I doubt there will ever be a meeting of minds on this subject, but bear in mind that too much information can also be an issue.

If you were driving and your "low coolant" warning came on, but your temperature gauge stayed in the normal zone, what would you do? Might you be tempted to carry on thinking the leak was minor, and watching the temp gauge?

The last time I had a catastrophic coolant loss (bottom radiator hose split), there were no warning signs for a couple of minutes until the engine got so hot the sensor, now not surrounded by fluid, eventually heated up and sent the gauge needle into the red. No protection at all for a significant cooling system failure unless you have low coolant warning. If your thermostat fails closed, or you have a waterpump failure, you'll still get a warning about over temperature since most of the coolant sensors seem to be in the head. It seems that the current level of instrumentation would cover all the failure modes of the system. You seem to be assuming that the cars warnings will only come on if the temperature has reached a critical point - I doubt that's the case.

I suspect Jaguar just want you to know what they feel you need to know at the time, and then take the appropriate action as specified by the warning or the manual. One thing my service advisor did say was that if you ever get a temperature or coolant warning, stop the car as soon as possible.

 

For those interested, there has been much discussion of the 'dumb' gauges used for about 15 years on most Jags before they completely did away with gauges altogether, see: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...e-gauge-62813/

 

I thought you weren't reading any of my posts either. How gratifying you have resumed your education.

With paddle shifts it is useful to have a tachometer although I can drive just as well without one.

Fuel gauges are still essential even with a range to empty read out. The range to empty uses a running average fuel consumption calculation. This works well unless you change average speed significantly. Then you need the fuel gauge reading as well to judge when to refuel.

I think you miss the point entirely. Manufacturers have not fitted actual temperature gauges for quite some time. The gauges currently used display only a modified input more or less equivalent to an idiot light. The gauge only moves as the engine reaches boil over point.

I do wonder if Jaguar has an overheat message on the instrument panel if the engine is overheating?

Finally, modern engines will throw a CEL if the engine runs too cool. As far as I know it may throw a code if the engine runs too hot although unless the engine is actually boiling over it should run as hot as possible for efficiency.

Bottom line, no driver needs to know what temperature his engine us running at. Only the ECU needs to know. Being able to watch a little needle on a gauge that only moves if catastrophe is approaching does not have anything to do with driving or "involvement" whatever that may mean.

 

Here we are again....Jeeesh.

By all means argue your points if necessary or why not just agree to disagree?

Personally I can see the arguements on both sides....

 

All that is required is to state your views. If you type the words "you are wrong" then you go too far, IMHO.

The whole point if these boards is to communicate your views. Then readers who may not even post, can get the information and decide whether it is useful or not.

Jaguar chose to delete the temperature gauge. That's a fact. Does it matter? Maybe, maybe not. What are the facts? Temperature gauges haven't displayed actual coolant temperature for at least a decade and probably two decades now. Engines don't overheat anymore as the control systems are so reliable.

 

So how is the driver supposed to know, when the low coolant light comes on, how long he has to pull over? Every high performance car I have ever owned has had a temperature gauge. Is their something in the 2011 xf owners manual to tell the owner if the low temperature light comes on pull over right away the car has overheated???

 

See the section boxed in red:



Graham

 

LOL - As you are the champion of the "you are wrong" crowd, it is truly laughable that you say that it goes too far when it is said of you.

So, now, you say it may or may not matter - that's a far cry from your original dogmatic (as usual) position. It obviously DOES matter to the people who care about the issue, and your dismissiveness (especially when you are "in error") continues to be offensive - I will continue to point this out to you until you learn some degree of proper decorum. I therefore anticipate pointing things out for quite some time, and look forward to continuing my "education" with you.

You didn't even remember that the XF in sport dynamic mode will not auto shift at redline, and you "bounced the limiter," thinking you had "broken the engine" (LOL!)... I guess that "useful" tach is not that useful to you and should be deleted on your future cars as well.

 

Opps, a Problem..we don't have carriageways in the US...Now what?

 

That "carriageway" term seems a bit archaic even for UK English usage! Seems like "motorway" would be the more contemporary term. At least Jaguar remembered to edit out the part noting that you should take care to avoid horses while pullling over...

 

A Motorway is a dual carriageway. However, some A roads are also dual carriageway but not a Motorway. The phrase means the same thing as a divided highway, also sometimes called a Freeway, or even an Interstate, in the US. The English use Motorway to refer only to a dual carriageway meeting British motorway standards which, BTW, far exceed US standards for Freeways and are much safer as a result.

 

Looks like Jaguar does have a temperature gauge after all, it just stays invisible until the driver needs the information. Then it informs the driver BEFORE the engine overheats. Seems pretty good to me.

 

Still reading my posts?

Still misreading them?

Save yourself the trouble of trying to teach me anything. I'm beyond your help.

I say it doesn't matter that Jaguar does not continuously display a temperature gauge. Some apparently think it does. The facts speak for themselves. I didn't say, and don't say, that those who think a temperature gauge is essential are wrong. I do say they are out of date and probably don't know that real temperature gauges haven't been fitted to road cars for ten to twenty years. Most of the people who think they want or need a temperature gauge seem unaware that they haven't had one anyway.

 

Buy a OBDII gauge if you want to know water temp and a slew of other informaton. I remember a fellow on this forum who was going to change his fuel pump 'cause he thought it was not putting out enough pressure, but he had no gauge to check it by and was just guessing. The OBDII port would have shown him the pressure if he had just connected into it. Scangauge, is one of many makers of OBDII gauges. Connects right to your OBDII port.

 

Of course I'm still reading them in the perhaps fanciful hope that I would learn something from them - after all, you're the one who said you were doing the educating. But, you can rest assured that you are educating a lot of people - unfortunately, it's about your rudeness.

The simple reality is that the PCM and associated components do very specifically measure engine temperature along with (obviously) a whole host of other parameters, which could easily then be displayed through graphical depiction of the the data. Jaguar and some/many other manufacturers agree with you that this information is not important enough - or would probably cause owners to pester service advisers - to display, even optionally.

Those who want to be able to see this information aren't necessarily "out of date" as you put it, any more than a person who loves fine mechanical watches with an exhibition case back is out of date compared to those who wear a digital watch. They're interested in how the machine works and have a genuine curiosity about it. And they're frustrated when a manufacturer seals it all up and doesn't let it be seen. That's why Jaguar chose to have a temperature gauge/display for the F-Type - those buyers wouldn't appreciate it being absent and Jaguar thinks those people want to be more "involved" with the machine.

 

You just can't let anyone have any fun. Car rides with you must be a hoot. But, thanks for the additional unnecessary US bashing - restores my faith in you LOL.

 

Two posts. Wow, makes me feel important.

 

Best solution to the Capt Wikipedia annoyance: add him to your ignore list. Best move I've made since I joined this board.

 

Temp gauge scenario discussed to death and answered I believe.

Windows have not, OP please start a new thread on this.

This topic is closed and pm's sent!