So, our XF (purchased last April) has been a nightmare, culminating January 1st in a car that wouldn't start at all, and a dealer telling us that the battery was dead, but was fine itself…something drained it, but they didn't know what. We reluctantly accepted the vehicle back, asking them why we should trust that by doing nothing they had "fixed" our car, and expressing our concern that it would happen again.

Well, today, after cleaning ice off the car, we got in and you've got it our piece of sh*t XF (we think the XF is an awesome car…just not the one they sold us…) is, again, completely dead. Missed meetings. Hanging around the house waiting for tow service. Steaming hot furious.

Now if this were the only problem we'd had, we might be more forgiving, but here's the list sent (just yesterday, in fact) to the manufacturer, the person we've been working with in their executive relations group, the North American rep for Tata Sons (who's awesome and has passed our concerns along to the Managing Director at Tata Motors HQ in India), etc.:

1. Inoperable audible turn signal indicator
2. Rattle inside cabin – perhaps related to sunroof
3. Outside rattle toward rear of undercarriage
4. Excessive satellite radio updates
5. Inconsistent operation of Bluetooth handsfree connectivity function
6. Vehicle pulls to right when braking
7. Vehicle drifts right
8. Seat Belt D-Loop recall
9. Instrumentation pedestrian impact system issues
10. Vehicle stalls intermittently upon start
11. Vehicle failed to start entirely, towed to dealer — no innate problem identified with battery;
no underlying cause of battery drain identified
12. Wiper switch / incorrect fuse recall
13. Periodic unusual fuel odor outside and periodically inside cabin
14. Knocking noise from front suspension area
15. Significant brake noise – heightened in wet conditions and on unlevel ground
16. Engine compartment rattle – notable outside of vehicle upon initial start when idling
17. CATS system faults
18. Electronic systems have rebooted on at least three occasions while vehicle was being operated on the highway at speed — a significant safety risk given the range of systems controlled by these networks
19. Assorted electronic systems issues — delayed welcome screen; delayed initiation of backup camera upon putting vehicle in reverse; faulty detection of Smartkey in cabin when it isn’t and resultant failure of locking/arming; periodic failure of parking aid systems
20. Random faults – when vehicle was at dealer in early January, thirty-five (35) faults were identified, none of which was adequately explained away as spurious nor specifically diagnosed and acted upon; these included faults from many safety systems

Now, mind you, some of these problems have been "fixed," if you call replacing the instrument cluster with another one that has the same physical problem as the first, but "fixing" it by reflashing the software to have a less substantial WAV file for the audible indicator so it won't break the new one actually repairing it…

But most of them have not.

Some haven't even been diagnosed as to cause.

And heck, we learned last week about faults and repairs made to the vehicle BEFORE we bought it, but not previously disclosed to us…

So now, we've had it.

After buying 4 Jags in 50 months from the same dealer, they treat us like crap.

This is war.

 

But other than that how did you like the play Mrs. Lincoln? [sm=pcwhack.gif] LOL.


I dont know if this is available in all states but in Florida we have the Lemon Law in which you can return a car for full credit if they cant fix it you might want to check into this I think your car is pretty close to qualifying for this.
[sm=signs003.gif]

 

I agree. Investigate the lemon law requirements in your state.

Cheers
DD

 

Hi Roger,

I'm assuming you bought your car from either Rosenthal Jaguar or Chantilly Jaguar. If so, they shouldbe in compliance with the Virginia Motor Vehicle Warranty Enforcement Act. I found this site.

http://www.carlaws.com/

I would also consult with a lawyer since it seems to me whoever you bought the car from should take it back and return in full your payment.

Good luck,

Mike

 

I looked here...
http://www.dmv.virginia.gov/webdoc/c...s/lemonlaw.asp

In a nutshell it looks like 30 days out of service or three repair attempts for the same problem are the main qualifiers but I didn't read the info in detail.

I doubt that you'd need an attorney but it couldn't hurt.

Itsthe manufacturer, not dealer, that it required to repurchase the car, and expect a deduction for miles driven.

Good luck
DD

 

I do not know if any of the problems other than not starting would qualify this car as a "lemon", but that one problem in and of itself could be grounds for asking them to switch your car out for a new one or ask that they return your money and deduct an amount comparable to the miles you have driven.. I am pretty certain, just to save a customer and/or reputation, that either Jaguar or Tata will try to salvage this situation in some way.. And like already recommended, if they are not willing to comply, you can always take the legal route. Just as a threat I would tell them that you have already retained an attorney and that your not willing to accept anything less than a new car and see where that gets you.

Also is the car a lease or is it financed (purchased)?
Has the dealership been notified of each problem on the list? and have they attempted to fix each one?
Which of the numbered problems still exist?

 

If you still like the car try another dealer. Call the 800-452-4827 number and get them to try and find a more cooperative dealer to help you. Overall the XF is a wonderful car and there are not too many cars I have seen that can't be repaired.

 

There comes a point when I don't have to accept the car back, even if it's "fixed" -- and we passed that point (under my state's statutes) some time ago.

I have no confidence in the car. I have no confidence in the dealer. I have no confidence in the brand.

The worst part of the problem is the unconscionable "customer service" provided at all levels up to and including executive. You wouldn't know we'd bought four of their cars in just over four years to see the way they interact with us -- but for that matter, they should treat a first-time buyer better than they've treated us.

The long and the short of it is that I won't be a Jag owner at all within 6 months. The problem child XF will be gone in short order, and the XK will be sold or traded as soon as I figure out what I want to replace it with.

 

Just tell these turkeys:

Tata ! ! !

 

That's too bad. I'm very happy with my XF and haven't had any of those problems. I do worry however about the immense amount of electronics high-end cars rely on nowadays. Being in the computer industry I know that something very small can go wrong and result in secondary effects on the rest of the system. The problem with cars is that the guys on the front lines who provide service are not software or electronics experts.

 

A couple of years ago I read an article saying one reason that the Japanese companies seem to be higher quality cars than the European cars is that they do a much better job of systems integration. They are used to dealing with electronic and computer systems whereas the European companies as a rule are not. I've had a minor issue with my S-Type that almost seems like either a hung process or one that didn't start. I was able to work around it, but I wonder what other software related issues I might face.

 

Not the case. Europe and the US are way ahead of the Asian countries when it comes to software. the components that make up the electronic hardware are usually made in Asia.

When the computers fail it is almost invariably a manufacturing defect in the hardware.

The software hardly ever fails. It is often upgraded to work better but is rarely the fault in the first place.

Electronic hardware is exceptionally reliable compared to other parts in the car which is the main reason cars have become so reliable.

99 times out of 100 a failure on a modern car is mechanical in some sense.