I'm going to try to cut down a long and hideously expensive story into a readable post, which is quite difficult.

I own a 2011 3.0D S Premium Luxury loaded with just about every toy possible. It is one previous owner, 75k miles and full Jaguar service history. I paid the right money for this car in mid-2016, at which time it had 67k miles.

10 months into my ownership and a cracked inlet manifold, faulty fuel level sensor, a pair of mysteriously buckled alloys, high speed collision with a badger and £4,000 in associated repairs later, the engine self-destructs. The car has been into my local dealership every month since I bought it, to the point we almost didn't even bother with names on the phone.

​​​​​​Apparently my car has suffered a catastrophic crankshaft failure caused by a main bearing sleeve rotating inside the block, causing oil starvation and effectively welding one end of the crank while the other end continues to spin. I'm not an engineer, but I gather this is quite bad.

Reading the generic motoring forums seems to indicate this problem is definitely down to some inventive misuse of the vehicle and could not possibly be a design/manufacturing fault. A Jaguar mechanic and JLR's customer service centre seem to agree this is a known design fault and not the result of any wrongdoing on my part. The problem is that the latter cut me a deal on a new engine costing £10,000. That didn't include a pair of turbos as my (extremely helpful and brilliant throughout) dealership suggested the existing ones almost certainly huffed a good amount of engine debris, and I was wasting my time if I didn't do them too.(I'll point out they knew this would lose them the job, they weren't up-selling).

The car was valued by my local dealership two weeks previous to the failure at £10,000.

​​So, the point, then...

1. Is there any reliable indication of just how many 2.7/3.0s suffered from this problem?
2. I'm told the engine can't just be rebuilt - is this true?
3. Has anyone on this forum suffered the same failure and how did you solve it? There are many sites offering XF engine replacements (which in itself tells a story) but I am not filled with trust. Can anyone recommend someone in the UK?
4. Is there any way of ensuring the same problem won't just happen again? Every source seems to suggest this is a total " sh*t happens" event and any engine could suffer at any time. Even recon engines are £7k fitted by a local independent, which is crazy money on what is essentially a gamble.

How exactly is JLR getting away with selling such a flawed vehicle that wipes itself out to the tune of EXACTLY its market value after 6 years and average milage? This is why Jag residual values are on the floor.

Don't misunderstand, I love the XF. It's the only car I've properly lusted after since 2008 and sparked my love for Jags in general. I just want to get back to driving it for less than the cost of a whole other car.

 

These are UK based Forums

Engines and Transmission

Jaguar XF / XFR (X250) 2007 – 2015

Maybe get the cost of repairing yours and see what other car you could get for around the same.

 

Perhaps they took a page out of the book of profitability from the Germans. Porsche made flawed engines for the 911 and Boxster for 10 years before fixing the problems. They would not sell you parts to fix the engine. And they would only sell you a rebuilt engine if you returned the original engine unopened.

Owners wouldn't talk about it because they knew it would tank the values of their cars.

Porsche became the most profitable car company during this time. And people like you probably think they make the best engineered cars. They don't.

 

Obviously this is a diesel car in the UK.

Although automobile engineers have been very ingenious in trying to make the diesel engine acceptable from an emissions point of view, sometimes the downside of their work appears on some cars.

However it was my understanding that it was the 2.7 litre engines that suffered, and the later 3 litres were better. What can happen with all modern diesels giving a high performance is engine oil getting diluted with the diesel fuel. The fuel gets into the oil via the EGRs (Exhaust Gas Recirculation valves) This manifests itself in the oil level rising over time, rather than dropping. Clearly lubricating oil diluted with diesel fuel has less lubricity.

What I would ask here is what was the use pattern of the car ? Mostly tootling around town or long distance stuff ? It is the tootling that causes the problem.

There must be thousands of Jaguar 3 litre diesel XFs running around without problems, so I think that previous owner's use of the car may have contributed to the demise of the engine. An examination of the engine needs to look at the engine oil and if it has been diluted by diesel fuel. Did the previous owner have the car service at the correct intervals ?

From the description of what happened, I would think the engine block is scrap, so the engine is not worth repairing. Better to find a new engine, and resolve to buy only petrol engined cars in future ! More costs for fuel ,but usually no engine blow-ups

 

That indeed does sound bad.

It could of course be down to a manufacturing defect, but these are uncommon. Almost all spun main/conrod bearings are due to oil starvation. Did you check the oil level after this happened? Not keeping an eye on my 5.0 V8 SC's oil level caused mine to spin 2 connecting rod bearings, even though I filled and checked level at the service interval. Also I have to ask, how bad was the smack with the badger? Could it have caused an oil leak that wasn't immediately discovered during the repair which resulted in the oil getting too low?

Can the 3.0 engine be rebuilt? Absolutely. You can buy brand new crankshafts off eBay, as well as new standard and oversized bearings. Can your engine be rebuilt? Well, that depends on the damage, but despite your rather painful description above, it could well be.

True, but IIRC the 3.0d engine is actually a PSA unit, which are sold in pretty high numbers and as far as I'm aware are pretty reliable, but you might want to check if this is a more common occurrence than people might be aware of on the XF forums (i.e. are 3.0d Peugeots known for spinning bearings?)

As other commenters have pointed out, the same way nearly all car manufacturers are getting away with it. Porsche sold cars with defective intermediate shaft bearings for years, the 2010-2012 5.0 v8 engines in Jaguars and Land Rovers suffer timing chain guide wear that can cause quite serious issues, as can Audis (the S4 V8s are notorious for cam chain rattle, requiring an engine-out $5k repair). Car manufacturers put their engines through rigorous testing but it's nothing compared to years of hard use beta testing by customers who have purchased the product, which they then act on. When you consider how many cars are made each year compared to how many suffer terminal engine failure, especially when that failure can't be attributed to owner not maintaining correct oil level etc, they're not doing too badly.

 

Similar faults on 2.7D and 3.0D keep getting reported. Sounds like sometimes Jaguar pay towards the repair.

 

I think they only assist if the car has always been maintained within the dealer network and at the correct intervals.

So, what is the service history of the car like ?

 

As the fault is something that can occur whether serviced in or out of the dealer network and as EU & UK law specifically allow non-dealer servicing (and forbid any retaliation due to that) I think Jaguar would be in a hole if they refused not to contribute.

Though in some ways it would be good to get a (High) Court decision which would then bind Jaguar into the future.

 

Thanks for the observations and comments, All.

To confirm, the car is full Jaguar service history from new and was, if anything, over maintained looking at the invoices. The crank in my car is now a two-piece item, so this isnt a simple lack of oil, or oil contamination. An independent has told me there's literally nothing one can do to either prevent (or cause) this, a percentage will just fail at some point.

​​​​​I over-service vehicles anyway so monitoring oil level is just something I do as part of the routine on lights, fluids and pressures checks.

Also to confirm, to their credit JLR customer services did offer a contribution when I raised the issue at the advice of my dealer, the price of replacement (with turbos) was still £13k though, on a car they valued at £10k.

​​​​​​The fact I received any contribution at all was due to the service history and condition of the car. I'm grateful that they even considered a discount, but they knew they were still quoting me more than the car was worth as per their own valuation, which meant taking up the offer was not an option anyway. It would have been even more but my local dealer essentially scrubbed the labour charge - they were amazing.

The point is that a 5-minute google shows up a very worrying track record for both 2.7 and 3.0 diesels for this specific failure. Talking to independents suggests there are far more receiving used-replacement engines that never get discussed online. This costs in the region of £6-8k but any used replacement is an unknown quantity.

JagV8 - exactly. But I just want my car fixed for less than it's worth.

 

I'm new to Jags so can't comment on specifics but I am an engine development and test engineer by trade so may be able to help. As someone mentioned above, spun bearings are 99.9% of the time due to oil starvation. The other 0.1% is down to the bearings being poorly sized during the build of the engine but that is normally seen on aftermarket rebuilds not OEM engines.

Of course the engine could be rebuilt. Given enough money you could rebuild anything. The question is can it be rebuilt in a cost effective way. Since spun bearings result in a lot of metal particles being sent around the entire engines oil system, including small channels etc. The engine would need to be completely stripped to component parts, thoroughly washed and rebuilt with mostly new internals. As this is the process that happens when you buy a recon engine it will cost more or less the same money. So rebuilding yours wouldn't be cost effective because you will spend the same money as a recon but be without the engine for a couple of weeks.

So what should you do?? 3 options.
1) Fight Jaguar and get them to pay half the bill for a new engine. Will take weeks, you will still be £5k out of pocket, and there is no guarantee they will do it. Upside is you will have a new and warrented engine fitted by a Jag dealer.
2) Recon engine. You will have to pay it on your own but will get it back sooner. Just as good as a new engine, maybe with a slightly shorter warranty. There are recon engines being advertised on ebay for £5k as a fully fitted price. You will need to judge how good value this is with the warranty offered and the trust you have in the people doing it....
3) Search for a breaker with a low mileage engine and pay an indie to install it. Cheapest option but no warranty....

 

Pace, here is my post on this Forum if you would like to read it.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/d...6/#post1816497
My wife and I are in the process of using the Sale of Goods Act 1979 and the County Courts to take the Jaguar Dealership that we bought the car from to court.
The Sale of Goods Act 1979 or the new Consumer Rights Act 2015 that has strengthened consumer rights for when retailers sell defective goods.
The Sale of Goods Act 1979 states that goods must be as described, of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose. There is also a burden of proof, this can be up to 6 years from purchase when the retailer is entitled to ask the consumer to prove the item was faulty when they bought it.
Since there is a post on this forum in 2012 of a 2007 S Type and on the Honest John site on 2010 of a 2005 S Type both breaking their crankshafts Jaguar Cars and their dealership chain must have had some knowledge that there was a problem with the fitting of the crankshaft main bearings.
There is also a 2014 Land Rover Technical Service Bulletin SSM71816 that tells me that they knew about this problem years before this TSB came out.
If you or anyone would like to join with us with our claim we would be more than happy to make this a multiple claim.

 

Hi Jiffy,

I see you're getting much the same response, in that it's somehow a product of the vehicle's use/style of driving/etc, which is contrary to a quick Google or - as you have said - what even JLR's own technical bulletins are saying. If Ford/Vauxhall or even Renault can make a product that will cope with short journeys all day every day, then so too can a premium brand.

My favourite comment from your thread was that you should have known better than to buy the car...

I'm afraid my situation is different because I bought outside of the dealer network and the place I bought it from has now shut down. A read of the Citizens Advice website confirms you're absolutely on the right track under sale of goods act, as it comes down to "reasonable expectations".

It does not fall into anyone's definition of "reasonable" to be sold a 6 year old product for £15k, maintained exclusively by a main dealer, to fail beyond economic repair after 10 months (in my case). I know I would pursue this if the company I bought from still existed.

Instead, I'm going to cut my losses and offload the car as a non-runner for a pittance, but good luck with your pursuit.

 

Ive been looking on ebay at photos of bearing sets for the v6 diesel engines and one thing stands out immediately. There are no locating lugs on the bearings that would prevent them spinning. The bearing must ether be held by clamping force of the bearing caps or by adhesive.
I have bult several engines in the past and they all had tags or lugs so the bearings only went in one way and couldn't rotate.
Now if they start to rotate they will block the oil feed to that journal and destruction will quickly follow.
As the owner of a 3.0ds with 60k miles im pretty worried now. Especially as i regularly use it to tow a 3000lb trailer.

 

That's exactly the reason for this failure. The lack of tangs are what killed 2.7s, when they created the 3.0 I'm told there were many small improvements, but they still didn't fit any securing tangs.

All I can suggest is taking out a third party warranty, but making sure they will cover this sort of failure - I had just such a warranty but cancelled it after a month as I decided I'd rather pay for any repairs than £700 a year for the warranty. Bear in mind there's no guarantee the warranty would even pay out for any breakage (wear and tear covers pretty much any failure on a used car, and the T&Cs will be watertight against paying out).
​​

 

Thanks Pace for your positive comments, I wish some members on this forum would actually read the posts before commenting on them.
I used to wonder why some members on this and other forums made ridiculous comments on them until my brother in law said to me that since no one has to use their names you never know who these people are, and that some companies actually encourage their employees to join social media sites just to write controversial comments especially ones supporting the companies product.
The posts were on a Harley Davidson forum, l always prefer to use NGK sparkplugs and couldn't understand why members on this forum kept posting that their bikes were running badly when using other makes of sparkplugs. l had used NGK sparkplugs on my Harley's for years without any trouble what so ever. The reasons given on these posts were that by using other makes of sparkplugs rather than Harley Davidson sparkplugs gave incorrect signals to the ECU.
Our Jaguar XJ Sovereign was 3 years old and cost nearly £20,000 when we bought it with 23,000 miles on the clock. Another thing that amuses me is members who seem to assume that low mileage means lots of short journeys.
It is our second Jaguar the first was a brand new S Type XS, that was written off when someone thought it was a good idea to pull out of a junction just as l was passing it.
That's a great shame that your car dealership has shut down, I can understand how upset you must feel and you have my sympathy.
If we do lose our claim l have looked at the option of buying a remanufactured 2.7TDVI engine, these cost anything from £3000 to £4500 fully fitted l don't know if this is something you might consider.

 

I have just had the same Crankshaft failure on my 3.0 S. The car is in immaculate condition and has a full dealership service history. 39,000 motorway miles. I took out an extended warranty which states that it covers the parts which have failed. I have only owned the car 22 months which came from a dealership and the previous owner was the Director of the same dealership. The car suddenly made a knocking noise from the engine which quickly got louder and went bang. No engine managements came on at any point which surprised me? As I see it the car is simply covered by the warranty yet JLR don't see it this way and although the Dealership are of the opinion it is covered they rejected their request to fit a new engine!
I would love to know any constructive thoughts on the subject prior to me contacting a Solicitor. Thanks

 

Contacting a solicitor is probably in order.

 

Engine management lights are heavily oriented toward emission affecting issues. The engine tearing itself apart on the inside is not going to cause an engine light until it's too late.

 

Sorry for your misfortune. Just to clarify, On what grounds are they denying the claim? And who is denying it?
If the contract says it's covered then either they are interpreting the coverage differently (which is easily explored by a call to the warranty company) or they believe you contributed to it and therefore won't pay (eg oil not changed / underfilled, tune etc

What did they say?

 

Jaguar are disputing they have a known fault on the crankshaft with this model even though the Dealership and Warranty company are fully aware of the fault. They don't believe I have contributed to it in any part to the fault. Jaguar don't want to accept responsibility and want the warranty company to pay for the engine so I am now caught in the middle of these companies which don't want to pay for the replacement engine. In my opinion the responsibility sits with Jaguar as it is a known fault as is evident just by searching the web. I now have to file a complaint against Jaguar to see if this makes them take some notice??? In the meantime the car hire company want the replacement car back as no one wants to pay for that either. Until someone accepts responsibility there is no one to cover the cost. All the time me, the customer is having to suffer for their disgraceful service.