Muppet Labs strikes again. 0-100 10.4 seconds @ 18-19 psi
#1
Muppet Labs strikes again. 0-100 10.5 seconds @ 18-19 psi
When I first came to this board I was not able to discern what information was correct and what was incorrect.
I think people should be able to get accurate information about what mods do and do not work on this board. I hope others can benefit from my successes and failures, so I am displaying my info of what worked for me here:
2000 XJR with 56,000 miles. When stock, the boost gauge read 9.5-10 as all 4.0s do. It is the 4.2s with the larger crank pulley that get 11.6. Those who say otherwise are flat out ignorant. After my mods I see 18 psi when it is above 65 degrees, and 19 if below 60
Here is a list of the mods I did to get the performance you see in the video:
ProM 92mm MAF
Custom 4" to true 3.5" less restrictive intake
Maxbore.com TB used stock tb, was 75mm, now 82.5 mm +20% flow at the same pressure
port matched elbow between TB and blower
water/meth injecting before the Steig ported blower this gave additional 1 lb of boost vs injecting after blower
Lower +4 lb pulley installed
Kenne Bell Boost A Pump 17.5 v to pumps when activated. The stock fuel delivery system tops out at approx +20% or +74 HP, so you MUST add fuel delivery capacity or you will be limited to an approx +74 HP gain from any number of mods.
Completely stock exhaust
12" pusher fan in front of inter cooler radiator (this made a big difference)
Notes: I'm running 245 45 18 tires, these are 3% larger than stock tires, so the speedo is reading 3% low. Also, this was not a hard race "launch" using the stall converter, so the time obviously could have been better, and this was with 3/4 tank of fuel, and a full trunk, so I could have taken out over 150 lbs, but I did not because I wanted a real world accurate test as I am not selling anything. This is not marketing, this is a video of a real run.
When I first came to this board I simply trusted what I read on the board, but after learning enough to suspect some opinions were likely wrong, and I started to suspect some were intentionally giving incorrect information, I started testing things myself. I have tried many things that did not work, and found that some of the information given on this board was very incorrect, like:
1: Eatons could never perform this well, to that I say really? did you see the above video??
2: Porting Eatons does not work or is counter productive, but I gained more than 1 PSI via porting, porting reduces temps too.
3: Adding pulleys is counter productive as they make Eatons consume more power than they would make, this has proven to be baloney, fancy graphs are posted which are completely incorrect and stated as "fact" on this site that propose adding a lower pulley will only gain 15 hp. This graph is completely incorrect and frankly B.S. When you watch my video, does it appear the power at the top end rpms is only 15 hp over stock? Not a chance, this car PULLLS hard at the high rpms! Like I said, video proof trumps non-factual, non-evidencial graphs any day.
4: Modified Eatons will make so much heat your engine will always be suffering heat soak- again, not in my experience, mine does not fade run after run after run. Of course I beefed up the cooling efforts. The water/meth injection has been VERY effective, and ported blowers run cooler. The 12" fan on the inter cooler radiator has worked very well for me, probably as well as or even better than a much more expensive larger radiator with no fan. Again, I do not see any major heat fade. I have the stock inter cooler radiator. I do not believe you need to upgrade if you have water injection and a fan in front of the inter cooler radiator.
These 4 above were things I was incorrectly told definitely would not work, but tried myself anyways and found out for myself that they do work...and very well. I'm giving the above list because these things do each work to add power and were not expensive or hard to do.
As you can see, the car is pretty fast, and reliable so far, even with the stock head gaskets (knock on wood), and the stock rear end is still holding, these are all straight bolt-ons, and you can do one piece at a time if you like. Many of these parts can be found used at large discounts on Ebay, etc. This build could be duplicated for $3,500 or less and yields approx +100 flywheel hp over stock as evidenced by the reasonable 0-100 calculators and the fact that adding + 8 to 8.5 psi of boost, while still successfully controlling temps could yield no less than approx 100 hp.
For the record, my aim is not to have made my car the fastest. My goal was to get to the point of diminishing returns and stop there.
This car is somewhere in the mid 12's 1/4 mile.
I think people should be able to get accurate information about what mods do and do not work on this board. I hope others can benefit from my successes and failures, so I am displaying my info of what worked for me here:
2000 XJR with 56,000 miles. When stock, the boost gauge read 9.5-10 as all 4.0s do. It is the 4.2s with the larger crank pulley that get 11.6. Those who say otherwise are flat out ignorant. After my mods I see 18 psi when it is above 65 degrees, and 19 if below 60
Here is a list of the mods I did to get the performance you see in the video:
ProM 92mm MAF
Custom 4" to true 3.5" less restrictive intake
Maxbore.com TB used stock tb, was 75mm, now 82.5 mm +20% flow at the same pressure
port matched elbow between TB and blower
water/meth injecting before the Steig ported blower this gave additional 1 lb of boost vs injecting after blower
Lower +4 lb pulley installed
Kenne Bell Boost A Pump 17.5 v to pumps when activated. The stock fuel delivery system tops out at approx +20% or +74 HP, so you MUST add fuel delivery capacity or you will be limited to an approx +74 HP gain from any number of mods.
Completely stock exhaust
12" pusher fan in front of inter cooler radiator (this made a big difference)
Notes: I'm running 245 45 18 tires, these are 3% larger than stock tires, so the speedo is reading 3% low. Also, this was not a hard race "launch" using the stall converter, so the time obviously could have been better, and this was with 3/4 tank of fuel, and a full trunk, so I could have taken out over 150 lbs, but I did not because I wanted a real world accurate test as I am not selling anything. This is not marketing, this is a video of a real run.
When I first came to this board I simply trusted what I read on the board, but after learning enough to suspect some opinions were likely wrong, and I started to suspect some were intentionally giving incorrect information, I started testing things myself. I have tried many things that did not work, and found that some of the information given on this board was very incorrect, like:
1: Eatons could never perform this well, to that I say really? did you see the above video??
2: Porting Eatons does not work or is counter productive, but I gained more than 1 PSI via porting, porting reduces temps too.
3: Adding pulleys is counter productive as they make Eatons consume more power than they would make, this has proven to be baloney, fancy graphs are posted which are completely incorrect and stated as "fact" on this site that propose adding a lower pulley will only gain 15 hp. This graph is completely incorrect and frankly B.S. When you watch my video, does it appear the power at the top end rpms is only 15 hp over stock? Not a chance, this car PULLLS hard at the high rpms! Like I said, video proof trumps non-factual, non-evidencial graphs any day.
4: Modified Eatons will make so much heat your engine will always be suffering heat soak- again, not in my experience, mine does not fade run after run after run. Of course I beefed up the cooling efforts. The water/meth injection has been VERY effective, and ported blowers run cooler. The 12" fan on the inter cooler radiator has worked very well for me, probably as well as or even better than a much more expensive larger radiator with no fan. Again, I do not see any major heat fade. I have the stock inter cooler radiator. I do not believe you need to upgrade if you have water injection and a fan in front of the inter cooler radiator.
These 4 above were things I was incorrectly told definitely would not work, but tried myself anyways and found out for myself that they do work...and very well. I'm giving the above list because these things do each work to add power and were not expensive or hard to do.
As you can see, the car is pretty fast, and reliable so far, even with the stock head gaskets (knock on wood), and the stock rear end is still holding, these are all straight bolt-ons, and you can do one piece at a time if you like. Many of these parts can be found used at large discounts on Ebay, etc. This build could be duplicated for $3,500 or less and yields approx +100 flywheel hp over stock as evidenced by the reasonable 0-100 calculators and the fact that adding + 8 to 8.5 psi of boost, while still successfully controlling temps could yield no less than approx 100 hp.
For the record, my aim is not to have made my car the fastest. My goal was to get to the point of diminishing returns and stop there.
This car is somewhere in the mid 12's 1/4 mile.
Last edited by WaterDragon; 06-08-2014 at 10:40 PM.
The following users liked this post:
User 070620 (02-05-2016)
#2
The following users liked this post:
WaterDragon (12-17-2013)
#3
The following users liked this post:
User 070620 (02-02-2018)
#5
All stock 4.0s run 10 psi.
It is the 4.2s with their larger lower pulley that run 11.6ish
Did you ever go to the larger intake tube and bored TB?
Last edited by WaterDragon; 02-25-2014 at 11:55 AM.
#6
#7
Somebody emailed me asking where I put my boost gauge vacuum/boost line access, but I somehow erased the message. Hopefully they can see my response here.
I simply added a T in line with the vacuum/boost line that comes off the supercharger lid on the passenger's side on the top of the motor. I have also added a 2nd T to this line to run another vacuum/boost line to my Snow Stage II water injection, as I have found that the boost control is far better than the MAF signal.
I simply added a T in line with the vacuum/boost line that comes off the supercharger lid on the passenger's side on the top of the motor. I have also added a 2nd T to this line to run another vacuum/boost line to my Snow Stage II water injection, as I have found that the boost control is far better than the MAF signal.
Trending Topics
#8
The following users liked this post:
WaterDragon (12-19-2013)
#9
#11
#12
#16
That was with a different XJR ( my other blue one, this is a Black 2000)
BUT...That was on a dynaflow which x 1.22= 365 RWHP on a dynojet. Dynojets read 22% higher than dynaflows.
I'll be closer to 400 RWHP (dynojet figures) or 327 rwhp on the Dynaflow dyno with my current set up. This one has like 5 lbs more boost!
All that really matters to me is how it performs in "real life" aka accross the intersection, freeway passing, 1/4 mile, 0-60, 0-100 etc.
BUT...That was on a dynaflow which x 1.22= 365 RWHP on a dynojet. Dynojets read 22% higher than dynaflows.
I'll be closer to 400 RWHP (dynojet figures) or 327 rwhp on the Dynaflow dyno with my current set up. This one has like 5 lbs more boost!
All that really matters to me is how it performs in "real life" aka accross the intersection, freeway passing, 1/4 mile, 0-60, 0-100 etc.
Last edited by WaterDragon; 01-10-2014 at 08:54 PM.
#17
#18
Merry Xmas Sami
There are a couple of mis-quotes, I don't need anyone to point it out to me thanks - but just remember -- the engine only turns 633 times for the entire 1/4 mile
---
Read this through slowly and try to comprehend the amount of force produced in just under 4 seconds! There are no rockets or aeroplanes built by any government in the world that can accelerate from a standing start as fast as a Top Fuel Dragster or Funny Car! DEFINITION OF ACCELERATION One top fuel dragster 500 cubic inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower than the first 4 rows of stock cars at the Daytona 500. It takes just 15/100ths of a second for all 6,000+ horsepower of an NHRA Top Fuel dragster engine to reach the rear wheels. Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 1-1/2 gallons of nitro methane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced. A stock Dodge Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive the dragster's supercharger. With 3,000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle. At the stoichiometric (stoichiometry: methodology and technology by which quantities of reactants and products in chemical reactions are determined) 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture of nitro methane, the flame front temperature measures 7,050 deg f. Nitro methane burns yellow... The spectacular white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapour by the searing exhaust gases. Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder. Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After halfway, the engine is dieseling from compression, plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1,400 deg F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow. If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in the affected cylinders and then explodes with sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half. In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds, dragsters must accelerate an average of over 4G's. In order to reach 200 mph (well before half-track), the launch acceleration approaches 8G's. Dragsters reach over 300 miles per hour before you have completed reading this sentence. Top fuel engines turn approximately 540 revolutions from light to light! Including the burnout, the engine must only survive 900 revolutions under load. The redline is actually quite high at 9,500 rpm. Assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs an estimate $1,000.00 per second. The current top fuel dragster elapsed time record is 4.428 seconds for the quarter mile (11/12/06, Tony Schumacher, at Pomona , CA ). The top speed record is 336.15 mph as measured over the last 66' of the run (05/25/05 Tony Schumacher, at Hebron , OH ). Putting all of this into perspective: You are driving the average $140,000 Lingenfelter 'twin-turbo' powered Corvette Z06.. Over a mile up the road, a top fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a quarter mile strip as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the 'Vette hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line and pass the dragster at an honest 200 mph. The 'tree' goes green for both of you at that moment. The dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your foot down hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears your eardrums and within 3 seconds, the dragster catches and passes you. He beats you to the finish line, a quarter mile away from where you just passed him. Think about it, from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 mph and not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you within a mere 1,320 foot long race course. ...... and that my friend, is how I got Muppet Arms
There are a couple of mis-quotes, I don't need anyone to point it out to me thanks - but just remember -- the engine only turns 633 times for the entire 1/4 mile
---
Read this through slowly and try to comprehend the amount of force produced in just under 4 seconds! There are no rockets or aeroplanes built by any government in the world that can accelerate from a standing start as fast as a Top Fuel Dragster or Funny Car! DEFINITION OF ACCELERATION One top fuel dragster 500 cubic inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower than the first 4 rows of stock cars at the Daytona 500. It takes just 15/100ths of a second for all 6,000+ horsepower of an NHRA Top Fuel dragster engine to reach the rear wheels. Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 1-1/2 gallons of nitro methane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced. A stock Dodge Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive the dragster's supercharger. With 3,000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle. At the stoichiometric (stoichiometry: methodology and technology by which quantities of reactants and products in chemical reactions are determined) 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture of nitro methane, the flame front temperature measures 7,050 deg f. Nitro methane burns yellow... The spectacular white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapour by the searing exhaust gases. Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder. Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After halfway, the engine is dieseling from compression, plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1,400 deg F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow. If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in the affected cylinders and then explodes with sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half. In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds, dragsters must accelerate an average of over 4G's. In order to reach 200 mph (well before half-track), the launch acceleration approaches 8G's. Dragsters reach over 300 miles per hour before you have completed reading this sentence. Top fuel engines turn approximately 540 revolutions from light to light! Including the burnout, the engine must only survive 900 revolutions under load. The redline is actually quite high at 9,500 rpm. Assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs an estimate $1,000.00 per second. The current top fuel dragster elapsed time record is 4.428 seconds for the quarter mile (11/12/06, Tony Schumacher, at Pomona , CA ). The top speed record is 336.15 mph as measured over the last 66' of the run (05/25/05 Tony Schumacher, at Hebron , OH ). Putting all of this into perspective: You are driving the average $140,000 Lingenfelter 'twin-turbo' powered Corvette Z06.. Over a mile up the road, a top fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a quarter mile strip as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the 'Vette hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line and pass the dragster at an honest 200 mph. The 'tree' goes green for both of you at that moment. The dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your foot down hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears your eardrums and within 3 seconds, the dragster catches and passes you. He beats you to the finish line, a quarter mile away from where you just passed him. Think about it, from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 mph and not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you within a mere 1,320 foot long race course. ...... and that my friend, is how I got Muppet Arms
Last edited by dc4prez; 01-06-2014 at 06:09 AM. Reason: I own the post
#19
Sure they may have nitro, liquid oxygen, hydrogen, etc. 2 billion HP, but...
...the quiet, mild mannered "XJ8" badged WaterDragon has something they do not...
The element of surprise hah hah
And now for something completely different: currently in muppet labs:
...the quiet, mild mannered "XJ8" badged WaterDragon has something they do not...
The element of surprise hah hah
And now for something completely different: currently in muppet labs:
Last edited by WaterDragon; 01-06-2014 at 12:40 PM.
#20
The following users liked this post:
WaterDragon (01-06-2014)