Hey All, I need your help applying logic to my situation.

I've owned my 2012 XJL Supercharged for two years now, I'm the second owner, 70k miles on the car, and the engine developed a rattle Friday on the way home from work. Not a good sound to hear. I drove it straight to the shop here in town that has done all the maintenance work on it for the past two years (and there has been a LOT of maintenance work), they tell me one rattle is the timing chain, and the second rattle is deeper inside the engine. The engine is toast. Done. DOA. Engine replacement is $15,000 to $16,000 dollars. Wow. This is my daily driver, and at 70k miles the engine blows up. The car was just in that same shop 4 weeks ago for the oil change and annual service. No signs of anything wrong, clean bill of health.

So I called the Jag dealership in Portland Oregon, just north of me, to double check the estimate on a new engine. The service tech looked up a new stripped engine only from the factory, and that part has a price tag of $42,000 dollars!!! I asked him four different times to double check that we were taking about a stripped down 5.0 V8 engine, and not the entire vehicle (which is only worth $20,000 dollars on KBB mind you). He double checked and told me again that $42,000 is just for the stripped motor. That doesn't include the install, the peripheral parts, that's just the motor in a crate from the factory. He said if the shop in my town gave me a price of $16,000, then they would be installing a used motor. So I asked the service tech how can they sell any cars with this type of owner/customer support? He said they sold lots of cars there, but no one ever actually replaces an engine. So I said it sounds like Jaguar is making disposable cars then. A brand new $95,000 XJL Supercharged depreciates below $42,000 in 5 years. So really, Jaguar has no interest in shipping out replacement engines. That's how you price something you need to have in your catalogue, but don't want to actually sell. He said all I can do is look up the price of a new engine for your car in the catalogue.

I called the shop in my town and they confirmed that $16,000 price was for a used motor with a 2 year warranty. Wow.

So to sum this up: I've owned this car for two years. The maintenance costs over that two year period have averaged $180 a month. Yes it has cost me over $4,300 dollars to keep this car running down the road for two years. (Alternator and battery, engine coolant sensors and reservoir, AC compressor, front suspension lower control arms, suspension ride sensor, EBC brake pads, new set of tires) Not to mention my car payment every month. And I did my own break job a year ago to save that $1500 quote. Now at 70,000 miles, the engine blows up. And I have 4 more years of payments on the car.

All my friends warned me "NOOO!!! don't buy a Jaguar! All they do is break!" I argued that was Jaguar of the past! Tata Motors bought Jaguar from Ford in 2008 and they have all new production factories, better parts, better build, the new Jaguar is on the up and up! I read articles, I watched all the YouTube videos, I drank the Kool-aid! I believed that the new Jaguars were not like the old problem cars of the past.

Does anyone here have any alternative ideas on what a Jaguar owner can do in this situation? Can I ask Jaguar for help? Some explanation why a timing chain goes after $70k miles? I understand that if the timing chain jumps, all heck can break loose and your engine is toast. How can I have my car in for a full annual service 4 weeks ago and there were apparently no signs that the timing belt was potentially loose? Can this catastrophic event just happen at random at 70k miles? I can accept that the touch screen inside the car was developed as a 2nd grade school class project and Jaguar said, "We like it! But lets lose the glued on cotton *****." But the one thing Jaguar is supposed to be know for is their engines. If Jaguar has a $42,000 dollar price tag on their engines, how do they blow at 70k miles?

Jag owner hoping for a miracle... or maybe just some condolences.

 

wow. sorry to hear this

 

First, I'm sorry to hear of your situation. It seems like in most cases moving onto a different car is most cost effective. I wonder what your car sounds like. Is it possible for you to upload a clip/video of it running so that we can hear it?

 

I would check online. There seems to be engines available in the $6000 - $10,000 range from what I saw.

 

What you should do is properly diagnose what is wrong with the existing engine.

 

Really sorry to hear of your catastrophic failure. Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but a dealer with good techs would have diagnosed and recommended time chain guide and tensioner repair just by listening to your engine at startup. Jags are not cheep to own and mine has had many repairs, thankfully, under warranty. But the secret to mitigating extreme repairs is a tech that know this car. I don't know how your XJ has been serviced, but using the correct oil is super critical on these cars. I have just over 100k on my XJ Supersport and have had it serviced and maintained by my dealer since new.

 

So sorry to hear about your issue...
This is a way more common issue than people here like to admit. My service shop said no matter how well the engine is treated or serviced there is a flaw in the timing and unless you proactively swap out the cam gears, timing chains, and guides and tensioners for about 5k, you're not really safe driving the early motors. (Pre 2014) At any rate, the same thing happened to me, tensioner failed on one side of the motor causing the right head cam to jump a tooth and it slightly bent all the valves on that side.

So I also had to swap out the motor. I went with a 2016 motor from lkq to put in my 2011. There's a few things to swap due to the newer computer system, but the 2016 worked perfectly. I found one for $9,800 and was also able to sell the supercharger, the good head, and a few other parts from my old motor to make back about 2,500 or so. I recommend a newer motor as they fixed a lot of these problems with the timing, some badly placed sensors, and all the water pump nonsense.

Here's the info to the guy who found my motor.
He found me a 2016 with only 4 miles delivered under 10k. Literally was brand new.

Email him and see what they have, good luck





txcobb@lkqcorp.com
Tommie L. Cobb
Sales Representitive -National Call Center |LKQ Corporation
41247 E. Huron River Dr. Belleville, MI 48111
(Cisco) 83001029


Also rebuilding these motors is more expensive then replacing and it's very hard to get Parts's so you might as well swap with a good clean low mileage used motor. A good indie shop should charge about 4K for install.

 

Hold on. The engine still runs, correct? Its just making noises? Correct? May be jumping to conclusions. Replacing the engine is just sort of the default response, particularly at a dealership because they don't typically do internal engine work. And some independent shops don't get into "machine work". Its just standard operating procedure to replace entire "components". You'd get the same diagnosis and recommendation if you brought in a Ford or a Mazda, just the engine would be cheaper. Part of the way shops make money is counting on people not getting a second opinion. Its so much trouble to take the car to someone else, especially if it has to be towed, and people are so busy and just want their car back ASAP that most will just say go ahead and fix it.

If the motor still runs, there's a good chance it can be saved. The timing chain they described, if they are right, is unlikely the chain itself, but rather the chain guides. Jaguar did subsequently issue an updated chain guide that will last much longer than the original. If there is anything clinking around inside the motor besides the chain guides, it could be a bearing, a wrist pin, a valve or any number of other single components. I don't have a supercharged 5.0, but I've read there's some part in the supercharger that can pretty commonly make noise too. I recommend getting a second opinion, but first call around and try to find an old-school shop that would be comfortable going into a motor and doing "machine work" if that's what it took. They may have to charge you to pull the motor and dismantle it to inspect internal components, but then worst case scenario, it had to be pulled anyway. Just don't drive it with it making noise as if it breaks to the point that the motor stops running, then it could do further damage and cost more. Have it delivered on a truck.

 

I’m very sorry to hear your problems. I too bought an early year X351 XJ (a 2010). I had to spend crazy amounts of money (more than you) to bring the car up to the 2015/16 specs for these exact reasons. The timing chain/tensioner/ guides, water pump, coolant pipe leaks and supercharger coupler issues definitely angered me. I feel like I’ve had to moonlight as a mechanic to make sure I didn’t brick my car. I’m now happy to be done with all the major updates/repairs so I can finally enjoy ownership, but it was definitely a challenge . Fortunately for new XJ owners the major issues were resolved by 2015/ 2016.

Did your shop’s diagnosis include more than sound coming from deeper inside the engine? Did they definitively identify the problem? I agree with other comments that it is critical to know that the engine is indeed broken before considering it’s replacement. If it is blown definitely look at LKQ, they seem highly recommended. Though at that point you may want to part out your car (see marketplace on these forums) and buy a Lexus.

Best of luck and report back if you can.

 

My problem was a bit different; a blown head gasket... TWICE!!! Fortunately, my car was still under warranty but we were out of town when the second incident occurred and we made the decision to trade it in "as is" condition on a new Cadillac XTS and we haven't looked back. We're now into our 19th month of ownership with the Cadillac and have had zero problems. I hope you find the miracle you're looking for.

Dwayne

 

I would definitely get a second opinion and a more thorough diagnosis.

 

The replacement Jaguar sourced motor for mine was $32k for a non-supercharged model. The original engine blew when the water pump failed big time on I-40 at 42k miles. It also went with quite a death rattle.

 

This right here. If the engine still runs that is a very good sign. Just don't drive it anymore.

 

Get a second opinion , google an engine specialist near you

 

Thanks Everyone for your suggestions. Yes the motor still runs, I had to move the car a few feet to get it loaded onto the tow truck at the auto shop. I had it towed home so I didn't have to make any rash decisions. It's now in my driveway, looking really pretty... I have researched buying reconditioned engines for this car, and I can get them from $2,500 with high mileage and no warranty, to $9k with low mileage and a 5 year warranty. But that's just for the engine. I still have to pay a shop to swap it out. Someone above gave me an email, and I will look into that. Thanks!

The shop I go to specializes in British and other European cars, but they didn't see this one coming. Spending $5k a few months ago on new timing chain, tensioner, guides would feel like a deal at this point. There is a Jag dealer up in Portland Oregon. I could have it towed there for a second opinion as they are an actual Jag service center. If they could tear into it for $8k, that might be worth doing. It will be such a shame to see it sit in the driveway and flat spot the tires for the next 4 years while I make payments every month. At least if I keep the battery topped off I can go out and enjoy the 1200 watt stereo! The music will cover up my sobbing.

Parting it out doesn't sound fun, but each headlight assembly goes for about $1k used on ebay, so that route might be my best way out of this thing. Everything in this car is in great shape, minus the engine...

What I'm hearing though is that I need to get a second opinion. Given the gravity of my situation, I think I will. I'll report back on what happens. It's still really too bad that Jag didn't acknowledge this flaw and do a recall. Seems like an engine design that is a ticking time bomb should be addressed proactively.

Thanks Everyone!

 

I would get a 2nd opinion from the dealer without talking about previous diag. That sc snout ratlles as does the water pump when the bearing fails and they dont always leak. There is not a big issue with chain tensioners and guides unless you read here. Everyone comes here around the world and talks about their failures. At our level this is a very small fraction of engines. I know the sounds both make and so should an experianced tech at the dealership. You can chack play on the wp pulley and undo the belt from the sc and check for and aft play not to mention start the engine and see if the noise is still there or not. Yeah engines are expensive. Limited rebuilder worldwide and well its a luxury car and all luxury car parts are expensive.

 

Wow, condolences; new car or "another car" in order.

 

Any updates?

 

Sorry to hear this. I am in texas and the a new 3.0 supercharged engine was $25k another 3 k or so to replace. Really glad the warranty covered most of it, I paid about $2.6 for the cooling system replacement, fluids, etc. Be very careful who you get to put it in if you get an engine in. I don't know if the engine or the install but the timing was off 2 days after picking it up. Jag dealership said it might be under warranty. $4k later they told me the warranty only covered the parts, after they put in new tensioners saying it precautionary. The installer pointed fingers to Jag, Jag blamed on it the install so I was out another 4k afterword. It might be worth it to redo the timing chain and tensioners if you get an old one, the 4K was purely labor would have been about around $2k at my indie. They didn't charge me for the tensioners, it was almost all labor with a 16 hour job. A good part of that 16 hours is pulling and reinstalling the engine. Might want to check coolant system as well. There is a plastic pipe under the supercharger that leaks and it is 8 hours to fix if the engine is in because you have to pull the supercharger.

Make sure they have a warranty on the work if pipes leak, timing is off etc. I was out of town when mine blew and didn't have many options, my car was in the shop for months first with the engine then again with the dealership taking for ever to get the timing and giving me no communication as well as snowballing me with the part warranty will cover it then blaming it on the installer after they did the work. They refused to even see if Jaguar would cover it, even just give them the facts. The pompous *** service manager said he knew they wouldn't and he wouldn't even look into. The jackwagon manager wouldn't do anything either. Then they wouldn't put in writing it was likely caused by the installer so I could see if they would pay for part of it. Jag NA was even worse to talk, they were immediately saying no before they knew all the facts.

 

Not to change the subject too much - but these XJ threads are starting to scare me, lol.

The one saving grace (for me as a current non-owner yet) is that most of these problems seem to be on the 2010-2012 models - I realize that doesn't help those who own these models...

The number of problems seems to be decidedly smaller with the 2013/2014+ models.