JAGUAR XFR Supercharger loud Howling noise -
#1
03-20-2023, 03:39 AM
2010 JAGUAR XFR Supercharger loud Howling noise -
I've been getting a loud inconsistent howling noise coming from my Supercharger. Determined by using a stethoscope. Please review this video to help me determine why it's making this noise. 2010 Jaguar xfr with 180,000 KM
Video here
https://youtu.be/rLx1BscO2Go
I'm already prepared to remove the Supercharger and begin a rebuild. But has anybody dealt or know the exact reason for this nosie so I know what to replace for sure?
Also while I have the Supercharger out is there anything else I should be replacing?
I am prepared to also replace the coolant hoses underneath, the water pump, all belts, supercharger pulley , coupler , and whatever else is needed for SC rebuild . Should I be replacing anything else at this time while it's out and have access to other areas?
Video here
https://youtu.be/rLx1BscO2Go
I'm already prepared to remove the Supercharger and begin a rebuild. But has anybody dealt or know the exact reason for this nosie so I know what to replace for sure?
Also while I have the Supercharger out is there anything else I should be replacing?
I am prepared to also replace the coolant hoses underneath, the water pump, all belts, supercharger pulley , coupler , and whatever else is needed for SC rebuild . Should I be replacing anything else at this time while it's out and have access to other areas?
#4
07-09-2023, 11:28 AM
Veteran Member
Yes replace the plastic front cooling pipes with the lifetime Aluminum ones. There are some nice kits out now with all the upgrades together.
Take a look?
Upgraded Cooling Parts
Sorry I just saw this? That kit above is missing a nice upgraded Aluminum water transfer tube that goes from the water pump to the oil cooler brick.
Here is what I am talking about;
Aluminum Water Transfer Tube
Since you have the very early 5.0L SC engine you need to check very carefully the timing chain/tensioners. These early 5.0L engines all need the tensioner systems replaced.
If you want to be sure that noise is from the SC it is real easy. Take the SC belt off and start the car. You can even drive it that way with no problems other than it will be a slug! Also be aware that the SC snout is most likely clunking now too. This can be fixed one of two ways. Replace with factory spring cushioned coupler or discard all the Jaguar stuff and use a solid coupler. So good idea on replacing the coupler!
Solid coupler has had a few reported problems and people have swapped back to the factory setup but others have run them for years with no problem. If going with a factory replacement it will be more expensive.
Since it's off you could port the SC too? Are you installing a smaller upper pulley? You did mention pulley so I think you are? Of course change the SC oil but if the SC requires a rebuild that should be included.
Your coolant needs changed too and it will be partially drained to replace the water pump so might as well do a full change. One other tip is these cars are hard to refill without chasing air bubbles. Consider a vacuum filler if you don't have one. They are pretty cheap now and do a good job. I just recently pickup one myself and have not had the pleasure of using it yet!
Finally I would really recommend disconnecting that dumb Symposer setup! Easy to do and I sure like my XJR better now that all that artificial noise crap inside the cabin is gone. It just sounded weird to me!
.
.
.
Take a look?
Upgraded Cooling Parts
Sorry I just saw this? That kit above is missing a nice upgraded Aluminum water transfer tube that goes from the water pump to the oil cooler brick.
Here is what I am talking about;
Aluminum Water Transfer Tube
Since you have the very early 5.0L SC engine you need to check very carefully the timing chain/tensioners. These early 5.0L engines all need the tensioner systems replaced.
If you want to be sure that noise is from the SC it is real easy. Take the SC belt off and start the car. You can even drive it that way with no problems other than it will be a slug! Also be aware that the SC snout is most likely clunking now too. This can be fixed one of two ways. Replace with factory spring cushioned coupler or discard all the Jaguar stuff and use a solid coupler. So good idea on replacing the coupler!
Solid coupler has had a few reported problems and people have swapped back to the factory setup but others have run them for years with no problem. If going with a factory replacement it will be more expensive.
Since it's off you could port the SC too? Are you installing a smaller upper pulley? You did mention pulley so I think you are? Of course change the SC oil but if the SC requires a rebuild that should be included.
Your coolant needs changed too and it will be partially drained to replace the water pump so might as well do a full change. One other tip is these cars are hard to refill without chasing air bubbles. Consider a vacuum filler if you don't have one. They are pretty cheap now and do a good job. I just recently pickup one myself and have not had the pleasure of using it yet!
Finally I would really recommend disconnecting that dumb Symposer setup! Easy to do and I sure like my XJR better now that all that artificial noise crap inside the cabin is gone. It just sounded weird to me!
.
.
.
Last edited by clubairth1; 07-09-2023 at 11:32 AM.
#5
07-09-2023, 01:40 PM
Senior Member
Sounded to me like an air leak, sucking, or blowing? I would closely inspect the air, vacuum lines, and airside joints for signs of blow by, cracking of the plastic pipe etc.
Any excessive bearing movement on the supercharger, snout?
Did you check for any codes?
Things to do.
Renew the PCV diaphragms. Easier access.
Clean and degrease the air cooler.
Clean the throttle body.
Clean the inlet valves, at 180K miles they will be very oily on the stem and valve head. With carbon remover, ( I used petrol on all the closed valves, then turned the engine over to do the others)
The air inlet casing inlet casting flashings, was about 1mm raised on mine, which I smoother off.
The supercharger casing could also be smoother off, when removed.
Also clean up and remove the silicon bead inside the Supercharger when replacing the snout on reassembily.
Renew to the latest water pump, and have the brass fitting to the bleed hose. The plastic one tends to break off on removal anyway.
Check all the belt tensioner bearings, when removed. They are the bearing moulded into the plastic type, so can't just press out the bearings and renew.
Upgraded the throttle body heater hose which runs under the supercharger (valley pipe) to the rear heater header plastic manifold. (Which may or may not be clipped to the underside of the supercharger, depending who worked on it last.
Replace The short section 3/4" thin rubber vacuum line which connects into the air inlet manifold, LHS of engine with radiator hose, has been known to wear through.
Inspect the O rings on the CW and vacuum lines for secure fit, replace as required.
Any excessive bearing movement on the supercharger, snout?
Did you check for any codes?
Things to do.
Renew the PCV diaphragms. Easier access.
Clean and degrease the air cooler.
Clean the throttle body.
Clean the inlet valves, at 180K miles they will be very oily on the stem and valve head. With carbon remover, ( I used petrol on all the closed valves, then turned the engine over to do the others)
The air inlet casing inlet casting flashings, was about 1mm raised on mine, which I smoother off.
The supercharger casing could also be smoother off, when removed.
Also clean up and remove the silicon bead inside the Supercharger when replacing the snout on reassembily.
Renew to the latest water pump, and have the brass fitting to the bleed hose. The plastic one tends to break off on removal anyway.
Check all the belt tensioner bearings, when removed. They are the bearing moulded into the plastic type, so can't just press out the bearings and renew.
Upgraded the throttle body heater hose which runs under the supercharger (valley pipe) to the rear heater header plastic manifold. (Which may or may not be clipped to the underside of the supercharger, depending who worked on it last.
Replace The short section 3/4" thin rubber vacuum line which connects into the air inlet manifold, LHS of engine with radiator hose, has been known to wear through.
Inspect the O rings on the CW and vacuum lines for secure fit, replace as required.
#6
07-11-2023, 01:38 AM
Yes replace the plastic front cooling pipes with the lifetime Aluminum ones. There are some nice kits out now with all the upgrades together.
Take a look?
Upgraded Cooling Parts
Sorry I just saw this? That kit above is missing a nice upgraded Aluminum water transfer tube that goes from the water pump to the oil cooler brick.
Here is what I am talking about;
Aluminum Water Transfer Tube
Since you have the very early 5.0L SC engine you need to check very carefully the timing chain/tensioners. These early 5.0L engines all need the tensioner systems replaced.
If you want to be sure that noise is from the SC it is real easy. Take the SC belt off and start the car. You can even drive it that way with no problems other than it will be a slug! Also be aware that the SC snout is most likely clunking now too. This can be fixed one of two ways. Replace with factory spring cushioned coupler or discard all the Jaguar stuff and use a solid coupler. So good idea on replacing the coupler!
Solid coupler has had a few reported problems and people have swapped back to the factory setup but others have run them for years with no problem. If going with a factory replacement it will be more expensive.
Since it's off you could port the SC too? Are you installing a smaller upper pulley? You did mention pulley so I think you are? Of course change the SC oil but if the SC requires a rebuild that should be included.
Your coolant needs changed too and it will be partially drained to replace the water pump so might as well do a full change. One other tip is these cars are hard to refill without chasing air bubbles. Consider a vacuum filler if you don't have one. They are pretty cheap now and do a good job. I just recently pickup one myself and have not had the pleasure of using it yet!
Finally I would really recommend disconnecting that dumb Symposer setup! Easy to do and I sure like my XJR better now that all that artificial noise crap inside the cabin is gone. It just sounded weird to me!
.
.
.
Take a look?
Upgraded Cooling Parts
Sorry I just saw this? That kit above is missing a nice upgraded Aluminum water transfer tube that goes from the water pump to the oil cooler brick.
Here is what I am talking about;
Aluminum Water Transfer Tube
Since you have the very early 5.0L SC engine you need to check very carefully the timing chain/tensioners. These early 5.0L engines all need the tensioner systems replaced.
If you want to be sure that noise is from the SC it is real easy. Take the SC belt off and start the car. You can even drive it that way with no problems other than it will be a slug! Also be aware that the SC snout is most likely clunking now too. This can be fixed one of two ways. Replace with factory spring cushioned coupler or discard all the Jaguar stuff and use a solid coupler. So good idea on replacing the coupler!
Solid coupler has had a few reported problems and people have swapped back to the factory setup but others have run them for years with no problem. If going with a factory replacement it will be more expensive.
Since it's off you could port the SC too? Are you installing a smaller upper pulley? You did mention pulley so I think you are? Of course change the SC oil but if the SC requires a rebuild that should be included.
Your coolant needs changed too and it will be partially drained to replace the water pump so might as well do a full change. One other tip is these cars are hard to refill without chasing air bubbles. Consider a vacuum filler if you don't have one. They are pretty cheap now and do a good job. I just recently pickup one myself and have not had the pleasure of using it yet!
Finally I would really recommend disconnecting that dumb Symposer setup! Easy to do and I sure like my XJR better now that all that artificial noise crap inside the cabin is gone. It just sounded weird to me!
.
.
.
Im so incredibly grateful for this response. You summed up things perfectly and has helped me tremendously with my parts order today. Thanks for the updated parts . Yes I am upgrading the pulley. I also have a MyGenuis accessport and free tune from Eurocharged that goes along with the Pulley , so needless to say I want to get components healthy and renewed. Solid coupler and New oil ordered, along with the aforementioned cooling hoses/lines. I also have a new thermostat housing, waterpump, coolant, and coolant vacuum tool as per your suggestion. I honestly didnt know the 2010 XFR has a symposer! I will definitely disconnect it. I have deleted resonators and magnaflow mufflers. I am not short on symphony volume.
Thanks again! Truly helpful and appreciated!
#7
07-11-2023, 01:43 AM
Thank you very much for this added diagnostic info. I will definitely be following this to narrow down this noise. I still plan to do the aforementioned maintenance on supercharger and cooling components while the parts, tools and knowledge is fresh with me. So I am very thankful for this info, I am adding it to my list of maintenance. I will follow and update this thread once done. I will try to document this while process thanks to you guy!
Just a note, I have 180 kilometers, which is equivalent to 111,000 miles.
Just a note, I have 180 kilometers, which is equivalent to 111,000 miles.
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#8
07-11-2023, 09:27 AM
Veteran Member
You are most welcome but now you owe us (The Forum)!
Post back how it comes out as we all learn for each other.
Maybe with some pictures of what you found?
I only use VAP for tuning and pulleys but that is a personal choice.
Now one thing I do post a good bit? The lower pulley upgrade with a tune is the best bang for your buck. Yes you can add the smaller upper pulley and yes it will get you some additional power but your clearly in diminishing returns at that point. Also consider that with both pulleys you might need to increase the cooling by increasing the size/effectiveness of the inter-cooler system? You can data log your car and provide feedback to your tuner as he "might" be able to tailor your tune a bit? I don't know your tuner but VAP has an additional data logging device they use to get logs back to their tuner to look over.
I have changed to a better IC pump and I also have replaced the factory IC with an all Aluminum version from the after market. These are not so much for power as that is difficult to measure but more for reliability and drivability. You don't want to get into a heat soak situation while driving on the street if possible! But I need to admit that both of those mods have not been documented as real improvements with real number either?
Plus the lower pulley is way easier to install (It just replaces the stock lower pulley. About a 30 minute job with only 4 bolts) compared to the upper that you need to cut or press off and then press the new smaller pulley on.
The other issue is to get more boost the upper pulley must be made smaller in diameter. This decreases the amount of belt wrap on the pulley. So you have increased the power it takes to turn the pulley (Because you went to a smaller diameter) plus you now have less belt wrap to transfer that power.
With the lower pulley your increasing the diameter to increase boost BUT since the pulley is larger in diameter it takes less power to turn it AND you now have increased the belt wrap so it's able to transfer more power than stock. Really the best of both worlds!
The limit on the top pulley is you really can't make it too much smaller than it is or there is not enough metal for the pulley with that large shaft running through the center.
The limit on the lower pulley is just plain old space. The larger you make the lower pulley the more room it needs and you will run out of room quickly.
.
.
.
Post back how it comes out as we all learn for each other.
Maybe with some pictures of what you found?
I only use VAP for tuning and pulleys but that is a personal choice.
Now one thing I do post a good bit? The lower pulley upgrade with a tune is the best bang for your buck. Yes you can add the smaller upper pulley and yes it will get you some additional power but your clearly in diminishing returns at that point. Also consider that with both pulleys you might need to increase the cooling by increasing the size/effectiveness of the inter-cooler system? You can data log your car and provide feedback to your tuner as he "might" be able to tailor your tune a bit? I don't know your tuner but VAP has an additional data logging device they use to get logs back to their tuner to look over.
I have changed to a better IC pump and I also have replaced the factory IC with an all Aluminum version from the after market. These are not so much for power as that is difficult to measure but more for reliability and drivability. You don't want to get into a heat soak situation while driving on the street if possible! But I need to admit that both of those mods have not been documented as real improvements with real number either?
Plus the lower pulley is way easier to install (It just replaces the stock lower pulley. About a 30 minute job with only 4 bolts) compared to the upper that you need to cut or press off and then press the new smaller pulley on.
The other issue is to get more boost the upper pulley must be made smaller in diameter. This decreases the amount of belt wrap on the pulley. So you have increased the power it takes to turn the pulley (Because you went to a smaller diameter) plus you now have less belt wrap to transfer that power.
With the lower pulley your increasing the diameter to increase boost BUT since the pulley is larger in diameter it takes less power to turn it AND you now have increased the belt wrap so it's able to transfer more power than stock. Really the best of both worlds!
The limit on the top pulley is you really can't make it too much smaller than it is or there is not enough metal for the pulley with that large shaft running through the center.
The limit on the lower pulley is just plain old space. The larger you make the lower pulley the more room it needs and you will run out of room quickly.
.
.
.
#9
07-11-2023, 10:01 AM
You are most welcome but now you owe us (The Forum)!
Post back how it comes out as we all learn for each other.
Maybe with some pictures of what you found?
I only use VAP for tuning and pulleys but that is a personal choice.
Now one thing I do post a good bit? The lower pulley upgrade with a tune is the best bang for your buck. Yes you can add the smaller upper pulley and yes it will get you some additional power but your clearly in diminishing returns at that point. Also consider that with both pulleys you might need to increase the cooling by increasing the size/effectiveness of the inter-cooler system? You can data log your car and provide feedback to your tuner as he "might" be able to tailor your tune a bit? I don't know your tuner but VAP has an additional data logging device they use to get logs back to their tuner to look over.
I have changed to a better IC pump and I also have replaced the factory IC with an all Aluminum version from the after market. These are not so much for power as that is difficult to measure but more for reliability and drivability. You don't want to get into a heat soak situation while driving on the street if possible! But I need to admit that both of those mods have not been documented as real improvements with real number either?
Plus the lower pulley is way easier to install (It just replaces the stock lower pulley. About a 30 minute job with only 4 bolts) compared to the upper that you need to cut or press off and then press the new smaller pulley on.
The other issue is to get more boost the upper pulley must be made smaller in diameter. This decreases the amount of belt wrap on the pulley. So you have increased the power it takes to turn the pulley (Because you went to a smaller diameter) plus you now have less belt wrap to transfer that power.
With the lower pulley your increasing the diameter to increase boost BUT since the pulley is larger in diameter it takes less power to turn it AND you now have increased the belt wrap so it's able to transfer more power than stock. Really the best of both worlds!
The limit on the top pulley is you really can't make it too much smaller than it is or there is not enough metal for the pulley with that large shaft running through the center.
The limit on the lower pulley is just plain old space. The larger you make the lower pulley the more room it needs and you will run out of room quickly.
.
.
.
Post back how it comes out as we all learn for each other.
Maybe with some pictures of what you found?
I only use VAP for tuning and pulleys but that is a personal choice.
Now one thing I do post a good bit? The lower pulley upgrade with a tune is the best bang for your buck. Yes you can add the smaller upper pulley and yes it will get you some additional power but your clearly in diminishing returns at that point. Also consider that with both pulleys you might need to increase the cooling by increasing the size/effectiveness of the inter-cooler system? You can data log your car and provide feedback to your tuner as he "might" be able to tailor your tune a bit? I don't know your tuner but VAP has an additional data logging device they use to get logs back to their tuner to look over.
I have changed to a better IC pump and I also have replaced the factory IC with an all Aluminum version from the after market. These are not so much for power as that is difficult to measure but more for reliability and drivability. You don't want to get into a heat soak situation while driving on the street if possible! But I need to admit that both of those mods have not been documented as real improvements with real number either?
Plus the lower pulley is way easier to install (It just replaces the stock lower pulley. About a 30 minute job with only 4 bolts) compared to the upper that you need to cut or press off and then press the new smaller pulley on.
The other issue is to get more boost the upper pulley must be made smaller in diameter. This decreases the amount of belt wrap on the pulley. So you have increased the power it takes to turn the pulley (Because you went to a smaller diameter) plus you now have less belt wrap to transfer that power.
With the lower pulley your increasing the diameter to increase boost BUT since the pulley is larger in diameter it takes less power to turn it AND you now have increased the belt wrap so it's able to transfer more power than stock. Really the best of both worlds!
The limit on the top pulley is you really can't make it too much smaller than it is or there is not enough metal for the pulley with that large shaft running through the center.
The limit on the lower pulley is just plain old space. The larger you make the lower pulley the more room it needs and you will run out of room quickly.
.
.
.
#10
07-11-2023, 10:02 AM
Sounded to me like an air leak, sucking, or blowing? I would closely inspect the air, vacuum lines, and airside joints for signs of blow by, cracking of the plastic pipe etc.
Any excessive bearing movement on the supercharger, snout?
Did you check for any codes?
Things to do.
Renew the PCV diaphragms. Easier access.
Clean and degrease the air cooler.
Clean the throttle body.
Clean the inlet valves, at 180K miles they will be very oily on the stem and valve head. With carbon remover, ( I used petrol on all the closed valves, then turned the engine over to do the others)
The air inlet casing inlet casting flashings, was about 1mm raised on mine, which I smoother off.
The supercharger casing could also be smoother off, when removed.
Also clean up and remove the silicon bead inside the Supercharger when replacing the snout on reassembily.
Renew to the latest water pump, and have the brass fitting to the bleed hose. The plastic one tends to break off on removal anyway.
Check all the belt tensioner bearings, when removed. They are the bearing moulded into the plastic type, so can't just press out the bearings and renew.
Upgraded the throttle body heater hose which runs under the supercharger (valley pipe) to the rear heater header plastic manifold. (Which may or may not be clipped to the underside of the supercharger, depending who worked on it last.
Replace The short section 3/4" thin rubber vacuum line which connects into the air inlet manifold, LHS of engine with radiator hose, has been known to wear through.
Inspect the O rings on the CW and vacuum lines for secure fit, replace as required.
Any excessive bearing movement on the supercharger, snout?
Did you check for any codes?
Things to do.
Renew the PCV diaphragms. Easier access.
Clean and degrease the air cooler.
Clean the throttle body.
Clean the inlet valves, at 180K miles they will be very oily on the stem and valve head. With carbon remover, ( I used petrol on all the closed valves, then turned the engine over to do the others)
The air inlet casing inlet casting flashings, was about 1mm raised on mine, which I smoother off.
The supercharger casing could also be smoother off, when removed.
Also clean up and remove the silicon bead inside the Supercharger when replacing the snout on reassembily.
Renew to the latest water pump, and have the brass fitting to the bleed hose. The plastic one tends to break off on removal anyway.
Check all the belt tensioner bearings, when removed. They are the bearing moulded into the plastic type, so can't just press out the bearings and renew.
Upgraded the throttle body heater hose which runs under the supercharger (valley pipe) to the rear heater header plastic manifold. (Which may or may not be clipped to the underside of the supercharger, depending who worked on it last.
Replace The short section 3/4" thin rubber vacuum line which connects into the air inlet manifold, LHS of engine with radiator hose, has been known to wear through.
Inspect the O rings on the CW and vacuum lines for secure fit, replace as required.
Just a note, I have 180 kilometers, which is equivalent to 111,000 miles.
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