This past Thursday I had mentioned elsewhere that I had my 5.0L in for it's annual oil change..but this time I had some coolant system work done and the underbelly pan needed to be removed...And low and behold, there it was, the mystery oil drain plug (13MM)..So I asked my Tech buddy if he would suck all the oil out like they usually do from the fill port, but afterwards, open the drain plug to see how much oil is still left in the bottom of the pan..the result was: about an 1/8 of a quart of dirty oil was still in there. Now I know my bottom of the pan is clear of any debris or whatever else that never gets sucked out completely...He ultimately refilled with 7.7 qts.




BTW..the rear differential has a drain and fill plug too...Nice to know.

 

The two plugs have never been a secret there are TONS of threads that talk about the oil plug with pictures. What no one has mentioned is taking the plug out after the vacuum work that is good info to know.

 

I have been doing oil changes on all my cars including my Jag. The hardest part is finding the required Castrol Jag specific oil. I had to order it on Amazon and have it sent to my work address. I also buy my filters from rockauto.com.

 

1/8 of a quart, that much. You do realize that the oil galleries have more than that which cannot be removed easily? Heck the oil pump alone will have more old oil in it than that.

It is a complete waste of time to try and remove all the old oil from the sump and makes no difference to the engine whatsoever.

 

Moderators..please lock this thread before it gets polluted again with BS from the North...thank you!

 

Good to know that you can do an even better job of changing the oil yourself without having to invest in a suction tool.

Does this forum, like others, have a way to hide posts from certain people? The constant stream of bad info coming from Jagular really does pollute this forum.

 

It does, go to user CP at the top of the page then edit ignore settings under settings and options.

 

Thanks!!

 

OMG! Not again.

 

You know, just because some of you do not like the Jagular and just because he make no sense on some things, and he has zero tact, DOES NOT MEAN HIS POINT IS LESS MEANINGFUL THAN YOURS! Please someone tell me why an 1/64 th of the oil being left in the oil pan is so bad. And then offer your data to prove it. Otherwise, you are bloviating just as much as you accuse him of.

My $.02.

BTW, DPK, did you have to special order the BRG? By 2012, they told me it was a "special special" order!

 

Let me just say first as a lot of us feel...His points could be useful, but he choses to deliver them in a condescending, self righteous, antagonistic, confrontational, contrary, know-it-all and belittling manner, thus making his points useless and unwelcomed..And it was 1/8 of a qt. and that contained every little bit of crap that was sloughed off the inside engine from new..very little movement at the bottom for the oil filter to strain out..just a point of knowing it is cleaner than before now...I thought I made that point pretty clear in my original post on this subject..not about how much damn oil is still up in puddles under the valve covers..blah, blah, blah..




As far as the Jag Color I got..I was lucky and found this on the back lot before prepping at the dealer in Plano Texas..They tried to use the; "Oh that color is special" bit to hike the price more, but I was able to negotiate a pretty darn good out the door price..

 

OK, but now that I have jumped into this fray, I will point out that there is no proof that the last 1/64th of the engine oil fill has all the "crap" that is left in the engine. And where doth this crap come from? Maybe we can get this thread really lively and debate the factory recommended 15,000 mile oil change interval again!

I have told jagular several times that I thought he was full of it, but I do not ask that he be censored, censured, or thrown off the forum.

And, I value your posts, but fight like a man!... don't cite "lots of us" Let the masses diss him themselves. After all, this is a "forum". I recommend you consider if your (and others) replys to him are not "condescending, self righteous, antagonistic, confrontational, contrary, know-it-all and belittling manner" whether he deserves it or not.

As we rednecks say, "Jus sayin!"

 

I speak for myself, but unless you haven't also seen, I'm not the only one who feels the way I do too..And, he usually draws first blood.


Obviously ( I mean this in the kindest way) you have never worked on anything mechanical and do not realize that initial break-in and normal wear and tear produce metal particles and other wear deposits that usually settle to the bottom of things and that would be at the very bottom of the Crankcase sump (oil pan)..The oil system pick-up is a little off the bottom so not to pick up these pieces of "CRAP" and so therefore remain there somewhat sludging up the bottom...over time, some of this "CRAP" does break lose and get mixed in with the main oil volume..You say then, 'well that's what the oil filter is suppose to take care of'..true, but in my **** mind I can see there is still "CRAP" floating around getting rubbed in between moving surfaces, aging the engine prematurely and I've seen it happen in all kinds of engines....


To hopefully put to rest your nagging quest for facts on this and not just understand that this is my own way of maintaining my engine..we put a magnet to this 1/8 of a quart of bottom oil and found it to be coated in fine metal particles...I just reported what I found and not trying to convince you or anybody else of what to do, or how to deal with it..it was merely an FYI post, nothing more, nothing less..you can deal with it anyway you want.


Where are you getting 1/64 from? and in the jagular fashion, that's only 3.8625 oz, 1/8 qt. is 4 oz......I said twice now, 1/8 of a QUART....I'm just kidding around now of course..<---note the redneck smile

 

Well, I suspect, but do not know, that I have been in far more engines, Jag and otherwise than you! I do not have "tech buddies" work on my engine, nor do I have water pumps changed by dealers (post warranty), whether I watch or not. So, again, you make statements with no basis of fact. And you are pretty condescending about that!

And let's try some simple math. 8 qts engine fill. 1/8th Qt. (1/8 of 8 is what?) Can you do the fraction?

And yes, some large chunks fall to the bottom. That is one of the reasons, as you state, that the pick up is off the bottom. I hope there are no chunks in my XFR.

So, I agree that there is a theoretical advantage to getting the last 1/8 qt (or 1/64th of the total) oil out. But I also know it is a small advantage. And certainly, Jaguar design engineers disagree with your position. So, while you have a point, it is not universally accepted and it is not even well argued, in my opinion, and does not give you the right to speak derisively of those who hold a different position. As you say, you do seem somewhat ****. And that's OK. Just don't get so offended if we all do not see it your way.

BTW, I have used factory recommended oil changes on most of my cars and have past 200,000 miles on more than 4 Jaguars and a bunch of other cars and pickups. I do all of my own post warranty maintenance and have been driving 25,000 miles plus every year for more than 40 years. I work on my wife's car and help on those of my friends. Try that math.

As I said, I do value your posts and those of most others. But lets argue without choosing sides instead of getting out the handbags and acting like the disagreement at the sewing circle.

OK, I am done.

 

You just don't get it..you are now sounding like jagular....Maybe a kin folk of yours....Try a fill of 7.6 qts..can YOU do the math?


I'm not challenging Jaguar's engineers or even your vast knowledge of arithmetic or auto experience. I do know now by your numbers you brag about, I got you beat by several years and more than likely several cars, unless you're Jay Leno..But I was not only referring to auto engines,,but you assumed that I did..good for you....Obviously you must also have to boast and prove yourself on every little subject rather than let it go....get this, I DON"T CARE what you think is theoretical or not..I just don't care..
What about FYI do you not understand?..


I grow weary of your nonsense now..

 

Back on topic.
I am yet to change the oil on the XFR (full service and oil change done 5 months and 5,000 k / 3,000 miles ago, so not due for a while yet), but when it's due I'll do it myself as I have done for the last 40 years.
And I'll be removing the undertray and dropping the old oil out via the sump plug, as I did twice on my old XFS.
Yes, this way may be a bit more mucking about than pumping it out from the top, but it's relatively easy and I can't find a half decent suction pump for under $100 here in Oz.
And I for one will be happier removing the last few dregs of old oil than leaving it behind.

 

With everyone talking about they have 40+ years of experience on hundreds of cars , I just can't understand why grown men in their 50's and 60's can't recognize the situation and be somewhat cognizant what the snippy comments will bring. Where do you all work that this is acceptable way to settle a disagreement?

In an effort to calm the restless, I tried to let Jagular know the way he responds causes issues. He responded that he doesn't give a **** and likes it that way. You all read it too, so why do any of you think you will get him to change?

I find it tiring and boring when the multiple responses from all of you turn into multiple responses from Jagular, which drag into pages of insults and bravado, but I can't exclude any of you from the app because you all bring knowledge I welcome and need

So why don't we get the six or so of you who continue this banter to meet in Chicago (or somewhere between the Great White North and the rest of us), pull down your pants, and get a ruler to prove whose is bigger. And let the rest of us get back to discussing and learning about our Jags!

 

Not to fan any flames, but i did read an article a few days ago saying Chevy is telling new corvette owners to get their first oil change at 500 miles due to the gunk from the break in period causing engines to fail (I'm on my cell or would link the article, it's on jalopnik.com) After reading that, I'm inclined to agree with dpk about making sure it's totally cleaned out. Had a shop do mine a few weeks ago with the pump method , first time i hadn't changed my own oil in 13 years. Feels wrong! Thanks to this post I'll do my own next time

 

I see no reason to use different phraseology. I should've thought my forum name sufficient warning that I call a spade a spade. Technically, I never "draw first blood" an illuminating choice of words. If someone can show that I posted unkindly other than by reply to a personal remark (technically ad hominem argument) I owe you an apology as I never do so unless by oversight. I do tend to respond in kind though.

As for 1/8 of a quart, that is a small amount by any measure. U.S. quarts are 32 oz I believe. 1/8 of that is 4 oz. For the home economists among us that's a tiny amount (half a cup ). If Imperial is your flavour then a quart is 40 oz and 1/8 is of course 5 oz, a tiny amount. Nobody in the world uses imperial fluid ounces except Canadian cooks. In ml which will be universally understood outside America 1/8 of a litre would be 125 ml about halfway between American and Imperial.

Now everyone can clearly visualize this tiny amount let us explore the utility of removing same. No car manufacture specifies flushing old oil from the oil galleries during an oil change, although that is technically feasible and is usually done when changing automatic transmission oil to renew the torque converter contents.

Very few manufacturers now specify a break in oil change. It is a big surprise to hear that Corvette does. Modern tightly built emission controlled engines are remarkably clean and break in ring wear is minimal compared to the old days. Apart from ring wear resulting from the bedding in of rings there is no possible source of internal contamination in a modern engine except water and raw fuel. If you looked at the spark plugs (now specified with 100,000 mile change intervals) or the innards of your nice heated and dry exhaust systems which now last for decades even though made only from aluminized steel (stainless exhausts are a complete waste of money now) you would realize that engine engineering, filters and oil have all moved on.

Finally, there is no possibility of particulates moving from the sump into the engine until the filter fails or bypasses. Ring wear particulates are trapped in the filter. Any particle small enough to pass through the filter is harmless to the engine. Indeed, changing the oil before the specified interval on a new engine may slow the bedding of the rings. There is no evidence that synthetic oil ever breaks down within the current specified change interval of 15,000 miles. Testing reported elsewhere shows no deterioration at all, none, over mileages well in excess of that number. We're it not for water contamination usually resulting from short trips oil change intervals could be much much longer. For diesels the fuel contamination issue cannot be addressed at the moment.

The current limit of oil service life is determined mainly by the filter capacity and secondarily by the probability of water contamination. For diesels add the probability of fuel contamination due to its lower volatility, especially in winter, leading to the current conservative time interval specified by most (but not all) manufacturers of one year. The original Mini specified a minimum time interval of two years. I note VWAG sells oil filters marked "24 months" on them.

Those are the facts, plainly stated. Have at 'er.

 

8 litres which is a bit more than 8 quarts are required to fill an empty engine.

Approximately 6.5 litres fills an engine from which the sump has been drained and the filter renewed. Approximately.

If you do the maths you will discover that your 4oz painstakingly drained from your sump is less than 1/64 of the total engine oil in a properly filled engine. It would also reveal that the 4oz is less than 1/8 of the "dirty" (but filtered) oil that remains after you have removed that tiny amount.

Those are the facts and only the facts.