Hello everyone this is my first post here so I hope this hasnt been beaten to death in here already. I have recently been on a search to replace my 06 BMW 330i with an 09-10 335i or 535i which lead me to a local Jaguar dealer yesterday to see a 335xi which wasnt the right car, but on my way back to my car I was stopped by the salesman. Usual stuff ensued until about 20 min later I was driving a '11 XF. Until yesterday I was really only considering BMW, Audi and Porsche (but try to find a nice, newer one in my price range, hah!), Jag wasnt even on my radar as I thought they were soft and squisly luxury cars for old people (though I have to admit I'd always liked the styling of the previous generations XJ's, kinda of classic).

After looking the car over and driving I was impressed. So of course the usual sales pitch, the "what if I got you "x" are you ready to purchase, etc took place but I told them I wasnt going to make a decision on the spot. I didnt really expect that from a Jag dealer, havent seen that at BMW or Porsche. My budget is $30-40k including my trade and they had 3- cars they were pushing:

09 XF- black/tan (not my first choice), nicer wheels, nav, 66k miles asking $29.9k
09 XF Supercharged- black/black (more like it!), loaded, *might* have been CPO but not sure asking $39.9k
11 XF- silver/black, service loaner with 6700 miles, cold weather pkg, backup camera, base wheels asking $45k but finance manager out of no-where says "offer him $42500 I bet he'll take it since its month end".

After some research on Edmunds these prices dont seem real far off for dealer retail and I like the idea of CPO. How do the prices sound to the experts here?

Also wondering what you can tell me about service costs / frequency, reliability, MPG, performance, handling, etc (good and bad) since I have to admit to being a bit ignorant on the newer Jags, but Im a car enthusiast and a former mechanic (when I was in my early 20's).

Sorry for the novel for my first post, but thanks in advance for any / all info!


Chuck

 

Chuck,
I just did the same thing when I was looking for a replacement for my '07 530i. I have owned 4 Bimmers and I loved the quality, engineering, reliability, affordability and fuel economy from the straight 6 3.0L engine. I've worked on cars my entire life and pulled/replaced several engines on my early cars in high school.
I don't like to buy new luxury as they are too expensive, overpriced and you can knock 20-30K off the top after 2-3 years (with warranty left!). That being said, the 5 series body didn't change until '11 and those are still very expensive. You only get 300HP from the Twin Turbo 3.0L and the torque is not impressive. Worse than that, it's the first MY for the new 5 and I always stay away from first year.
I saw an XF on the road and began to research. I loved the exterior styling, power and price of the XF Premiums. The MPG's for the 5.0L weren't very different from the Twin Turbo BMW 3.0L, but the power was way better! The XF is about 500 lbs heavier than a 5, but it feels much more nimble; the XF does not understeer as bad as the BMW 5. You also have a great Sport mode on the ZF transmission combined with Dynamic mode, paddle shifters and a Direct Injection V8! 385 HP is easily felt in the XF with great torque through out the power band.
XF's tend to lag behind the rest of the luxury car companies wrt creature comforts and integration with media. The touch screen is slow and clunky; streaming blue tooth audio did not come until the MY12 XF. Satellite radio is standard from '10 and on. Most of the other big names (BMW, Audi, etc.) have been doing these things for more than 5 years now.
I just picked up my '10 XF Premium w/ Portfolio package 26K miles for $36.2K. It was a great price and earlier than I was expecting. I usually get a 3 year old model because that's when the leases come up.
Good luck bro. It's a great car and you'll love it!

 

So unless I go with an 11 or newer there is no Bluetooth? So no smartphone integration? What about iPhone / iPod connectivity? That could be a deal breaker right there! I had to add the adapter to my BMW, but my wifes newer Ford SUV with Synch / Nav has much better integration then even my BMW (which isnt to bad).

Any opinion on the asking prices for the cars I listed? They all seem to be about $2-4k high from what I can see, I just dont want to over pay as I tend to turn cars over every 2 - 3 years. But they are usually paid for long before trade time comes.

 

Welcome Chuck. Take a look at the very good factory warranty the 2011's have. 5 years or 50,000 miles from original registration date. OR, if it has already been registered by the dealer, have them give it a "Select Edition" factory warranty...6 years or 100,000 miles from original registration date.
Good luck and congrats on "stepping up" to a Jaaaaag.

Welcome to you also..F14JLYRGR. Looks like both of you have stepped up to the wonderful world of Jaaaags. You'll find these creatures grow on you and you won't go back to the mundane...


Both of you should go to the new members section and introduce your selves...

 

Jaguar XF and current 550 will be the same weight. The biggest difference even with the lowly 528 is still only around 250 lbs. no way a BMW weighs 500 lbs less than an XF.

Unless ultimate acceleration is on your list the best XF is the 5.0 non supercharged.

These cars are well built and reliable.

 

Welcome aboard!

The price is too high on the first one. No good.
The price is too high on the supercharged model as well, unless it has 5,000 miles on it.
The same goes for the loaners. My local jag dealer has 2011s for 39,xxx.

You will probably get better deal a week before the fiscal year/term ends for Jaguar, which i believe is July 30th. Somone correct me if i am wrong.

 

Jugular,
You are right on the 2011 BMW 535i weight being same as the XF. I was speaking about my '07 530i. The HP on the 5.0L crushes the Twin Turbo 535i, but fuel economy, of course, is worse. Not too different, but a little lower on the XF. Personally, I love the XF styling, power and handling. In my research I found all MY's have the iPod connector, but Satellite Radio came as an option on the '09, standard on '10 and up. I don't think Streaming Blue Tooth Audio came until '12.

 

Sorry...no offense...I meant Jagular, but Jugular seems fitting too!

 

So no streaming BT audio, not to big of a deal if it has an iPod connector. But can you use the phone (iPhone) via BT in cars older then 12?

I was doing some online research and found out that this car is based on the steel chassis used for the Taurus/MKS/S-Type not a newer aluminum chassis, is this true? The Ford's are front or AWD cars though. I did thiink the HVAC and radio controls looked a bit like something out of a recent Lincoln, hmmmm.

The 385hp 5.0L made more power than you can really use fully on the street so thats not a concern, Im sure even at only 320hp in the 09 its fast enough. My big concern is the handling characteristics of the car, while it was firmer than I thought I cant imagine it can really hang with a BMW (Sport pkg) at least at the limits, though I may be wrong. I did watch a video on YouTube comparing the 550i to the XF (I think it was '10's) and the XF appeared to have a lot more body roll and I believe .82 compared to .87 on the skidpad. Sure in commuting the #'s mean nothing (to a point) but I would like a car I can take to 1 or 2 track days a year and have some fun (not looking for a real race car obviously). Though I wonder if the 550i Sport is really more of a direct competitor to the S/C XF given the better brakes, suspension and tires / wheels?

After looking on TrueDelta it seems the Jag's report on average 50% more repair issues than Jaguar and have less likelihood to be lemons. TO be fair there was much less data reported on the XF so a few bad experiences could skew the results much more then the BMW's. I know it sounds like Im being harsh on the XF, I'm really not trying to be. I guess some part of my mind is brand loyal to the roundel and its fighting with the other part that is open to change.

One last thing, so none of the cars is worth close to asking price? Bummer. The S/C and 11 are Select CPO cars the 09 is not. So what prices are you guys seeing, or better yet paying for similar cars? So a never titled 11 with under 7k miles should be no more than 39995? Seeing as its a $57k car thats a big hit in depreciation. Do they continue to depreciate that fast as they age too?

I need to work on being a bit less wordy, just I have so many questions.

 

If you want the better handling car, you need to get a S/C. The 2011's as far as I know have a limited slip differential, and a sport supsension. Based on my test drives of S/C 2011's and non-S/C it's a significant difference. If you are looking at a 2011 or newer 5 series you need to get ARS to avoid the body roll. Not sure about pre-2011 5 series. It would be great if they offered the handling upgrades on the 385 hp. Maybe some here with more Jag experience could weigh in on these differences. Also don't know if it's easy to upgrade springs or anti-roll on jags.

 

For a pre 2012, the Ipod connector cable may need to be bought, but the facility is there. In my experience, BT audio quality sucks anyway, I would always have a direct connection. Especially if you find a car with the B&W upgrade - that is the best in car audio I have ever heard! And yes, you can use the BT for phone in pre 2012 models. It works very well.

I would try and find a 5.0 NA - I had one as a loaner for my XFR and was massively impressed. It is all the XF you really need. Sadly, the seat bases are unsupportive in the pre 2012 models, but coming from a non M BMW I doubt you will notice!

Good luck!

 

XF is steel except for the hood and trunk lid which are both riveted aluminum. Glue is also used between the aluminum panels to prevent flexing but the rivets hold the inner and outer panels together, plus the edges are rolled over. This is all done by robot, fascinating to watch. The blind tubular aluminum rivets flare inside the body panel to provide an invisible join as strong as any spot weld.

The structure of the XF is based on the S Type/ Lincoln LS but improved by Jaguar. The suspension is exactly as for the much more expensive XK. There is no Sports suspension per se. There are electronically controlled shock absorbers on higher trim models. I am not sure if the XFR gets stiffer springs but I doubt it. The standard XF requires no suspension modification at all. The main differences are the tires which can be fitted to an XF and the continuously variable damping which improves the ride while preserving the sharp handling.

An XF is not suitable as a track car but then neither is a BMW. Body roll will be excessive in either case and the BMW brakes will definitely not be track suitable. The XF brakes should handle the loads imposed by the track. The ride on the Jaguar will be vastly superior to the BMW.

 

All good info, thanks. Im surprised this car rolls on such an old platform, the LS came out in 99 but sound like it is modified quite a bit. I have to be honest, one thing that is putting me off on the car is the dealer, they are being pretty pushy. They think they have gold sitting on their lot I believe. They want the same money for an '11 Luxury as an 09 Supercharged. I did drive by tonight just to see the cars again, nice cars, but I didnt get out of mine.

 

Check Autotrader.com for one. Don't be afraid to travel to get one or use the pricing listed online to lower the local dealers price. I paid $36k for a 09 SC with 27k miles (100k warranty) on it but that was a steal. Used car prices are raising lately due to the cost of new cars being so high.

Based on your track comments, I say get a 2009 SC the price will be much lower than the newer versions. The rim/tire/brake combo on the SC models is fantastic and the SC model comes fully loaded. Find one with low miles and if you can get one with a 100k warranty it's worth paying a few k more for.

The gear selector issue is what tanked the reliability ratings. Jaguar revised the gear selector to prevent a cold solder joint that was causing the issue. I had some minor issues with the old selector but after the new part was installed it's been perfect.

 

I agree with Blackcog and I also have an 09 XFSC but I paid 38K with a Certified Pre-owned Warranty from the dealer. I found the exact same car at a local independent outlet but NO warranty even though they offered a third party extended warranty that was very expensive and not handled by a reputable dealer. But I am on the West coast so everything is more expensive here. Oh, and BTW if you find one with a later "registered DMV date" then this just extends the warranty longer....every little bit helps.

 

For new car prices www.truecar.com

For used car prices www.kbb.com

 

You want old platforms, shell out for an Aston Martin DB9 or DBS. That's based on the XJS platform from the 70's!

Mind you, that platform was way ahead of its time when first engineered and has been constantly updated.

 

Find me a a newer DBS for under $40k and Ill take it.

Im not sure what Im going to do because my "car schizophrenia" is kicking in. Given the price of these XF's I can get an 08 Porsche Boxster for the same or less money. Im sure its slower than a S/C XF but Im sure the handling and fun to drive factor is in a different league (as its a totally different class of car). Im just not sure I can live with such a small car daily. Sorry to get off track. Ive poked around autotrader but Ill give it another look tonight, but I have noticed that the selection of "high end" cars (550, 335 coupe, XF's, Boxster, 911) are pretty scarce thus the prices tend to be a bit high. However you can find 328's, C250's and A4's are dime a dozen.

A scan of Autotrader last night tuns up XF S/C's basically in the $38 - 42k range (with B&W, nav, etc) except for a few in the low to mid 30's at independent dealers.

 

I did a quick search on Jag's site seems except for a couple in the $36k range all the 09 S/C's are in the $38-40+ range.

I got 2 calls from the dealer today, they are determined to sell me a car but its almost annoying. They dropped the price on their 09 Supercharged to $38495, down from $39995. Makes me think that it probably could be had for $37000 +/- which is actually a bit tempting. I wonder if I should drive it and see what its like?

 

Be ready to buy if you do drive it.