CAR magazine, issue 575, June 2010: the Good, the Bad and the Ugly, a long standing and well respected car rating review.

Jaguar: J D Power rating 5th of 28,
Mercedes Benz: J D Power rating 6th of 28
BMW: J D Power rating 10th of 28.

These are the actual ratings for 2008 which is when my XF was actually built.

Somebody is mistaken but it isn't me, I am just relying on what I read, from the supposed experts.

My XF also happens to conform to the J D Power rating quoted by CAR. It has been the third most reliable car I have purchased, after a VW Jetta in 1981 (the VW brand has since gone downhill in quality) and a 1998 Mazda Protege (Japanese built and phenomenally reliable during the warranty period).

If you buy a later model year and it turns out to be different then that is too bad. However, J D Power rated Jaguar #1, tied with Buick of all people, for 2009.

 

No time source for Car's JD Power claim nor what the rating was actually for: Dependability, IQS etc. It's a great car just not as reliable as its rivals. Just accept the fact the you got called out and still can't prove your point, so go back to wearing your rose tinted spectacles and make yourself a nice cup of tea. You'll feel so much better.

 

Well, in my World this is game, set and match.

I am not wearing any rose tints but CAR may be.

You asked for facts and I cited facts.

2008 is the time source which is the relevant time period. My other source is 2009.

I think you guys need to check your facts more carefully.

 

Game, set, match, huh? Jagular, you are making this too easy. Where to begin.

1. I like how you have chosen to ingore the 2010 JD Power numbers.

2. You should familiarize yourself with JD Power methodology. For their dependability study the survey "measures problems experienced by original owners of three-year-old vehicles". As stated on their website, the 2010 survey covers the 2007 model year cars. The 2009 survey you're relying on covered the 2006 model year which obviously is before the XF came to be.

3. Jag did indeed grab the top spot in JD Power's Dependability rankings for 2009. As I mentioned above, they were in the average range in the 2010 ranking. They were also average in 2008 and 2007 which makes the 2009 results look like a bit of an anomaly.

4. As Chef mentioned your Car Mag reference lacks some key info and I don't have access to the pages covering Jaguar cars to see for myself. JD Power does 5 different studies so what does the "JD POWER RANKING 2008" refer to? Dependability, Initial Quality, Customer Service? Considering JDP hasn't done a dependability study for the 2008 model year yet, then if the reference by Car is to the 2008 dependability study then the results are for the 2005 model year but that can't be it because Jag did not finish 5th in that survey. If it's supposed to be the 2008 Initial Quality ranking then it refers to the 2008 model year NOT build year (check JD Power's website for yourself if you want) which means the XF is not covered. In any case, that can't be what's being referred to either because Jag was not 5th in that survey either.

5. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the XF won't be part of the JDP dependability survey until 2012 since they look 3 MODEL YEARS (not build years) back for the survey.

Jagular - I believe you're the one that needs to do some fact checking. Nice try though. You are right about one thing for sure - someone is mistaken here.

For the record, I personally have no problem with the reliability of modern Jags. I do have a problem with exaggerations backed up by poorly chosen or misapplied facts.

 

I have had my XF for about 4 months and aside from minor issues (dealer delivered the car with 55 psi in the tires), I love the car.

I have always lowered the hood and never dropped it, it always latches. Good luck with the repair.

 

In general, Americans don't like to be corrected by anyone. This goes a long way to explaining why Americans are not well liked around the World at the moment.

I am referring to a respected British Car magazine but that isn't a good enough source. It is good enough for me.

Americans also suffer from the continuing delusion that the Germans build quality cars better than any others. In truth the Germans build very expensive cars that are not as reliable as they ought to be given how much they cost. You have to be certifiable to spend the kind of money Mercedes and BMW ask for their mundane models and they are not as well built as they like to suggest. BMW in particular are poorly built for the market segment they claim to occupy. Thanks mainly to American consumers BMW made a lot of money recently selling these average cars.

Well, we know one thing for sure, Jaguar builds better cars than any North American manufacturer, except possibly Buick and who would buy a Buick who wasn't one foot in the grave already?

 

It's not true - Americans are happy to be corrected, but obviously Canadians aren't. I happen to be British and we will argue about anything and correct everyone so until you stop I will keep going. I've read "car" (it's lower case btw) from back in the days when Lamborghini launched their first sports car, so I know they're good but I also know they are fallible.

You can express opinions all you like - something Canadians don't have to spend their money on - but they are at best hearsay, not proven facts. And until you can offer irrefutable credible facts you're just not going to change opinions here. Sorry.

 

To be honest it doesn't matter what the magazines say. There are obviously people on this forum that have had quality issues with their Jaguars (XF included) and for them it is really frustrating no matter who is right about the industry figures.

I have bought cars in the past with poor reliability indicators and in some cases it was justified (1996 Land Rover Discovery) and others it was not (2005 Mercedes). If you like a brand or specific car enough I believe that you will buy a car irrespective of what the figures say and just hope that you have got one of the good ones. When I lived in the UK (pre 1988) you just hoped you didn't get a car built on Friday as statistically they had many more issues.

So my bottom line is you have the data in this forum to say that there is a chance that the Jaguar you buy may have problems and it really doesn't matter if it is better or worse than another brand. The way the dealer reacts to the problems is much more important.

Hopefully in time it will get better.

 

Ahhh, unfortunately, unlike Chef, I don't have the stamina to debate with someone who wont even acknowledge the obvious flaws in their own argument but instead continues to shift the argument.

Geez, even I acknowledge Jag did "exceptionally well" in the '09 JDP survey and that modern Jags aren't bad. If they were, I wouldn't have bought one. I'm certainly not trying to discredit car magazine, I'm just interested in what JDP rating they were using.

Ok, I'm done. Jagular - you're my favorite. By the way, I'm Nigerian.

 

Let's lighten up guys. I have had several German cars (3 MB's; 3 Audis) and have had little or no problems with them. I was shopping for a MB when I went to my local Jag showroom and the test drive plus, the very agressive salesman made me "an offer I couldn't refuse".

I couldn't be happier with the car, the price was the icing on the cake. The XF is well made from premium materials, the interior is solid as a rock and the car handles like a gem. The V8 growl makes it very entertaining.

As for being "corrected", maybe you have run into some "Americans" that make a good argument and voice their opinions loudly. Don't take it to heart, that is what makes us "different".

 

I love my car. But I went into the purchase with my eyes open and very well aware of the numbers surrounding reliability etc. when I chose the Jaguar over the BMW and Mercedes. Knowing the reality and liking what you bought are not mutually incompatible.

 

I am also British but have lived in Canada for a long time and am therefore also Canadian.

My user name should be the tip off as to my propensity to yield a point in debate. I am aware that CAR uses large font lower case letters for its title but that is confusing when referring to the actual magazine in ordinary print. This would explain why CAR itself uses upper case letters when referring to itself in ordinary text. CAR also uses upper case to mark each page of its magazine as in "CARMAGAZINE". Finally, there is actually no convention on the style of upper case letters when designing a font.
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html
You should know that it can be risky trying to be pedantic without proper preparation.

I need no correction so would not know if I take to it easily or not, regardless of my nationality, mixed though it is.

I base my views as to the quality of current Jaguars on what I read and what I hear from others. These are not my opinions but based on reported facts. I do get tired of everyone assuming that Jaguar make unreliable cars compared to other makes when this is just not true and hasn't been for some time.

 

.....please excuse my plagiarism


That is what everyone who has bought or is considering buying in their heart of hearts hopes is true.

 

I bought my Jaguar because there is no other car that gives me as much pleasure to drive.

 

I have to totally agree with this..... I haven't heard from too many people really hammering the Jaguar reliability talking points, even considering the recent 2011 models. My 2011 XJL supercharged has already accumulated a list of reliability issues well beyond any other car I have owned in such a very short (few weeks) time. Refer to my post. I am willing to be a bit patient for the fixes because ( and besides) in the end I really like the style and drive of the car. Yeah argue Jag's great points, beauty, styling, esthetics, power, presence, ride and drivability and you are easily on granite ground but pushing Jag's reliability is like trying to glue Jello on a dusty wall ......

 

Well said, especially the part about the Jello. lol.

 

Latest from JD Power in Europe is the XF is second only to Lexus after three years.

 

As usual Mr. Chutzpa from north of the border makes a claim but can't back it up.

 

Jaguar World August 2010 page 10. "The World's Best Selling Independent Jaguar Magazine".

I am sure you will now back up with credible sources your your pretty wild claims that some California "studio" had input into the actual design of the Jaguar XF. So far we only have your word for everything you claim to be fact. I do not find that credible or reliable.

care to quote some sources or verify you have first hand information?

BTW, ad hominem attacks are a sure sign of a loser of the debate.

 

Nobody is loser , no attacks guys . I wonder do you have chips on your shoulder ?
No name calling you know rules
Easy ,I will make no 2nd call after that message


Also, you may dislike each other's posts if this is case then use ignore function thus you will no longer be able to see what your 'antagonist' wrote