test for something like this using just a basic volt/ohm meter???
*UPDATE* I do not understand electrical all that well...the basics kind of, but fairly handicapped. BUT, could this be a issue there these 2 sensor wires are rubbed into each other??? Could that cause sensor 2 wire to see too much resistance (meaning lower voltage passing through) and the other wire to have too much voltage passing through creating the 150 spikes??? Hmmm, how could I test for something like this using just a basic volt/ohm meter???
#62
Resistance in a digital circuit does not make any difference because there is no current flow or I should say negligible current flow. The ECU input is only looking at voltages and if the sensor is switching the ECU will see it even with some resistance in the wiring.
Now that I'm thinking of it....is it even possible for the degrees to go from 73 to 150, to be a wiring issue??? Am I wasting my time looking for a wiring issue?
Did you get a brand new ECU or a used one? If used, how did you get it programmed? You get RR to program in your vin and such?
I'm tired, fixing to just buy a ECU to throw at it and hope for the best. lol
Last edited by Xposure; 08-08-2022 at 01:48 PM.
#64
This timing issue I explained above. Which it's in restrictive mode because of this.....but the bank 1 intake cam in live data is fluctuating between 73 and 150. The bank 1 exhaust cam in live data reads correct but threw a circuit performance code p0366.
When your live data was going between 120 and 150 did the engine sound right? Nice and smooth? Was it in restrictive mode?
When your live data was going between 120 and 150 did the engine sound right? Nice and smooth? Was it in restrictive mode?
#65
This timing issue I explained above. Which it's in restrictive mode because of this.....but the bank 1 intake cam in live data is fluctuating between 73 and 150. The bank 1 exhaust cam in live data reads correct but threw a circuit performance code p0366.
When your live data was going between 120 and 150 did the engine sound right? Nice and smooth? Was it in restrictive mode?
When your live data was going between 120 and 150 did the engine sound right? Nice and smooth? Was it in restrictive mode?
#66
Mine still does it and runs good, 9,000 miles now. Forget the wiring. Signal is digital, not analog, detecting the passing of the vanes on the phaser and comparing to crank signal re degrees. I got a used ECU from Ebay and programmed it to the car then it stopped throwing the code.
What did you use to program the ECU to your car?
#67
I used a device I bought on Ebay to program it. Google Jaguar Land Rover SDD or similar.
Last edited by kansanbrit; 08-08-2022 at 09:27 PM.
#68
In your scan tool do you have camshaft adaptation values which is represented as timing? It appears as the timing the ECU is trying to achieve and there is one for each cam. For my bank 1 intake cam (the one that flickers to 150) the adaptation value shows 180 degrees....the other intake cam shows 73. The adaptation values are usually around the actual timing and it's only this one cam that is all messed up.
Also, I reset the engine adaptation values and it didn't make a difference.
One last thing, I watched the actual timing values a lot before I did the phaser job and while previously the adaptation value was at 180, the actual timing NEVER flickered to 150 like I see it doing now, after the phaser job. I've been thinking maybe the harness getting moved around damaged the signal wire somewhere. But I know you scoped from the sensor all the way to ecm connector.
Last edited by Xposure; 08-09-2022 at 12:07 AM.
#69
Last edited by kansanbrit; 08-09-2022 at 06:56 AM.
#70
#71
Well no, I'm not positive. This is a auction vehicle I'm trying to fix, and it has various issues I'm tackling one at a time. But right now I'm focused on the engine....and what we have been discussing about timing is the only engine issues the scan tool is picking up. Wouldn't p0016 typically put it into restrictive mode?
Last edited by kansanbrit; 08-09-2022 at 09:23 AM.
#72
When you say "updated code" did they update these specific ECUs with new code? I wasn't aware of anything like that. This is a 2011 model. So did that tool you got off eBay allow you to update the code? Where did you source thd updated code to upload into the ECU?
#73
Somehow the manufacturers get you a licence when you install their software to download ECU firmware.
All I can tell you is my old ECU threw p0017 codes and when I configured the replacement the output waveform (timing figures) is the same but the code doesn't appear. The ECU was my last resort because, like you, I couldn't see anything wrong. Would love to know if anyone else sees their timing figures jumping.
All I can tell you is my old ECU threw p0017 codes and when I configured the replacement the output waveform (timing figures) is the same but the code doesn't appear. The ECU was my last resort because, like you, I couldn't see anything wrong. Would love to know if anyone else sees their timing figures jumping.
Last edited by kansanbrit; 08-09-2022 at 04:18 PM.
#74
Somehow the manufacturers get you a licence when you install their software to download ECU firmware.
All I can tell you is my old ECU threw p0017 codes and when I configured the replacement the output waveform (timing figures) is the same but the code doesn't appear. The ECU was my last resort because, like you, I couldn't see anything wrong. Would love to know if anyone else sees their timing figures jumping.
All I can tell you is my old ECU threw p0017 codes and when I configured the replacement the output waveform (timing figures) is the same but the code doesn't appear. The ECU was my last resort because, like you, I couldn't see anything wrong. Would love to know if anyone else sees their timing figures jumping.
#75
Somehow the manufacturers get you a licence when you install their software to download ECU firmware.
All I can tell you is my old ECU threw p0017 codes and when I configured the replacement the output waveform (timing figures) is the same but the code doesn't appear. The ECU was my last resort because, like you, I couldn't see anything wrong. Would love to know if anyone else sees their timing figures jumping.
All I can tell you is my old ECU threw p0017 codes and when I configured the replacement the output waveform (timing figures) is the same but the code doesn't appear. The ECU was my last resort because, like you, I couldn't see anything wrong. Would love to know if anyone else sees their timing figures jumping.
#76
Thought I'd add one more comment....I just cut into the power wire splice and this is some factory garbage....just 3 wires next to each other with heat shrink around it! No solder, no connectors, not even twisting....just 3 wires side touching....no wonder this garbage failed!
#77
Three wires just touching each other, not twisted or anything, with some shrink on them....that's a failure waiting to happen. Even in a cheap car like a Honda Civic, they use a high quality crimped connection for a splice like this....and at 300k miles it'll still be good.
You might want to untape some of your harness then move it around while watching the timing on the scan tool and see if it goes nuts.
Also, I'm thinking this is probably what damaged the phaser somehow since this bad wiring and messed up phaser are all on the same cam. I'm thinking maybe trying to control the phaser incorrectly based on poor timing data.
#78
OK, interesting. So I am presuming you have managed to fix your problem now by fixing the wiring? You keep saying three wires running next to each other but didn't answer my question of whether they are insulated wires or uninsulated? Why is it a failure waiting to happen, I don't understand why. A photograph would help.
I have no idea how bad wiring could break a phaser..........
I have no idea how bad wiring could break a phaser..........
Last edited by kansanbrit; 08-15-2022 at 07:13 AM.
#79
OK, interesting. So I am presuming you have managed to fix your problem now by fixing the wiring? You keep saying three wires running next to each other but didn't answer my question of whether they are insulated wires or uninsulated? Why is it a failure waiting to happen, I don't understand why. A photograph would help.
I have no idea how bad wiring could break a phaser..........
I have no idea how bad wiring could break a phaser..........
I unfortunately haven't had a chance to button it back up because my back got hurt. I should be testing this out in the next few days and reporting back if it corrected the erroneous 150 actual timing and 180 cam adaptation readings for this cam. My hope is that all will be well after fixing the harness. I've worked on a lot of harnesses, this is a junk splice, shade tree kind of work that will not last and causes a ton of resistance from vibration....yet appears to be 100% factory.
Pic above the the inside of the shrink so you can see there was nothing in it. I left a bit of wire insulation in it that I accidentally cut opening the splice up. A marine heatshrink with no crimp connector, solder, not even a twist....is totally inadequate IF your trying to build a vehicle that lasts.
Last edited by Xposure; 08-18-2022 at 11:38 AM.
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Rango (09-09-2022)
#80
It's just 3 wires stuck together in heat shrink. This is regarding the power and the ground wires. As I moved the harness around and watched the timing go absolutely all over the place (wild swings)...with the ECU continually trying to compensate for these timing readings....which are not correct readings....by adjusting the phaser, which then actually creates incorrect timing, which is bad for the phaser and engine in general. For the record, I couldn't pick up anything with a multimeter as it probably happens too fast....but I could see it in the live data timing of the scan tool and in how the engine started stumbling when I'd shake the wires.
I unfortunately haven't had a chance to button it back up because my back got hurt. I should be testing this out in the next few days and reporting back if it corrected the erroneous 150 actual timing and 180 cam adaptation readings for this cam. My hope is that all will be well after fixing the harness. I've worked on a lot of harnesses, this is a junk splice, shade tree kind of work that will not last and causes a ton of resistance from vibration....yet appears to be 100% factory.
Pic above the the inside of the shrink so you can see there was nothing in it. I left a bit of wire insulation in it that I accidentally cut opening the splice up. A marine heatshrink with no crimp connector, solder, not even a twist....is totally inadequate IF your trying to build a vehicle that lasts.
I unfortunately haven't had a chance to button it back up because my back got hurt. I should be testing this out in the next few days and reporting back if it corrected the erroneous 150 actual timing and 180 cam adaptation readings for this cam. My hope is that all will be well after fixing the harness. I've worked on a lot of harnesses, this is a junk splice, shade tree kind of work that will not last and causes a ton of resistance from vibration....yet appears to be 100% factory.
Pic above the the inside of the shrink so you can see there was nothing in it. I left a bit of wire insulation in it that I accidentally cut opening the splice up. A marine heatshrink with no crimp connector, solder, not even a twist....is totally inadequate IF your trying to build a vehicle that lasts.
The following users liked this post:
Rango (09-09-2022)