"Nothing" the dealer could have done...
#22
Well, then you can have them remove the injectors and have them professionally cleaned on the bench by one of the many companies that provide that service, like this one.
https://www.witchhunter.com/process2.php
https://www.witchhunter.com/process2.php
All good thoughts. I do plan to replace the battery as suggested. My concern with running any type of cleaner through the tank at this point is if all four injectors are really stuck open, and fuel is dumping in as a result, then I could do more damage to the catalytic while the "cleansing" tries to work. And if the oil is being tainted by this free gas flow as has been suggested above by Brutal that this could cause additional issues.
Bad news is that as mentioned before finding a mechanic that will work on Jags later than 2005 (that isn't booked solid into next month) is tough, to say the least. Anyone hear of or know of results of a service called yourmechanic? Supposedly certified techs that come to you with 12 month guarantee on work performed
Bad news is that as mentioned before finding a mechanic that will work on Jags later than 2005 (that isn't booked solid into next month) is tough, to say the least. Anyone hear of or know of results of a service called yourmechanic? Supposedly certified techs that come to you with 12 month guarantee on work performed
#23
The valves dont stick open but on direct injection injectrs the valves inside the injectors can stick open dumping fuel. And no there is nothing they could have done to cause this, it is nothing more than coincidence. While some recommend the whole bank since it all comes apart to replace one, extended warranty companies only pay for the one that sticks open. And yes to spark plug is fuel fouled and should be replaced too and i recommend another oil change because the fuel will dilute the oil than has gone past the rings. And then it takes somedriving to clean the fuel out of the exhaust system. Theyre ford(motorcraft) injectors
He's right. No way a brake job would cause this. I'm a tech for a jag/rover dealer and see a lot of these. No where near as common as the timing chain (and maybe why they had a tsb for this) noise though.
Main symptoms for direct injector stuck open is it'll throw misfire codes for all the cylinders on the bank the faulty injector is on because the faulty injector is dumping all the gas in that cylinder and starving the rest of the injectors , and you can literally smell and see all that fumes coming out of your exhaust.
All the injectors I and my coworkers have done, it's already misfiring at idle and not at rapid acceleration as you stated, but that may happen...
Before you could only buy a set of 4 injectors, but now you can buy a single one now. But if I remember right those injectors isn't cheap
Now it's your choice to replace 1 injector and pay nearly the same labor rate as doing 4 on 1 bank. But if you decide to do only 1 who's to say another injector would go bad, then you'd have to pay labor again to replace it.
This "coincidence" happens, It's happened to me, I've done a service on a jag, test drove it, then just so happens the coolant outlet pipe (another common issue) blows on me and, no the service has nothing to do with the outlet pipe blowing.
#24
Does not look like that outfit (witchunter) services DI injectors?
They are much different than the older port and throttle body injectors.
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.
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They are much different than the older port and throttle body injectors.
What we don't service:
- Diesel, takes completely different equipment.
- GM Truck Vortec CPI injector "spider" assemblies. These have the plastic hoses and poppet valves.
- GDI injectors, (Gasoline Direct Injection) these spray fuel directly into the cylinder and are normally used on a few high-end cars in the last 2 years.
- Diesel, takes completely different equipment.
- GM Truck Vortec CPI injector "spider" assemblies. These have the plastic hoses and poppet valves.
- GDI injectors, (Gasoline Direct Injection) these spray fuel directly into the cylinder and are normally used on a few high-end cars in the last 2 years.
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Last edited by clubairth1; 06-30-2018 at 02:38 PM.
#25
#26
#27
#28
I didn't say he had to do all.. 1-8 injectors is not a whole new drive train.
So what, if he has 15k miles. I've seen brand new cars missing head gaskets or needing motors.
#30
I am going to have to agree with some of the other members that the culprit may be a bad battery or a loose harness connection. I have not seen many failures such as yours. But I do know that low voltage or an intermittent voltage drop can cause ECM failures causing symptoms similar to what you are experiencing. I just worked on a new JK Jeep Wrangler which the dealer said was an engine problem. Upon closer diagnosis using a Fluke meter to record voltage fluctuations, I was able to find that the battery was defective. Many technicians now rely on diagnostic computers and onboard computer trouble codes. But in reality, they should be using their brain to decipher the real problems.
#31
"by one of the many companies that provide that service, like this one."
#32
#33
I am going to have to agree with some of the other members that the culprit may be a bad battery or a loose harness connection. I have not seen many failures such as yours. But I do know that low voltage or an intermittent voltage drop can cause ECM failures causing symptoms similar to what you are experiencing. I just worked on a new JK Jeep Wrangler which the dealer said was an engine problem. Upon closer diagnosis using a Fluke meter to record voltage fluctuations, I was able to find that the battery was defective. Many technicians now rely on diagnostic computers and onboard computer trouble codes. But in reality, they should be using their brain to decipher the real problems.
Last edited by Bigg Will; 07-04-2018 at 08:46 PM.
#34
Just to clarify the effect that a low battery can have, here is exactly what happened to my XFR.
I drove nearly 1,000 miles from the UK to France via the Eurotunnel. So, a good charge for the battery.
The following day I drove 13 miles to a local town. Stopped and started the engine at 2 shops. As I entered a roundabout, I dropped it into 1st gear and gave it a good bit of gas.
Half way round the roundabout, the car suddenly started running as though half of the cylinders were misfiring. I crawled off at the next exit and onto a layby. The engine by this time was sounding awful and the revs were up and down.
I stopped the engine and restarted it, but it was still running really rough.
I popped the bonnet/hood and disconnected the plugs from the airflow sensors, only because I noticed water on them from when I washed the car.
I connected them back up and started the car. It ran perfectly.
As the battery was the original, 7 years old, I bought a new one and have had no trouble since.
That's how sensitive these modern cars are to battery charge.
I hope you get it back in good health.
I drove nearly 1,000 miles from the UK to France via the Eurotunnel. So, a good charge for the battery.
The following day I drove 13 miles to a local town. Stopped and started the engine at 2 shops. As I entered a roundabout, I dropped it into 1st gear and gave it a good bit of gas.
Half way round the roundabout, the car suddenly started running as though half of the cylinders were misfiring. I crawled off at the next exit and onto a layby. The engine by this time was sounding awful and the revs were up and down.
I stopped the engine and restarted it, but it was still running really rough.
I popped the bonnet/hood and disconnected the plugs from the airflow sensors, only because I noticed water on them from when I washed the car.
I connected them back up and started the car. It ran perfectly.
As the battery was the original, 7 years old, I bought a new one and have had no trouble since.
That's how sensitive these modern cars are to battery charge.
I hope you get it back in good health.
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Bigg Will (07-05-2018)
#35
Update here. I finally had a conversation with the Manager of the service department and put forth my thoughts (based on many of the opinions here as well as the other independent mechanics that I spoke to). He had a conversation with the mechanic (who he claims is one of their most tenured and was trained in England) so that he could fully understand the logic behind the initial recommendation. I also know that Jag USA was involved and sent some questions along to the dealer as well, but I don't know what those questions were or the answers for that matter.
In the end, they identified that it was the number 7 injector stuck open and suspected carbon build-up as the likely cause. They further told me that because most of my driving is short hops that I don't get my engine up to the optimal operating temperature for long enough, and consequently the engine doesn't purge itself of these impurities (my words). They did two cycles blowing out the injectors and ultimately replaced injector 7 and spark 7. The coil, apparently, was fine. They also changed the oil. Jag USA covered a portion of the repair. When I picked up the car the service guy told me the whole shop smelled when they did the injector cleanings.
Now, it could just be the placebo effect, but so far the engine seems to purr almost like new. Fingers crossed, I'll be doing about 400 miles to Minneapolis here in a week. Still planning to get the battery checked and perhaps replaced as it's almost 8 years old.
In the end, they identified that it was the number 7 injector stuck open and suspected carbon build-up as the likely cause. They further told me that because most of my driving is short hops that I don't get my engine up to the optimal operating temperature for long enough, and consequently the engine doesn't purge itself of these impurities (my words). They did two cycles blowing out the injectors and ultimately replaced injector 7 and spark 7. The coil, apparently, was fine. They also changed the oil. Jag USA covered a portion of the repair. When I picked up the car the service guy told me the whole shop smelled when they did the injector cleanings.
Now, it could just be the placebo effect, but so far the engine seems to purr almost like new. Fingers crossed, I'll be doing about 400 miles to Minneapolis here in a week. Still planning to get the battery checked and perhaps replaced as it's almost 8 years old.
#39
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Damon /Houston, Texas
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#40
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Damon /Houston, Texas
Posts: 7,254
Received 2,195 Likes
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1,360 Posts
I think the key here is how fast your car went down hill. Do the simple stuff first, like checking for a loose or broken electrical connections, then try a hard reset (Battery disconnect overnight) then possibly a new battery if yours is old or suspect. These injectors are not cheap or easy to remove and replace (A special tool is needed), But I've never seen 4 injectors stick open at the same time, and if your injectors had all stuck open on the same bank you would have absolutely liquid locked that engine. Your sudden mis fire issues on one bank almost certainly points to an electrical gremlin.