This is actually getting to be a bit comical. You must be a politician, or a professional dancer

I wasn't asking how often manufacturers win court cases regarding denied warranty.

I'll ask the questions one more time, reposted here so you don't even have to scroll back !

In your actual experience, if you have any, what's the common or typical resolution at a Canadian Jaguar dealership when there is an engine failure coupled together with DIY servicing. I am not asking what Jaguar of Canada might do under the letter of the law but, instead, what they actually do in real world, boots-on-the-ground practice.

Is it common in Canada to deny warranty coverage based on DIY serving? Have you had this happen? Can you or anyone here comment based on actual experience in such a scenario?

Cheers
DD

 

I have not had warranty denied but I always have my new car serviced by the dealer during the warranty. I have experienced a number of goodwill non warranty repairs which I attribute to this practice. I certainly have never been in the position of having to prove the required servicing has been done correctly which in itself is worth having the dealer perform all required servicing (which for Jaguar consists of annual oil changes and a number of inspections).

I know of no case where a DIY issue has arisen and the manufacturer has been found liable when it denied warranty coverage for that reason.

I'm not sure how one would gather useful statistics on how often a manufacturer elects not to void the warranty when faced with a claim arising from incorrect DIY servicing.

Perhaps a more useful question might be to ask if anyone has personal experience in Canada of a manufacturer denying warranty coverage when faced with a claim arising where DIY servicing has been done correctly. Now that we all know that Jaguar (and other manufacturers as it turns out) have altered their warranty terms to expressly permit correct DIY servicing I'm not sure that aspect is relevant to the discussion. The original issue was a claim that manufacturers in Canada were required by law to effect this change which I am pretty sure is incorrect. The DIY owner still has to be able to prove that all required servicing has been correctly performed. I know of no method by which a DIY owner could reliably do that, even in the U.S. where this warranty term is apparently mandated by legislation.

The real issue is whether it is worth the risk of denial of warranty coverage for a failed engine, for example and there are many other possibilities, because the owner elected to DIY his or her own oil changes.

You save perhaps $50 per oil change, so two x $50 during a four year warranty (the third oil change occurs on the termination of the four year warranty so cannot be relevant to a subsequent failure which would not be covered except by goodwill), against the possible cost of an engine failure, let us estimate that at $15,000.00 for the sake of argument.

To save that $100 would take you approximately 3-4 hours of work including running around locating the correct spec oil and a filter you can guarantee meets OEM spec.

And that's just for oil changes....

 

I think you're assuming that the factory will demand that the owner prove that he did the work correctly. I doubt it. Much more likely is that, absent any glaringly obvious reason to say 'no', they'll say 'yes'.

Let me describe from actual real world experience how the scenario would likely be resolved in the USA and, I imagine, Canada as well.

Dealer: We have an internal engine failure with DIY servicing
Factory rep: Is there oil in the engine?
Dealer: Yes
Factory rep: New oil filter, too? And receipts?
Dealer: Yes and Yes
Factory rep: Record of servicing?
Dealer: The owner recorded everything on the back of the owners manual
Factory rep: Do you see anything outwardly wrong with the servicing ?
Dealer: No, not at all
Factory rep: Any abuse or neglect?
Dealer: Nope
Factory rep: I see no reason to deny the claim. Why did you even call me? Make copies of all his records, attach them to your warranty repair order, and make the repairs under warranty.
Dealer: OK, great
Factory rep: Next time, don't bother me unless you're 98% sure the claim should be denied and are looking for approval on the last 2%


Again I'll mention that my experience doesn't include Jaguar dealers but I can assure you that the above conversation could've been with any number of other manufacturers doing business in the USA.

I can give a few real world examples of when warranty coverage on an engine was denied:

- No oil in engine, no service records of any kind, oil filter plugged solid, engine seized due to lack of lubrication

- Water ingested, cylinders actually have water in them, visible evidence that owner tried to cross a river or similar

- Car used in competitive event. Time slips from the track are still on dashboard, owner describes abuse in on-line discussion forum





Yes, but to make the decision "is it worth the risk?" you'd naturally need to determine the degree of risk. In this case, how likely is it that the engine will fail and, then, how likely is it that the warranty will be denied.

From my experience we're looking at a very low risk situation and, so far, I've seen nothing discussed in this thread to make me think otherwise.

Cheers
DD

 

Well, no it's not 'we' that 'now know'. The warranties were not altered- they always read that way. DIY or non-dealership work was never prohibited.

My contact referenced earlier essentially said the same thing as being a typical exchange between dealer and warranty rep. He had time to dig in their system looking for differences between Canadian practice and US practice and found none.

He also shared some fairly amusing stores about people who tried to pull a fast one on a dealer and got caught. These same people are the ones that most frequently howl in protest using either the internet or the local media and end up being their own worst enemies.

 

I can assure you the warranties didn't always read that way.

 

agreed making friends with a service adviser helps...