Good morning all!


Long time lurker here. I had a XFR a few years ago and purchased an XFRS in June of last year after ordering it in December of 2013, call it a dream car purchase. Unfortunately, I've had a plethora of issues with the RS since I purchased it and I am in the process of working on lemoning it, unfortunately. It is a fantastic car, when it works, but mine seems to be a bit, well, off.


Long story short, from day one, the TPMS system has bee incredibly flaky. It wouldn't work, the warning light would come on a lot, and my tires wouldn't be watched. I actually had a flat tire it didn't warn me about. If anyone remembers Ford and Firestone, there are 4 very good reasons why this is now a Federally mandated safety device:


http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/ruli...005/part1.html


Yes, I agree, it isn't as important as say brakes, but it serves a purpose. For the Texas Lemon Law to apply, the reason has to be a safety related devices or a diminished value claim. Who would buy a $100k car with a warning light on? And my car has been back 6 times to get resolved and still has the error...


So, my pondering. The last time it was there, the Jaguar factory technician said it was because of my cell phone that the receiving unit was having issues. He stated that in ALL XF models, the unit is near the 12v plug in the slot in front of the cup holders and my phone was causing interference. It is a relatively new model phone, not an old Razr or something with less shielding. I find this rather difficult to believe because the people I know with a XF all keep their phones in the same slot as it is really the place that makes sense, but I wanted to check with the rest of the community. The error isn't constant, it happens about once a week, with or without my phone in the slot, or even my phone on my person (sometimes it is in my laptop bag in the trunk). If it was my phone, it should interfere with the TPMS unit predictably/consistently, but I want to check with everyone.


SURVEY
Where do you keep your phone/smartphone in the car when driving?
Have you ever had a TPMS error appear on your dash? (An example is attached in a picture)


Unfortunately, like I said, I've also had a plethora of other issues with the car causing it many trips to the dealer without resolution, but this one is the most persistent/concerning/repeatable and I wanted to gather some more information to see if it is an unrealistic expectation on my part on where I keep my phone that it causes problems with the car.


Thanks!

 

I have used a Blackberry Torch for 3 months, then a Model ME305LL/A I-phone for 9 months since, in my MY 12 XFR. I always lay the phone on or in the console and connect with either a USB connector or a Apple or Duracell charger. I have about 30,000 miles covered in that time.

I have had three occurrences of a period of TPM warnings. Two were actual slightly low pressures, and one was TPM sensor failure because I was running the spare. That means that my TPM has worked flawlessly with the cell phone in place.

I would say the tech is as full of it as a Christmas Goose.

I would encourage you to get his "explanation" in writing. If he will not do so, even on the service ticket, then you should immediately ask his management why they offer this excuse, but will not do so in writing! Also, ask if there is a TSB to this effect. Even if the cellphone is the root cause, then, assuming the cellphone is working correctly, Jaguar has an obligation to shield their circuits and prevent interference from other equipment

 

I place my razr maxx in the compartment with the 12V outlet in front of the cup holders. I did have the low tire pressure warning when I first got the car. I filled the tires to the recommended tire pressure and I haven't had any issues since.

 

TPMS is not a tire checker system. It only notifies you when a 3lb. drop of pressure. The manual also says not to use tire monitor systems in lieu of personally checking pressures. Once a week or with fill-ups of fuel. The system will not record or tell you of a blow out as the pressure decrease is too quick.

 

Larry:
Let me understand! You are implying that the tire pressure sensor not working on a $90K car after 6 fixes is no big deal? And given that the car has low profile Z rated tires, that it does not impact the safety of the car? And that the value of the car is not diminished by having a yellow triangle glowing on the dash?
Hmmh...

 

I think if you read Larry's post with a neutral mindset, you will see that he is commenting on the actual operation and limitations of the TPMS system.

And yes, actually getting out a tire pressure gauge is undoubtedly more reliable.

TPMS is for the same class of driver that caused the introduction of TPMS in the first place.

 

plums:
Well, in the first place, the thread was not started about the value of the TPMS for accurate pressure monitoring. It was specific for gathering information concerning experience with cell phones for argument with the dealer, and did mention the proposition that TPMS was a safety device.

Secondly, while I do tend to agree with you about folk's lack of care being the need for tire pressure monitoring, the fact is that cars with low profile tires can be more of a problem with low pressure. And, most leaks I have had due to nail punctures cause a significant tire pressure change in much less that one week mentioned as a good practice.

I do not check my pressure at every fillup, not do I see many others doing so, so I sorta like knowing within minutes if my pressure is dropping. And I woiuld be really pissed off if the dealer could not fix the system on my car during the warranty period.

 

I have the same issues in my 2011 XF SC. I have changed phones since I bought the car and the issue remains. I even pondered if this was one of the battery gremlin issues because it may come up driving to somewhere and not when driving back, thinking battery is now fully charged.

I have random front right tire TPMS warnings come on and then switch to TPMS monitoring systems errors. So I have red and amber switching errors and warnings on the display.

I had that one sensor in the tire replaced as well as the the entire TPMS module.
As per my service guy I have had every single software update applied to my TPMS module. The problem persists.

I think the phone interference is a crock of .... but I will make a point and keep my phone powered off when I drive to see if it reappears. Current phone is a Samsung S5 and is usually laying on the seat or when my wife drives in her purse, rarely in the center console.

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone!


TPMS is one of those weird things to me because I do agree, it isn't a substitute for a good pressure gauge and a vigilant and responsible driver. Just like a temperature or oil pressure sensor, however, it is there to help drivers because conditions change while driving. I do a lot of long-distance driving and it is a bit of extra security knowing my low-profile tires are at least close to the recommended settings. I check them regularly as a course of action, but we have highways here in Texas where the speed limit is 85mph. At those speeds, a slow leak can get dangerous quickly.


Maybe a bit frustrating is that I've had rental cars like a Malibu and a Kia that have better sensors than the Jag, but I'd rather have the other features on the car if I had to choose. Just an idiot light is fine, but on this kind of car, it isn't something a piece of black tape can cover up.


And yes, my main concern is that at least once a week, sometimes for a day or two at a time, there is a bright yellow (or red, I also get the tire warning what Schwabe says) error on the dash. For a luxury car, this is unacceptable. For a much, much cheaper car, I would still question its value. I would say safety is of a secondary concern, but with two young kids in the back seat, I want them as safe as possible with every tool. The blind spot system, rear view camera, outstanding brakes, are all important as well.


If it was JUST the TPMS system, I would probably be a bit more lenient. But I have had several other problems with the car that has also been back several times for, but this one is the only problem where they said it was caused by something not their responsibility (in a nutshell). While I could believe it is interference, it would probably be something from inside the car like bad shielding on another Jag device which would be more than a nightmare for them to fix.


Again, I do appreciate everyone's feedback!

 

What is infuriating is that I/You have a warning/error pop up on the screen that you cannot clear and you become somewhat less sensitive to warnings popping up. You also lose information on your screen which is now occupied by the warning.

 

And, even if the root cause is a cell phone, if that cellphone is operating within the radio emissions specifications for cell phone devices, then Jaguar should have shielded for it, since it is a completely reasonable expectation that cellphones will be used in the passenger cabin. They have an interface to it from the entertainment center, don't they?

 

Considering the TPMS systems operate on either 315MHz or 433MHz (depending on brand) and are encoded to specific TPMS IDs, and cell phones operate at 850/900/1,800/1,900 MHz (GSM) or 800MHZ (CDMA), it is highly improbable that the cell phone is causing interference.

I had issues with mine "skipping around" random "tire low" warnings between all the wheels. Dealer reflashed the firmware, reset the system, and I've had no problems since.

Following quote from neworkworld.com
"The TPMS system uses either the 315mhz or 433mhz frequency and does uses encoding but not encyption. A unique ID is burned in to every sensor (kind of like a MAC address). It is this address that the system uses for addresses and each sensor registers with the cars ECU at either the factory or the dealer using "special" tools. The numbers are supposed to be unique so if your TPMS RF picks up sensors from a car driving next to you the system knows it should ignore those signals because they are not registered to it. The TPMS system usually accommodates up to 10 sensors at a time. This is so if you have a set of snow tires you don't have to go to the dealer and have them relearn your sensor IDs twice a year.
It is important to note that by design the TPMS system sensors are only active when the car is moving faster than 20mph (based on tire rotation speed), a "special" low frequency transmission is received , or a magnet is applied nearby. Once active the sensors send their pressure info once every minute unless there is a problem (like rapidly decreasing pressure).

 

Sounds like a load of crap to me.

FWIW, had a 10 XFR and now have a 14 XFR-S. Have used various iPhones with both, with phone in a variety of locations including centre console, driver's door pocket, passenger seat etc., never with any TPMS issue.

 

My main point is that no matter what type of TPMS system you have it will not let you know of a blow-out. In a blow-out the pressure release is instantaneous and TPMS cannot do anything until it's over. As for a reset on problem, call Jaguar North America and get a Regional Service Rep at shop when you are there. There is no such thing as cannot be fixed. I run a car on track with TPMS (stock) with no problems, only because I check pressures regularly. I have a 2 new cars with TPMS and check monthly as climate changes can effect tire pressure by 10 degrees. If all 4 tyres loose equal pressure TPMS will not come on and that leaves you with a probable over-inflation or under-inflation situation that can kill someone as tyres let loose due to over heat from incorrect pressures. Diss me if you want, I do have 49 yrs. experience on Jaguars.

 

I sure didn't diss you Larry, I just pointed out that the problem at hand was not the value of TPMS. And respectfully,sir, I agree, the value of TPMS for a blow out after it has started to happen is ZERO, as is checking your tire pressure at your last fill up.

And, please help me understand the temperature change that will result in a 10 psi pressure change. Chemistry is not my forte, but my calculation shows a 116degree F temperature change will cause a pressure rise from 30 psig to 40 psig, right?

 

From what I understand it is 1 lb. for every 10 degrees of temp change. Sunny side of car can be 5 lbs. different than cool side. We measure tire temps in SOLO and Racing to find the median for grip. Not trying to be difficult but Dealer should be able to fix your problem. I would think with replacing all TPMS sensors with new and resetting your diagnostics. I would still call JagNA and get a service representative to your location as no dealer should never say it cannot be fixed. I use cell phones in everything with no problem, that is why car comes with Bluetooth capacity.

 

Jaguar sent a factory tech to look at the TPMS system and other problems as well. They have replaced everything related to the TPMS system (sensors, sending/receiving unit, etc), flashed and re-flashed, and still don't have an answer for why it keeps failing. I felt their interference claim was them giving up because they're out of options of parts to replace or patch. Finding one bit of intermittent interference may be cost prohibitive to them as far as a service call goes, so I will see what they do in regards to the Lemon claim, unfortunately. The internal logging software for the system does continuously show errors for all 4 tires, so there is a problem, they can't isolate where it is.


Is it unfixable? Not sure as I would think that is highly implausible, unless it was an manufacturing defect such as a loose wire that would be incredibly challenging and cost prohibitive for them to discover and resolve for a service call. As a consumer, at this point, this is why the Lemon law exists so they can fix it on their dime and let me move on.


At this point, as Schwabe says, I pretty much ignore any warning my car throws out now. It cries wolf so often I don't know when/if it is a real problem or not. I am fortunately a bit **** about my cars, so I do check pressure regularly anyway, but as far as value of car as well as working as it should, this isn't the best experience for me or who I may sell it to.


Just for the record Momentum Jaguar here in Houston has done a fantastic job to treat me right and work with me to resolve the issues. The team there, including the sales side of the house, has tried to make sure they do their best to keep me informed. Jaguar itself seems to have no idea at this point and the car just seems like a bad one of the lot...

 

I recently had an issue with my TPMS system. Randomly reporting low pressure for different tires and then complete TPMS failure.
After a couple visits to my Jaguar dealership, I was given a XF as a loaner and I experienced the same TPMS faults. what I found to be a common denominator between my Jag and the loaner was my USB charger that I had just recently purchased from AT&T accessory store. I verified that was the cause by removing and reinserting it. It didn't matter whether I had any devices connected or not. Since removing the USB charger from my vehicle I have not had a single instance of a TPMS failure. I have purchased a USB charger from Amazon and that particular device has not caused any faults.

FYI, I also experienced a TPMS fault on my '07 Honda Odyssey a couple times
while using that same USB Charger, and not a single occurrence on my '08 Toyota Prius.

So, if you ask me if the cell phone is causing the problem, i have to say no, but an accessory for a cell phone can.

 

Someone said it will not notify you of a blow out?

I hit a pothole 3 months ago driving in the Chicago streets, and immediately it popped up red/yellow "caution low pressure front driver's side".

I pulled into a gas station and a gentleman pumping gas pointed out my flat tire.

If I paid $90k+ for the brand new XFR-S and that was popping up consistently it would kill my new car "buzz" too.

Hope the OP gets it worked out.

 

Hi Dougs12SC,
Any chance you remember the usb charger brand?
Is it Scosche reVOLT c2 Low Profile Car Charger- Dual 2.1A USB?
The reason i ask is i have a 2012 XF and it is doing the same thing. I am in Houston and the dealership is suggesting it to be bluetooth. I have also purchased a charger recently from att. I will test if that is the culprit this week. I am stumped as it comes on with either my or wife's phone. they are both made by LG though.
Another thing i had sitting in the cupholder was the tolltag. Just ruled that out yesterday. Once the error triggers it takes around 15+ miles of driving to clear it. Stopping and starting does not clear it when the criteria changes which is very frustrating when debugging.