Hi everyone,

I recently got my front brake pads and rotors changed at a local mechanic here for my XF 2013 V6 supercharged. These were Meyle brakes and rotors. Initially there was some groaning noise whenever I brake to a stop (not during, only stop) but that's gone down a lot since I took it on the highway. There is another issue though that is seriously bugging me. There is a slight vibration in the vehicle now, it comes through the accelerator pedal. I spoke to the mechanic and also took him on a drive to maybe show it to him but as is usual with these, I couldn't feel anything then. But it's happening now again. The mechanic took a look at he brakes and rotors again and said he would switch them out as he didn't like the wear pattern. He said he ordered Akebono's which should be in next week. But in the meantime, I just wanted to check if there might be something you guys could point out. I thought it's something I can ignore but I can feel the ride isn't the same anymore, it's a bit rough. The mechanic suggested it might be the tires but if it was I don't understand how this started happening right after I took it to him. And for the life of me I can't find a good mechanic shop here. I took the car to a different mechanic's shop to get this checked but this place was in kind of a ghetto area and I just didn't want to leave my car there. So I just wanted to check if you guys have any idea as to what could be wrong.

Thank you!

 

Pleas describe the vibration a little more. Is it all the time or only when the vehicle is moving? Is it speed sensitive?

Also, please give the year. I assume it is a 5.3.

 

Thank you for replying! The vibration comes and goes, I couldn't get it to come on at a certain speed. Sometimes it kicks in at 50 mph and sometimes it doesn't. But at higher speeds, I can definitely feel it most of the times. Also, the vibration is coming through the brake and accelerator pedals, and I can sometimes feel it coming to the steering wheel. And there is a little vibration when the car is sitting but that was always there. This sensation through the pedals and wheel only started happening after the brake change.

Thank you!

 

After installing the new brake parts, did you, or the technician that installed them, go through the "bed-in" procedure for new brake pads/rotors?


This is done by doing 3-4, brisk 50MPH to 20MPH deceleration cycles, then gently rolling the car to a stop, and putting it into the "park" position of the shift selector, WITHOUT touching the brakes. Then allow the car to thoroughly cool before driving it again.


The "vibration" you're feeling may be some residual brake material that was unevenly deposited of the new rotors, and it causes a trace of momentary drag, as the brake rotor rotates.

 

That's a pretty good Internet myth started by one company that posted their theory.

Do we really think that some little deposit on a brake rotor that comes from the very pads that wear down as you drive can survive regular braking for any significant period of time? If so, they would just coat the brake rotors with these deposits and you would never need to change brake pads or rotors again.

 

Call me crazy but if you are feeling a vibration thru the gas pedal or other areas of the car I would start with the wheels to ensure they are balanced properly. Quite possible something came loose like a wheel weight when they removed the wheels to put the pads and rotors on. I would also make sure the wheels are torqued properly and not over torqued. If the car only vibrates when u are hitting the brakes then the rotors are warped even if they are new. Manufactured parts aren't always perfect. good luck.

 

I don't think the technician did that. And I didn't do it either. But there was an initial groan on the brakes that isn't there anymore after I took it on the highway. Also, how do I put it in the park position without touching the brakes. Wouldn't that mean going from the drive mode to the park mode directly?

I can feel the vibration is more prominent at idle as well. There was a slight vibration when I used to start the car and let it idle to allow the rpm to settle but it was never an issue per se. Now it's multiplied in intensity and feels like it's effecting very part of the car. I used to love driving this car, now I'm dreading walking to it. I will wait till he mechanic changes the brakes out next week and see if it gets any better. The problem is I don't even know what or where to look for.

 

I realize that I have a slight advantage in being able to do that, as my driveway has a slight uphill incline to it. However, knowing where you ultimately are going to park the car after driving it, and with a little advance planning, you slowly coast up to that place, with the car in neutral, and as soon as the car stops rolling, you slip it into the "park" position.


Having said that, you have now mentioned a second situation, where the car is vibrating when the engine is running, but the car is stationary. That's an entirely different problem, I would say.

 

Some general knowledge to get you started.
If it's the same vibration at idle as it is at speed, than it's engine related.
If you feel vibration in the seat and not the steering wheel its rear wheels or rotors, if you feel the vibration in the steering wheel its front wheels, or rotors.
if the vibration doesn't change when you apply the brakes, it wheels, if the vibration comes or goes when you apply the brakes, its brakes.

Hope this helps

 

Thank you for the reply! I wanted to ask him this but before I could he asked me if the wheels were balanced recently. So I figured he must have checked for the weights when he did the brake job. I did get the wheels balanced though last month at the jaguar dealer when I took the car in for the 5th year maintenance schedule. I didn't ask him about the torque though. Seems like I have to take the car in to a Firestone nearby to get all this checked again.

 

Sorry for not mentioning that before. I just assumed that was the case with Jaguars based on what I read here and some of the reviews online-that there is a very slight vibration on all the cars when it's idling. And that really didn't bother me before as it was too low. Not so much now.

 

Thank you for this info wardo! It definitely helps to know where to start diagnosing such issues. I feel the vibration in both the steering wheels and the seats and the vibration actually goes away when I apply the brakes, atleast I can't feel it when I apply the brakes. And I think I noticed something else too while driving yesterday, when the car comes to a stop, the steering wheel kinda turns to the left on it's own, like something's pulling it. But I'm not entirely sure of this as this may be attributed to the potholes in the road when I came to a stop and the wheel trying to balance itself out. I will have to test this more today.

 

Also, just wanted to check, I read on one of the threads out here that vibration along with supercharger whine can be the result of an alternator as well. Is this true? I can hear the supercharger whine and I did inquire about this with the technician at the Jaguar dealer when I went in for the 5th year maintenance and he said it was normal supercharger whine and that happened all the time.

 

If this is happening, you have a brake problem (not necessarily the cause of vibration though), they are not applying evenly as designed. This problem is one of these, pads not bedded properly, sticky caliber or not installed properly, you need to get that figured. In these cars, you should be able to stand on that brake pedal at speed, let go of the steering wheel and the car track straight.

 

Hmm, I didn't think of checking it that way, seems like a good idea on an empty road. I need to take out my car in an hour, so this would be a good test at this hour. Thanks for pointing that!

 

First of all, ignore the advice of braking hard and then rolling the car to a stop without applying the brake pedal and going straight to P from D - you will ruin your transmission!

The proper way to bed brakes in is take it on a quiet smooth road, get up to 70mph and brake hard but let off at around 20mph then drive the car at speed for a minute again to cool the brakes down and repeat - doing this three times will bed the brakes in.

Secondly, it sounds to me from what you're describing there are three different issues:
- First one: vibration
- Second one: pulls to the left when braking
- Third one: vibrates while idling

Let's address the first one:
Vibration can be caused by buckled rims (I have personal experience) even if you balance them, a buckled rim will still cause vibration. If one of the front wheels buckled, you will feel it through the steering wheel and accelerator as I did. If you swap the front wheels to the back, the vibration will then transfer through the seats and your steering will stop vibrating - you can try that or have the tire shop turn each wheel on a balancing machine and check for buckled/warped rims. It's possible your mechanic test drove your car and hit something and buckled one of your wheels or more.

The second issue: pulls to the left when braking
Well this definitely sounds like the brake job wasn't done properly - the outer pads might look fine, but one needs to check the pads behind the brake rotor. Is it seated properly? And as mentioned, the caliper might have been damaged while the job was done as they have to compress the pistons to get the new pads in. Also, check the upper wishbone links on your suspension if the bushes are worn on the left wheel's suspension. It's an aluminum wishbone looking brace and this controls lateral movement on the struts - if the bushings are worn, you will notice the oil has leaked out of them.

Third one: Vibration while idling
This is normal. My XF has always vibrated slightly based on engine idle, usually when its warmed up, but if you take the RPM while in Park to around 2000 to 3000 rpm, you will notice a pronounced vibration coming through while the car is stationery - totally normal. The engine mountings are doing their job. I wouldn't confuse this stationery vibration with a moving vibration.

Here's another tip:
If you google how to measure the frequency of your specific wheels & prop-shaft, you could isolate whether it's either or none of them. The propshaft on our XFs typically turns at 57-60 times per second - that means if it is vibrating, the frequency would be 60Hz. The wheels on our cars typically turn at 18 times per second, which means if you have a wheel vibration, it will come up at 18-20Hz (hertz).

Here is the calculation for interests sake for wheels:
Rotational speed of tire per second = Distance car travels in 1 sec (km's) / by circumference (meters) of the tire.
So, if the car vibrates at 140km/h (80mph), the calc would be (140 x 1000) / 2.1 m = 18.52. The rotational speed of the tire is 18.52 thus 18 hertz.

Here is the calc for the propshaft:
Rotational speed of prop shaft p/second = (rotational speed of tire per second) x (diff gear ratio)

You can download a vibration app from the Play store or Apple Store and measure what frequency your vibration comes in at and at what speed.

This measurement stuff is just for info and to help others out there, but for you, I'd keep it simple as it clearly seems to be an issue relating to your wheels. More often that not, it's buckled wheels - you don't know what your mechanic did with your car while he had it. If he hit a bad pothole, he will NEVER admit it.

If it is indeed buckled wheels or one wheel, claim from your insurance and you will love your XF again.

I just recently replaced all 4 wheels on my car due to a vibration from 50mph all the way to 100 mph and after replacing tires, I replaced the wheels - the tires were replaced for nothing because two of my wheels were buckled, one on the front and one at the rear. The vibration came through my steering wheel and my seat and the dealer was going to take the prop off my car when I decided to take it back to the tire shop and checked them myself - after putting the new set of wheels on, my car was so smooth again.

Hope the info helps!

 

Thank you for the detailed info Hiltoncam! I think the second problem was just me coming to a stop right on a bumpy road and the steering wheel trying to adjust itself to the straight position. I tried to replicate it like wardo5757 suggested and wasn't able to. For the third problem, I did think it was an XF thing as the car always did that from the moment I got it and the threads and reviews mentioned the same thing. I'm just paranoid now because it seems to be doing it more. Or atleast I think it is, I tend to in these matters.

For the first problem, I am taking my car into Firestone tomorrow to see if the wheels are still balanced or if one of the weights fell off when the brake job was being done like it was suggested. I will also check with them and see if they can tell me if the wheels are buckled. The vibration app seems useful, I will definitely test it out. Would have to take my cousin with me though who has an android, I have a windows phone and I couldn't find it the store. If it's buckled wheels, could you suggest a good place to buy wheels at a reasonable price? I'm not sure if I would want my insurance to pay for it as it would jack up my insurance rate. It would be better if I just buy it myself. Thanks a lot for the information you provided!

 

I want to suggest something, I could be way off base, maybe the more experienced can chime in.
I've notice a few times after bedding brake pads that I need to get my tires balanced again, as if the tires have spun on the rims from all the hard braking. Does this seem possible?

 

That would be a sign of something very wrong, and I highly doubt it. But you can test your theory easily enough by marking the tires/rims and they going out for some hard braking.

To the OP, don't rule out worn suspension components. If anything bushings or ball joints are worn out, they could cause the vibration, and also the pulling under braking.

 

Hmm...would this show signs of wear all of a sudden? I'm not questioning you, just curious so I can explore this more too. This only started happening after the brake change and that too the very next day. Also, the car has around 37000 miles on it, so I don't know if the suspension and other components wear out about this time.

Would you all know of a reputable car repair shop chains in the states if you are here? For some reason, I don't trust the Firestones, the NTBs etc but since I couldn't find anything else that is good online, I have to take it to these.