Weekend XF-R test drive (long winded question)
#1
10-06-2012, 05:21 PM
Weekend XF-R test drive (long winded question)
So, I'm searching for my first Jag. I went to my local dealer today and test drove the new 2012 XF (which I can get for $51k). I liked it but was not crazy about it (after driving the Audi S6, S8 and RS5 earlier in the week I was really missing the torque and pull off the line). They did not have a S/C in stock which was sort of a bummer. They offered to give me the car for the weekend. Sounded good, but I told them I'd pick it up later as I had a few errands to run.
One of my errands was running over to a high end exotic used car dealer where I test drove an '07 E63 (asking about $37k...44k miles) and a '10 XF-R (they did not have the regular S/C and are asking $57k though I'm told that is negotiable...22k miles). I immediately fell in love with the XF-R. I mean, what a car! That is the most car I've ever sat in and I would need to be really careful if I purchased something like this.
They offered me the car for the weekend and it is now parked in my driveway. My wife is so excited she can hardly stand it lol. So, let's say I can pick up a used '10 or '11 for the mid to low $50k's (I've already found a couple others on the web). Is it worth the $5k or so to get the XFR over the S/C? (interestingly, I seem to be finding more R's within my 200 miles radius than the S/C)
Also, I'm probably planning on keeping whatever I get for quite a while. If not though, will I get beat up on resale worse either way?
Thanks for bearing with me and this wall of text. I'm just trying to make sure my first Jag purchase is one that I'll enjoy and feel good about.
One of my errands was running over to a high end exotic used car dealer where I test drove an '07 E63 (asking about $37k...44k miles) and a '10 XF-R (they did not have the regular S/C and are asking $57k though I'm told that is negotiable...22k miles). I immediately fell in love with the XF-R. I mean, what a car! That is the most car I've ever sat in and I would need to be really careful if I purchased something like this.
They offered me the car for the weekend and it is now parked in my driveway. My wife is so excited she can hardly stand it lol. So, let's say I can pick up a used '10 or '11 for the mid to low $50k's (I've already found a couple others on the web). Is it worth the $5k or so to get the XFR over the S/C? (interestingly, I seem to be finding more R's within my 200 miles radius than the S/C)
Also, I'm probably planning on keeping whatever I get for quite a while. If not though, will I get beat up on resale worse either way?
Thanks for bearing with me and this wall of text. I'm just trying to make sure my first Jag purchase is one that I'll enjoy and feel good about.
#2
10-06-2012, 07:39 PM
Veteran Member
I have an '11 XF SC, and have not driven an XFR. I like the looks of the XFR which for '11 has the hood scoops that the SC doesn't have ('12's have scoops for both models). The lower front air intakes are larger and do not have the fins.
I actually like the '11 SC wheels better than the R's. The seats are sportier in the XFR and it has 40 more hp. Mechanically, both cars are essentially the same otherwise as I understand it.
You can't go wrong with the XFR. You should try to find a SC and see for yourself. The 470 hp can kick it pretty hard. There was a 2010 XFR at Piehler Jag in Western NY with 4k miles, but I think they sold it. It was listed at around 56k if I recall. They have another one with over 20k on it in the mid to lower 50's.
Some of the other SC and R owners should chime in. If you can afford the R go for it. If you can swing a '12 SC, I would get that over a used XFR. Just me though.
....the depreciation will be more on the XFR, but if you are buying a used one you won't take the worst of it, someone else already did that.
Also, make sure you drive either in dynamic with sport mode and use paddle shifters to wind it out. You probable already have....!
I actually like the '11 SC wheels better than the R's. The seats are sportier in the XFR and it has 40 more hp. Mechanically, both cars are essentially the same otherwise as I understand it.
You can't go wrong with the XFR. You should try to find a SC and see for yourself. The 470 hp can kick it pretty hard. There was a 2010 XFR at Piehler Jag in Western NY with 4k miles, but I think they sold it. It was listed at around 56k if I recall. They have another one with over 20k on it in the mid to lower 50's.
Some of the other SC and R owners should chime in. If you can afford the R go for it. If you can swing a '12 SC, I would get that over a used XFR. Just me though.
....the depreciation will be more on the XFR, but if you are buying a used one you won't take the worst of it, someone else already did that.
Also, make sure you drive either in dynamic with sport mode and use paddle shifters to wind it out. You probable already have....!
Last edited by jaguny; 10-06-2012 at 07:43 PM.
#3
10-06-2012, 08:08 PM
Have owned my XFR for a week now. I did quite a bit of research and road tests of used sports sedans by all the usual players prior to my purchase, including test drives of both the XF base model and SC. As you say, it is an incredible car. You are getting a hell of a car for your money when new, used models even more so. Sounds like you are already in love though and are well aware of that...
The mechanicals on the XFR and the SC are virtually the same; if there is any truth to the advertised horsepower difference you will certainly not feel it on the road. The XFR has upgraded brakes which improve fade resistance, but the SC is certainly up to any real world task barring heavy track use and provides essentially identical stopping distance. Both share the same dynamic suspension (CATS) and stability control system. Exclusive to the XFR are excellent race seats, spoiler (available as an accessory for the SC), 20" rims which are quite nice, and of course a modified front end and hood louvers, all of which are personal taste issues.
In any case both models have an incredible amount of power on tap available for the street. The ZF 6 transmission shared across the XF line is superb and gets justifiably rave reviews.
Personally I think an XFR will hold a $5k premium over a comparable SC for quite some time, so it's likely some money will be there on the back end if you sell in three to five years. Whether it is worth it to you up front is entirely a personal preference.
Difficult to say what will happen to XF values in the long term. It is truly a stunning car and rates well against competitors. However perceptions about Jaguar reliability seem to be holding it back from acceptance in the larger market. They have depreciated significantly on the used market to this point, but that does not mean the sharp decline will continue for 2-3 year old models. After all at this point a base '09 XF is priced very close to an Infiniti G37 (if not slightly under if you consider equipment), and it completely outclasses both that car and the M37. Also the supply on '09-'10 XFs seems to be swollen by off lease models, which won't continue long term for those model years ('11s starting to show up and of course off lease '12s will hit the streets in a year or so in significant numbers).
FWIW I think you can find a low mileage '10 XFR in excellent condition with CPO warranty for low $50k or high $40k if you look around a bit... CPO '10 SC for $40k on the nose or a shade under... without the CPO warranty figure $2k off, but that $2k is money well spent if for nothing else than it will make your car much more saleable on the back end.
Worst thing about owning a supercharged XF? Everyone you know will want a joy ride, and forget about going anywhere without drawing attention. First place I drove my XFR was literally the premier steak house in the SW Florida... amid a sea of virtually showroom Audis, BMW M5s, AMGs, etc. the valet wanted to chat about my used XFR to the annoyance of the other car owners...
Cheers,
- Will
The mechanicals on the XFR and the SC are virtually the same; if there is any truth to the advertised horsepower difference you will certainly not feel it on the road. The XFR has upgraded brakes which improve fade resistance, but the SC is certainly up to any real world task barring heavy track use and provides essentially identical stopping distance. Both share the same dynamic suspension (CATS) and stability control system. Exclusive to the XFR are excellent race seats, spoiler (available as an accessory for the SC), 20" rims which are quite nice, and of course a modified front end and hood louvers, all of which are personal taste issues.
In any case both models have an incredible amount of power on tap available for the street. The ZF 6 transmission shared across the XF line is superb and gets justifiably rave reviews.
Personally I think an XFR will hold a $5k premium over a comparable SC for quite some time, so it's likely some money will be there on the back end if you sell in three to five years. Whether it is worth it to you up front is entirely a personal preference.
Difficult to say what will happen to XF values in the long term. It is truly a stunning car and rates well against competitors. However perceptions about Jaguar reliability seem to be holding it back from acceptance in the larger market. They have depreciated significantly on the used market to this point, but that does not mean the sharp decline will continue for 2-3 year old models. After all at this point a base '09 XF is priced very close to an Infiniti G37 (if not slightly under if you consider equipment), and it completely outclasses both that car and the M37. Also the supply on '09-'10 XFs seems to be swollen by off lease models, which won't continue long term for those model years ('11s starting to show up and of course off lease '12s will hit the streets in a year or so in significant numbers).
FWIW I think you can find a low mileage '10 XFR in excellent condition with CPO warranty for low $50k or high $40k if you look around a bit... CPO '10 SC for $40k on the nose or a shade under... without the CPO warranty figure $2k off, but that $2k is money well spent if for nothing else than it will make your car much more saleable on the back end.
Worst thing about owning a supercharged XF? Everyone you know will want a joy ride, and forget about going anywhere without drawing attention. First place I drove my XFR was literally the premier steak house in the SW Florida... amid a sea of virtually showroom Audis, BMW M5s, AMGs, etc. the valet wanted to chat about my used XFR to the annoyance of the other car owners...
Cheers,
- Will
Last edited by macboots; 10-06-2012 at 10:06 PM.
#4
10-06-2012, 09:41 PM
'11 with 7k miles
Awesome responses...thanks!
As I've been researching more, I have found a 2011 XFR with 7k miles put into service in the spring of 2011 (warranty expires spring of '16 if I've researched right). It is black on black with every option. I can get it for about $56k. Original MSRP was a little over $80k. I believe the deposit will go on tomorrow.
Compared to the loaner sitting in my driveway, this car is one year newer, has 2 years more warranty, 15k less miles for what will amount to probably a few thousand if I negotiate well with the dealer.
I would love to hear if that sounds like a reasonable line of thought and a good deal.
As I've been researching more, I have found a 2011 XFR with 7k miles put into service in the spring of 2011 (warranty expires spring of '16 if I've researched right). It is black on black with every option. I can get it for about $56k. Original MSRP was a little over $80k. I believe the deposit will go on tomorrow.
Compared to the loaner sitting in my driveway, this car is one year newer, has 2 years more warranty, 15k less miles for what will amount to probably a few thousand if I negotiate well with the dealer.
I would love to hear if that sounds like a reasonable line of thought and a good deal.
#5
10-06-2012, 10:19 PM
#6
10-06-2012, 10:33 PM
There are no two identical used cars, so to some degree you need to look at every deal with a fresh set of eyes.
You are probably looking at the one by private seller listed on E-Bay classifieds and Autotrader? We were having a discussion about that car on another thread.
Cars for Sale: 2011 Jaguar XF R in Charlotte, NC 28227: Sedan Details - 330265228 - AutoTrader.com
There are very few used 2011 XFRs for sale period right now; with such limited supply it's difficult to say what a decent deal would be. Knowing you can get a comparable 2010 with the 100,000 mile CPO warranty for right about $50K, it's purely a personal question that you have to answer as to what the value of a 2011 is to you. There is very little difference between those model years; some upgrades to the infotainment system, glove box opener was made a mechanical button, and that's about it.
Warranty on that car should be 5 year, 50,000 mile with free maintenance unless something is amiss.
If indeed you are looking at that vehicle, only odd thing is that car's Autocheck has no initial registration date. So it has almost 7000 miles but was apparently never registered on the road... Could be a regional test vehicle for the dealer network, but then why is it up as a private sale? Maybe the Autocheck just isn't catching the registration, I don't know. But I would want to inquire about it a bit and also check the CarFax. Probably not a no-go if everything else comes out clean, but something I would want to iron out.
Regarding it having 'all the options,' be aware there are very few options available for the XFR as they came with just about everything. The only ones available were adaptive cruise control for roughly $2200, lighted door sills for about $600 (marketed as an accessory and can be installed later by you... they are sweet), and black suede headliner; everything else came standard with the XFR. Not sure if heated windshield was available for 2011 (was not for 2010). 2012 XFRs can also get a Black Pack and an ultra-premium 1200 watt stereo system which is just insane... the 400 watt one is absolutely excellent.
Hope that helps a little.
Cheers,
- Will
You are probably looking at the one by private seller listed on E-Bay classifieds and Autotrader? We were having a discussion about that car on another thread.
Cars for Sale: 2011 Jaguar XF R in Charlotte, NC 28227: Sedan Details - 330265228 - AutoTrader.com
There are very few used 2011 XFRs for sale period right now; with such limited supply it's difficult to say what a decent deal would be. Knowing you can get a comparable 2010 with the 100,000 mile CPO warranty for right about $50K, it's purely a personal question that you have to answer as to what the value of a 2011 is to you. There is very little difference between those model years; some upgrades to the infotainment system, glove box opener was made a mechanical button, and that's about it.
Warranty on that car should be 5 year, 50,000 mile with free maintenance unless something is amiss.
If indeed you are looking at that vehicle, only odd thing is that car's Autocheck has no initial registration date. So it has almost 7000 miles but was apparently never registered on the road... Could be a regional test vehicle for the dealer network, but then why is it up as a private sale? Maybe the Autocheck just isn't catching the registration, I don't know. But I would want to inquire about it a bit and also check the CarFax. Probably not a no-go if everything else comes out clean, but something I would want to iron out.
Regarding it having 'all the options,' be aware there are very few options available for the XFR as they came with just about everything. The only ones available were adaptive cruise control for roughly $2200, lighted door sills for about $600 (marketed as an accessory and can be installed later by you... they are sweet), and black suede headliner; everything else came standard with the XFR. Not sure if heated windshield was available for 2011 (was not for 2010). 2012 XFRs can also get a Black Pack and an ultra-premium 1200 watt stereo system which is just insane... the 400 watt one is absolutely excellent.
Hope that helps a little.
Cheers,
- Will
Last edited by macboots; 10-06-2012 at 11:03 PM.
#7
10-07-2012, 05:25 AM
Trending Topics
#8
10-07-2012, 07:49 AM
Veteran Member
It may be that the car was purchased by the dealership as Jag was offering dealers monetary incentives to get the car of the books. It would not necessarily have been registered in that case. Mine had been put into service 10 months prior to my buying date, but only had 120 miles. Worht looking into for a reasonable explanation. Sounds like a nice car. You are getting some good input from others.
#9
10-07-2012, 07:59 AM
I just dropped the $50 for the carfax and the last thing it shows is for sale at a dealer.
CARFAX Vehicle History Report on SAJWA0JC8BMS20645
not sure if that link will work or not, but that is the carfax. I don't know much about these things but I don't personally see anything concerning, but, again, I may be missing something.
Actually just talked with my father-in-law...might make the 4hour road trip today to go get this if I everything checks out and I can come to an agreement with the current owner.
Darin
CARFAX Vehicle History Report on SAJWA0JC8BMS20645
not sure if that link will work or not, but that is the carfax. I don't know much about these things but I don't personally see anything concerning, but, again, I may be missing something.
Actually just talked with my father-in-law...might make the 4hour road trip today to go get this if I everything checks out and I can come to an agreement with the current owner.
Darin
#11
10-07-2012, 08:40 AM
Veteran Member
Seems odd that there is no registration of the vehicle although it is in the hands of a private seller. Don't have anything to offer other than ask the seller what the history of the car is and why they are selling. Do they have any service records? Where has the car been serviced since they purchased it? When and where was the car purchased and with how many miles. What state was the car registered in when purchased, etc. Drive the hell out of it on a test drive.
Visually stunning car. Love the blacked out grilles. Good luck.
Visually stunning car. Love the blacked out grilles. Good luck.
#12
10-07-2012, 09:33 AM
The discussion is buried in this thread.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...od-deal-81884/
Discussion started because there was a scammer on E-Bay who posted that car for sale at $39,000. Unfortunately for that guy the actual seller had it listed in the classified section... E-Bay has since removed the scam auction.
I wasn't trying to put you off the sale, just mentioning something to look into and discuss with the seller. There are several reasons why it would not be registered to date yet, but most of those would not involve a private seller. I agree with Jaguny on the looks. The interior has the Jet Suede headliner option. My car has that same black on black interior. If I had my pick, probably would have chosen an ivory or tan interior. But now I own it, it has grown on me and I really like the way it looks and would have regretted another choice.
On the test drive look for any squeaks, rattles, etc. which seem to be the major complaint. Some cars have 'em, most cars don't, but they can be persistent. There is a light rattling sound from the engine bay coming in at 2700 RPM and disappearing above 3500 RPM or so; according to my dealer this is normal chattering of the secondary air intake as it moves from shut to full open.
Good luck! Please keep us updated on the purchase! If you see any other vehicles you're considering, PM me the VIN and I can run the Autocheck for you.
Cheers,
- Will
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...od-deal-81884/
Discussion started because there was a scammer on E-Bay who posted that car for sale at $39,000. Unfortunately for that guy the actual seller had it listed in the classified section... E-Bay has since removed the scam auction.
I wasn't trying to put you off the sale, just mentioning something to look into and discuss with the seller. There are several reasons why it would not be registered to date yet, but most of those would not involve a private seller. I agree with Jaguny on the looks. The interior has the Jet Suede headliner option. My car has that same black on black interior. If I had my pick, probably would have chosen an ivory or tan interior. But now I own it, it has grown on me and I really like the way it looks and would have regretted another choice.
On the test drive look for any squeaks, rattles, etc. which seem to be the major complaint. Some cars have 'em, most cars don't, but they can be persistent. There is a light rattling sound from the engine bay coming in at 2700 RPM and disappearing above 3500 RPM or so; according to my dealer this is normal chattering of the secondary air intake as it moves from shut to full open.
Good luck! Please keep us updated on the purchase! If you see any other vehicles you're considering, PM me the VIN and I can run the Autocheck for you.
Cheers,
- Will
Last edited by macboots; 10-07-2012 at 09:50 AM.
#13
10-07-2012, 10:51 AM
Veteran Member
Keep doing your home work, make sure you knowwhat your getting. look closely at every detail. If something is out of place like above mentioned , then move on to another.
BTW, I see some XFR's have the ACC option like mine, how do you figure that into the asking price when shopping for an XFR or XF ?
BTW, I see some XFR's have the ACC option like mine, how do you figure that into the asking price when shopping for an XFR or XF ?
#14
10-07-2012, 03:56 PM
Is it me, or does the listing for this car state that it has the adaptive cruise control but the picture of the steering wheel clearly shows that it doesn't. Are the pictures of this car actually the one that is for sale? Also, unless I'm mistaken, this is the same car listed on the local Charlotte NC Craigslist site:
2011 JAGUAR XFR 510 HP 6500 MILES
I live in the area and I'm constantly looking for XFR deals (already own one but want another, don't ask!). Keep us up to date on what you find out about this vehicle.
2011 JAGUAR XFR 510 HP 6500 MILES
I live in the area and I'm constantly looking for XFR deals (already own one but want another, don't ask!). Keep us up to date on what you find out about this vehicle.
#16
10-07-2012, 06:28 PM
Good catch SugarChev... both ads list adaptive cruise control but the car in the picture definitely does not... It's definitely the same car. Cragislist ad clearly shows a license plate so the car in the photo at least is registered...
Cheers,
- Will
Last edited by macboots; 10-07-2012 at 06:38 PM.
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dsmith (10-07-2012)
#17
10-07-2012, 09:54 PM
Update!
Earlier this afternoon I purchased this vehicle. Hopefully a little ignorance on my part doesn't bite me in the behind later. So, here is the deal:
This car was a demo car until this past may when it was sold to the guy I bought it from. At the time it had about 2400 miles. The reason for selling the vehicle is to purchase a boat and tow vehicle.
I met this gentleman and his wife in Asheville, NC which is half-way between Knoxville (where I am) and Charlotte. The car is in immaculate shape. I test drove it and everything seemed great.
I gave him $1000 in cash, we both signed a purchased agreement, and I took possession of the vehicle. The plan is to have my bank pay his lender directly and have his lender send me (or my bank) the title.
I drove the car 2.5 hours home and I did not see, hear, feel anything out of the ordinary. In fact, it seemed to drive better than my weekend loaner as far as highway driving is concerned.
One of my first calls tomorrow will be to my local Jag dealer (Harper) and get this in for a scheduled service as soon as it is due. Hopefully I did not screw up anything in this deal. It was just a much better deal than what I had for my loaner. And, yes, IMHO this car is better looking in black and with the small spoiler compared to my loaner (gray) which I already thought looked great.
As far as the ACC...I think the seller was confused by the standard equipment statement "Adaptive Dynamics & DSC". Under optional equipment the only things listed are the dove headliner and heated front windshield. (I have the original window sticker on my desk right now). The funny thing was that on my way home, I tried out what I was told ACC but had to hit my brakes a couple of times with me wondering if I would have hit the car in front of me before the ACC kicked in.
Let me know if there is anything specific I need to ask my service place.
I'll try to update with some photos soon.
Thanks for all of your comments and help. This is a fairly significant purchase (oh, yeah, I ended up paying $56,200) and I pulled the trigger relatively quickly (which is simply part of my personality...this has worked great for me in the past and has bit me a couple of times too)
Darin
This car was a demo car until this past may when it was sold to the guy I bought it from. At the time it had about 2400 miles. The reason for selling the vehicle is to purchase a boat and tow vehicle.
I met this gentleman and his wife in Asheville, NC which is half-way between Knoxville (where I am) and Charlotte. The car is in immaculate shape. I test drove it and everything seemed great.
I gave him $1000 in cash, we both signed a purchased agreement, and I took possession of the vehicle. The plan is to have my bank pay his lender directly and have his lender send me (or my bank) the title.
I drove the car 2.5 hours home and I did not see, hear, feel anything out of the ordinary. In fact, it seemed to drive better than my weekend loaner as far as highway driving is concerned.
One of my first calls tomorrow will be to my local Jag dealer (Harper) and get this in for a scheduled service as soon as it is due. Hopefully I did not screw up anything in this deal. It was just a much better deal than what I had for my loaner. And, yes, IMHO this car is better looking in black and with the small spoiler compared to my loaner (gray) which I already thought looked great.
As far as the ACC...I think the seller was confused by the standard equipment statement "Adaptive Dynamics & DSC". Under optional equipment the only things listed are the dove headliner and heated front windshield. (I have the original window sticker on my desk right now). The funny thing was that on my way home, I tried out what I was told ACC but had to hit my brakes a couple of times with me wondering if I would have hit the car in front of me before the ACC kicked in.
Let me know if there is anything specific I need to ask my service place.
I'll try to update with some photos soon.
Thanks for all of your comments and help. This is a fairly significant purchase (oh, yeah, I ended up paying $56,200) and I pulled the trigger relatively quickly (which is simply part of my personality...this has worked great for me in the past and has bit me a couple of times too)
Darin
Last edited by dsmith; 10-07-2012 at 10:53 PM. Reason: Try to add new signature
#20
10-08-2012, 08:06 AM
Congratulations! Don't 'woulda, coulda, shoulda,' that car will keep a grin plastered on your face and I'm sure you'll have no regrets. Drive the hell out of it...
If you haven't done so already, introduce yourself in the new member part of the forum. That is where the admins troll and they will grant you full privileges such as PM ability and whatnot.
The dealership should do a multipoint inspection and give you the results. It's up to you but might be worth getting an oil change if the previous owner did not... oil can break down over time as well as mileage, and the car has been in service for over a year now.
The car in the photo does not have ACC. ACC uses a small rectangular radar with a black plastic cover in the lower grill, so a portion of the grill is 'cutout.' Here's a photo of mine. Aesthetically the car looks better without it.
Cheers,
- Will
If you haven't done so already, introduce yourself in the new member part of the forum. That is where the admins troll and they will grant you full privileges such as PM ability and whatnot.
The dealership should do a multipoint inspection and give you the results. It's up to you but might be worth getting an oil change if the previous owner did not... oil can break down over time as well as mileage, and the car has been in service for over a year now.
The car in the photo does not have ACC. ACC uses a small rectangular radar with a black plastic cover in the lower grill, so a portion of the grill is 'cutout.' Here's a photo of mine. Aesthetically the car looks better without it.
Cheers,
- Will
Last edited by macboots; 10-08-2012 at 08:18 AM.
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dsmith (10-08-2012)