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New Vendor Introduction - VelocityAP Performance Exhaust Systems & ECU Tuning

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  #21  
Old 05-16-2014, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Stuart@VelocityAP
The price includes the cable, so once you have completed the tuning process you can switch back & forth between the modified & original files at your own convenience. And you also don't have to email the file, the app automatically uploads it and sends us a copy, and vice versa with the tuned file.
If you can make this happen for other Jag models, i.e. the 4.2L STR, XKR, XJR & XF you will have customers beating down your door.
 
  #22  
Old 05-16-2014, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Cambo351
If you can make this happen for other Jag models, i.e. the 4.2L STR, XKR, XJR & XF you will have customers beating down your door.
These are what we have available at the moment, so STR looks like a no, but XKR, XJ SC, XF-R all do-able.

· F
o 3.0 V6 250KW MED17.8.3
o 3.0 S V6 280KW MED17.8.3
o 5.0 S V8 364KW MED17.8.3
· XF
o 2.2 D 120KW EDC17CP42
o 5.0 V8 283KW DENSO
o 3.0 S/C V6 250KW MED17.8.3
o 2.2 D 147KW EDC17CP42
o R 5.0 V8 375KW DENSO
· XF SPORTBRAKE
o 2.2 D 120KW EDC17CP42
o 2.2 D 147KW EDC17CP42
· XJ
o 5.0 V8 283KW DENSO
o 5.0 S/C V8 375KW MED17.8.3
o SUPERCHARGED 5.0 V8 375KW DENSO
o 3.0 S/C V6 250KW MED17.8.3
· XK
o R 5.0 S/C V8 375KW MED17.8.3
o R 5.0 V8 375KW DENSO
o RS 5.0 S/C V8 405KW MED17.8.3
o 5.0 V8 283KW DENSO
 
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  #23  
Old 05-16-2014, 10:14 PM
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Ah so no 4.2L models....
 
  #24  
Old 05-16-2014, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Cambo351
Ah so no 4.2L models....
Not at the moment, at least not with the cable, we have other equipment which will work on those. But I suspect if demand is high enough we can work on getting the 4.2 protocols on there.
 
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  #25  
Old 05-16-2014, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Stuart@VelocityAP
I can't really comment in actuality on a comparison to other pulleys on the market as I haven't seen them and don't know the materials or specs on them. In practice, on the 5.0L for example, I would expect them to be broadly similar, meaning that there's a safe limit for material thickness etc, that you can go to in downsizing the pulley. Once you've reached that the next step is a crank pulley which is a whole other kettle of fish because of the harmonic balancing and so on.

I'm curious how the car performs with a pulley but no tune? I would presume that it builds boost more quickly but doesn't it bleed off any excess boost beyond a certain point? If the ECU is set to limit boost at a certain level, and the pulley produces more I would think it would be a waste unless the ECU was programmed to accept higher boost levels.

The other thing I would be concerned about is knock. Again, I'm not sure here (just for reference, I am not an engineer, I'm not the brains behind the operation here at all) but typically when pressure charging an increase in boost needs to be coupled with a retardation of the ignition timing, particularly around peak torque RPM to prevent detonation. Due to not being the aforementioned Egghead, I don't know what the knock strategy looks like on the Jag computer but I would guess that it is using the borderline knock table to adjust your timing to compensate for the extra boost. Which would work to a fashion, but it would create a push/pull situation with the ECU where it is set to command a particular degree of timing advance, starts to detect knock and then backs it off.

Most of that is just conjecture, I could be talking out of my you-know-what but I would think that having the ECU set up correctly for a pulley would be beneficial for a number of reasons.

I hear you on 'claims'. It is difficult without the resources of an OEM to do the levels of testing necessary to get SUPER accurate data. I mentioned in another post that my customers have reported a range of results for the same modification on a V8 Vantage. I guess the tendency is to pick the highest result and claim that this is the absolute result, but the best way IMHO is that the more results there are out there, from different cars on different dynos in different conditons, the more you can see which results are the outliers and where the median is.

The tuning process is quite simple. The tools we use are designed to pull a copy of the file that is stored on your car's computer. So our starting point is your exact file, with all the correct VIN, Chassis, Software numbers etc. Once that file is sent to our ECU Tuning team, they custom-write each file based on the instructions they get. In practice, most of it is the same (Please give me maximum performance) but they will take into account what modifications the car has or is getting installed. For example, from our experience with Astons, a car with headers & high flow cats needs a slightly different fuel trim than a bone stock one. Some of our Aston customers request things like 'switching off' the rear O2 sensors when they fit de-cat pipes, or changing the RPM at which the exhaust valves open & close. Or we have done Valet Maps before, where there's a 3500RPM limit imposed. Stuff like that.

To do just a tune would be $845 + shipping of the cable. We might need to do a little bit of digging just to confirm the specs on the pulley you have are the same or similar to what we have worked with ourselves but it should be do-able.
Stuart,

Thanks for taking the time to provide such a detailed reply. I completely agree that pairing the pulley and tune will provide the best possible results. In reality, almost any engine modification can be paired with additional tuning to take advantage of the full effect. You're right about how the car builds boost now- it goes come on more quickly, but I can't really say if it is bleeding anything off. I can say that the addition of the pulley got me another three tenths in the quarter mile, which was a better result that I had expected. I can also say with a reasonable amount of certainty that I'm not experiencing any timing retardation due to knock, specifically with respect to the pulley installation. I do however experience quite a bit of retardation due to heat. Once the IAT gets over about 120 degrees, the engine gets pretty conservative with timings. Unfortunately, all of my testing is pretty crude. I use an Android app called Torque to monitor all of the sensors it understands, but that's a far cry from the information the car is producing. I've tried to get a handle on the PID tables so I can better understand what's going on with the car, but haven't been successful.

In any case, I'm in the middle of a water/methanol project right now (yeah, the heat thing), but will reach out to you when I start looking to get the ECU figured out. Thank you again for the information.
 
  #26  
Old 05-17-2014, 04:25 AM
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Wouldn't a move to IDS/SDD with Mongoose JLR let you see whatever PIDs you like?
 
  #27  
Old 05-17-2014, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by JagV8
Wouldn't a move to IDS/SDD with Mongoose JLR let you see whatever PIDs you like?
Yes, it would certainly provide better monitoring. If you'd like to talk about it, i can spin off a new thread. I don't want to hijack this thread.
 
  #28  
Old 05-17-2014, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Rakka
Yes, it would certainly provide better monitoring. If you'd like to talk about it, i can spin off a new thread. I don't want to hijack this thread.
I would be interested in a thread on this. Thanks!
 
  #29  
Old 05-17-2014, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Stuart@VelocityAP
These are what we have available at the moment, so STR looks like a no, but XKR, XJ SC, XF-R all do-able.

· F
o 3.0 V6 250KW MED17.8.3
o 3.0 S V6 280KW MED17.8.3
o 5.0 S V8 364KW MED17.8.3
· XF
o 2.2 D 120KW EDC17CP42
o 5.0 V8 283KW DENSO
o 3.0 S/C V6 250KW MED17.8.3
o 2.2 D 147KW EDC17CP42
o R 5.0 V8 375KW DENSO
· XF SPORTBRAKE
o 2.2 D 120KW EDC17CP42
o 2.2 D 147KW EDC17CP42
· XJ
o 5.0 V8 283KW DENSO
o 5.0 S/C V8 375KW MED17.8.3
o SUPERCHARGED 5.0 V8 375KW DENSO
o 3.0 S/C V6 250KW MED17.8.3
· XK
o R 5.0 S/C V8 375KW MED17.8.3
o R 5.0 V8 375KW DENSO
o RS 5.0 S/C V8 405KW MED17.8.3
o 5.0 V8 283KW DENSO
Are these your own custom tunes or ones that you get from someone? The list looks just like the ones I purchase thru another company.
 
  #30  
Old 05-18-2014, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by JgaXkr
Are these your own custom tunes or ones that you get from someone? The list looks just like the ones I purchase thru another company.
If the list looks similar it is likely because the number of people & companies who actually develop the hardware & firmware to read & write to the ECUs, and the coding & map drivers is relatively small.

In our case, technically, yes we purchase the files from another company, but the company we purchase them from is a parent/sister company that owns 50% of VelocityAP. So yes, technically we purchase the files from our parent/sister company, but no we aren't buying in files from another source. Our parent/sister company has 2 full time members of staff who do nothing but write files and manage tuning operations. So if someone says to me, for example, I want a performance file for a V8 Vantage with 200 cell sports cats, headers and air filters, I want the RPM limit bumped by 300RPM and the exhaust valves to stay closed until 4500RPM, we can do that.

There are limits to what we are able to customize, either in terms of what map drivers are available, or the ROI on their/our time in identifying map locations and writing our own drivers.

So I think the answer to your question, is no, we don't 'buy in' files from external sources, but in the interests of transparency they do actually come from another one in a group of companies owned by the same parent company.
 
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  #31  
Old 06-05-2014, 11:26 AM
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Throwback Thursday!!! A clip of one of the first exhaust systems we developed back in 2008, 100% made in England, just like they are today. This 4.2L XF Supercharged was fitted with our 'Stage 2' setup - the X-Pipe Center Section:
Jaguar XF 4.2 & 4.2SC X-Pipe Center Section Exhaust Stainless

As well as our Sports Rear Mufflers:
Jaguar XF 4.2 & 4.2SC 'Sports' Sound Level Rear Exhaust System


 
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  #32  
Old 06-05-2014, 12:19 PM
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Sounds amazing. I am still debating on pulling the trigger on your tune after I take my wife to Charleston for her birthday. Mostly because Charleston is freakin expensive!

You said there are no available dyno results for the 5.0SC motor? I would be willing to do before / after baselines if I do snag a tune from you all.
 
  #33  
Old 06-05-2014, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by WRXtranceformed
Sounds amazing. I am still debating on pulling the trigger on your tune after I take my wife to Charleston for her birthday. Mostly because Charleston is freakin expensive!

You said there are no available dyno results for the 5.0SC motor? I would be willing to do before / after baselines if I do snag a tune from you all.
You could take her to DO the Charleston instead free up some budget!!!

Dynos would be super. We know that there's good power on tap, it will be great to start building a library of results.
 
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  #34  
Old 06-13-2014, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Cambo351
I doubt that very much, have you got any hard data to back this claim up?

EDIT

Never mind, I found out for myself.

The AJ126 V6 block is externally the same dimensions as the AJ133 V8 block, however the casting internally is different.

There are no "blanked off cylinders" it is cast with six cylinder bores. But yes the V6 is physically the same size as the V8.

Jaguar's 3 series fighter to get the F-Type's V6?

So I spoke with a Jaguar Service Manager today about a few things. Interesting info on the V6 Block. I asked him about the similarities between the 6 & 8, like do they machine the bores differently in terms of spacing, or are they centered in the block or what.

He told me that the V6 engine has 8 bores cut into the block, just like the V8 does, and in exactly the same places. They are blanked off from below so that they don't get pressurized through the crank-case and create weird internal air pressure stuff.
 
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  #35  
Old 06-19-2014, 10:09 AM
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not clear: do you offer tune and/or pulley upgrade for the 3.0 SC?
 

Last edited by yidal8; 06-19-2014 at 10:45 AM.
  #36  
Old 06-23-2014, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by yidal8
not clear: do you offer tune and/or pulley upgrade for the 3.0 SC?
We have tuning right now, but have not yet developed a pulley.
 
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