Have any of you replaced the HPFPs yourself?
#1
Have any of you replaced the HPFPs yourself?
I appear to have a failed HPFP (or set), so I'm looking into replacing the set.
They look reasonably (or should I say questionably) easy to get to, but the procedure says to remove the right motor mount and a few easier things.
When the replacement pumps get here I'll be able to look at them for a better idea of if they'll fit. But otherwise, it looks do-able, although a little tight.
In the photo below, keep in mind that the HPFPs still have the acoustic covers on.
Any experienced anecdotal advice to lend?
They look reasonably (or should I say questionably) easy to get to, but the procedure says to remove the right motor mount and a few easier things.
When the replacement pumps get here I'll be able to look at them for a better idea of if they'll fit. But otherwise, it looks do-able, although a little tight.
In the photo below, keep in mind that the HPFPs still have the acoustic covers on.
Any experienced anecdotal advice to lend?
#3
Well today's progress was a mixed bag.
The 2 HPFPs that I ordered from Rock Auto Wednesday night arrived this afternoon, but one of them had a broken connector so it's going back & I had to order a replacement.
Apparently I can't expect it to get here until Tuesday April 5, although I paid $33 for FedEx next day shipping. I didn't see that until I got the notice that it had "shipped" at about 6PM. I'm hoping it really did ship & FedEx will be here tomorrow with it.
But since I was busy under the car, I just now got around to reading the details in the e-mail and the 4-day next day shipping.
But I did get both HPFPs off reasonably easy.
After reading all I could find related to the task, I dropped the undertrays, pulled the idler pulley & alternator, drained some oil & got to the pumps.
JLR Topix and the other resources I could find indicates that the HPFP fuel line upstream of the pumps is always replaced with the HPFPs.
I've read some anecdotal ideas that they are replaced in case there are metal shavings from a bad pump in there that could go to the injectors & ruin them, but in this case, it runs smooth until reaching normal temp, so I don't think anything is clogged.
I've also read some that fuel rails should also be replaced.
With the rails over $800 each & the HP fuel line at $212 (not too bad) but something else I'd have to wait for, I'm opting to replace just the pumps, sans the lines & rails.
This is also considering the problem the system is exhibiting, where it runs/idles reasonably smooth (but throws the "restricted performance" warning) until it reaches normal operating temp, where it begins to run/idle rough, degrading to the point of struggling to idle.
From what little I could find on similar posted experiences to read, the best bet is the HPFP.
I am still suspect of the in-tank LP pump, but that's a bit pricey, albeit easier to replace, so I'll check that option if it still acts-up after the HPFPs.
Then there's what JLR SDD suggested as I ran it.
The 'lift pump' in the tank seemed to pass test a few times, not that I'm sure how extensive the SDD 'lift pump' test is. It seemed to just run it for as much as 30 seconds.
BUT I was able to hear the LP fuel pump turn-on & charge when it should (like when you open the door). So nothing indicates the LP pump.
If there were a filter, I'd check that. Not that filters actually get blocked, and this thing gets only the best fuel from shiny clean gas stations anyway. But I can't find a filter unless we consider the sleeve on the LP pump pick-up. It would take a lot to block one of those.
And running the HPFP SDD test several times was often 'inconclusive', but did fail or at least furrow it's software brow at the HPFP test a time or two saying both pumps could be bad.
As non-committal as SDD was with that, that was enough for me to try the HPFPs.
And since I wasn't replacing the HP fuel lines from the pumps to the heads, I didn't need to remove the right motor mount, which was the most daunting thing I was facing. It just has to be removed because the HP lines run under it.
And although the rear (#2) HPFP is closest to it, it is accessible without removing the mount.
I was able to replace the rear (#2) pump with the one good one that I arrived, and when the other pump gets here, I'll install it where I removed pump #1 from - it's easier access.
Then I'll re-install the little cover over the HP lines just above pump #1, the alternator, idler pulley & get the belt back on.
I'll leave the undertrays off for a while to see if the line junctions leaks, which would mean I WOULD have to order a new $212 HP fuel line and remove the motor mount (and another pulley), but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
And of course hoping that it runs normally again, without the delay starting and rough-running when warmed-up.
As with most things on this car, I didn't need much more than the 10mm and 13 mm socket or wrench, except the fuel lines took a 17mm wrench. The HPFPs were fastened with 2 Torx screws each.
Now I wait for that other pump to get here.....
The 2 HPFPs that I ordered from Rock Auto Wednesday night arrived this afternoon, but one of them had a broken connector so it's going back & I had to order a replacement.
Apparently I can't expect it to get here until Tuesday April 5, although I paid $33 for FedEx next day shipping. I didn't see that until I got the notice that it had "shipped" at about 6PM. I'm hoping it really did ship & FedEx will be here tomorrow with it.
But since I was busy under the car, I just now got around to reading the details in the e-mail and the 4-day next day shipping.
But I did get both HPFPs off reasonably easy.
After reading all I could find related to the task, I dropped the undertrays, pulled the idler pulley & alternator, drained some oil & got to the pumps.
JLR Topix and the other resources I could find indicates that the HPFP fuel line upstream of the pumps is always replaced with the HPFPs.
I've read some anecdotal ideas that they are replaced in case there are metal shavings from a bad pump in there that could go to the injectors & ruin them, but in this case, it runs smooth until reaching normal temp, so I don't think anything is clogged.
I've also read some that fuel rails should also be replaced.
With the rails over $800 each & the HP fuel line at $212 (not too bad) but something else I'd have to wait for, I'm opting to replace just the pumps, sans the lines & rails.
This is also considering the problem the system is exhibiting, where it runs/idles reasonably smooth (but throws the "restricted performance" warning) until it reaches normal operating temp, where it begins to run/idle rough, degrading to the point of struggling to idle.
From what little I could find on similar posted experiences to read, the best bet is the HPFP.
I am still suspect of the in-tank LP pump, but that's a bit pricey, albeit easier to replace, so I'll check that option if it still acts-up after the HPFPs.
Then there's what JLR SDD suggested as I ran it.
The 'lift pump' in the tank seemed to pass test a few times, not that I'm sure how extensive the SDD 'lift pump' test is. It seemed to just run it for as much as 30 seconds.
BUT I was able to hear the LP fuel pump turn-on & charge when it should (like when you open the door). So nothing indicates the LP pump.
If there were a filter, I'd check that. Not that filters actually get blocked, and this thing gets only the best fuel from shiny clean gas stations anyway. But I can't find a filter unless we consider the sleeve on the LP pump pick-up. It would take a lot to block one of those.
And running the HPFP SDD test several times was often 'inconclusive', but did fail or at least furrow it's software brow at the HPFP test a time or two saying both pumps could be bad.
As non-committal as SDD was with that, that was enough for me to try the HPFPs.
And since I wasn't replacing the HP fuel lines from the pumps to the heads, I didn't need to remove the right motor mount, which was the most daunting thing I was facing. It just has to be removed because the HP lines run under it.
And although the rear (#2) HPFP is closest to it, it is accessible without removing the mount.
I was able to replace the rear (#2) pump with the one good one that I arrived, and when the other pump gets here, I'll install it where I removed pump #1 from - it's easier access.
Then I'll re-install the little cover over the HP lines just above pump #1, the alternator, idler pulley & get the belt back on.
I'll leave the undertrays off for a while to see if the line junctions leaks, which would mean I WOULD have to order a new $212 HP fuel line and remove the motor mount (and another pulley), but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
And of course hoping that it runs normally again, without the delay starting and rough-running when warmed-up.
As with most things on this car, I didn't need much more than the 10mm and 13 mm socket or wrench, except the fuel lines took a 17mm wrench. The HPFPs were fastened with 2 Torx screws each.
Now I wait for that other pump to get here.....
Last edited by 12jagmark; 04-02-2022 at 09:30 AM.
#5
Good info but I did not see the price for the HPFP?
I guess for Jaguar there are only the stock pumps available? I ask because upgrading the HPFP is quite common on the American hot rod side of things. Mainly because they guys are running corn and you need more volume when running Alcohol fuels.
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.
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I guess for Jaguar there are only the stock pumps available? I ask because upgrading the HPFP is quite common on the American hot rod side of things. Mainly because they guys are running corn and you need more volume when running Alcohol fuels.
.
.
.
#7
Mark, I did the HPFPs myself. I didn't replace the fuel rail or the fuel line when I did it. All has been good for almost a year now. I would not worry about it unless you find shavings and whatnot. In my case (like yours), I replaced the pumps as a step towards figuring out what was wrong. In my case, it was a failed injector. So, I most likely didn't have anything that would have caused any foreign material in the fuel line. I also did not remove the alternator or the belt. I did it all with the rest of the car assembled (other than the under tray).. It was tight, but it can be done. As long as you don't overtighten the compression fittings on the fuel pump, there should be no need to replace lines. You go Hulk on them, next time, you will be paying for new lines. You should be able to take them pretty much all the way with your fingers and then go the last little bit with the wrench. As soon as you feel the torque start to rise quickly, stop. You should be good there.
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#8
#9
Thanks Thermo-
Didn't you have indications of a fuel smell at the time?
One thing I noticed was I don't have any smell of fuel near the engine or exhaust, and I do have the low fuel rail pressure code.
So while low pressure could indicate an open injector, I'd smell gas.
Was your injector stuck open or closed?
I did notice the HP fuel lines weren't torqued very heavy on the pump outputs - not that they were leaking, just as they should be.
TOPIx procedure says 21 Nms (~15.5 ft/lbs) for the connections.
Oddly for the HPFP fasteners to the block it has us torque to 11Nm, then back-off 1/2 turn, put the acoustic cover on, then tighten back to 11 Nms again. I'd be interested in why that is.
I can't torque the line 'unions' properly since I don't have a crows foot, so I'll do what I can (from memory of when I took it off) and make sure they don't leak before I put the undertrays back on.
The replacement pump was just delivered a little bit ago, so I'll get back into it as soon as I can break away from work.
Hopefully once I get it back together it'll be back to it's normal self.
Thanks for the experienced advice!
Didn't you have indications of a fuel smell at the time?
One thing I noticed was I don't have any smell of fuel near the engine or exhaust, and I do have the low fuel rail pressure code.
So while low pressure could indicate an open injector, I'd smell gas.
Was your injector stuck open or closed?
I did notice the HP fuel lines weren't torqued very heavy on the pump outputs - not that they were leaking, just as they should be.
TOPIx procedure says 21 Nms (~15.5 ft/lbs) for the connections.
Oddly for the HPFP fasteners to the block it has us torque to 11Nm, then back-off 1/2 turn, put the acoustic cover on, then tighten back to 11 Nms again. I'd be interested in why that is.
I can't torque the line 'unions' properly since I don't have a crows foot, so I'll do what I can (from memory of when I took it off) and make sure they don't leak before I put the undertrays back on.
The replacement pump was just delivered a little bit ago, so I'll get back into it as soon as I can break away from work.
Hopefully once I get it back together it'll be back to it's normal self.
Thanks for the experienced advice!
Last edited by 12jagmark; 04-04-2022 at 02:14 PM.
#10
Mark, yes, I had a very strong smell of gas coming from my car. So, I knew I had some sort of issue, but what could it be. After much investigation and time, that was when I was left with only the fuel injectors. I think one of my fuel injectors got something into it from the fuel rail as they were doing the water pump on the car. But ,I could never get my hands on the fuel injector to see if that was the case.
As for you how to torque the fasteners without a crows foot, it is a fairly simple process. Find something that you can stick the same size bolt into and torque it to the required 15.5 ft-lbs. Now, using a wrench to fit on to the bolt, pull on the wrench until the bolt just starts to move. Do this a few times to get a feel for what this feels like (I find closing my eyes helps). You then immediately get under the car, hold the wrench the same way and tighten the nut till you get that same feel. That will put you pretty close to what the correct torque is.
As for you how to torque the fasteners without a crows foot, it is a fairly simple process. Find something that you can stick the same size bolt into and torque it to the required 15.5 ft-lbs. Now, using a wrench to fit on to the bolt, pull on the wrench until the bolt just starts to move. Do this a few times to get a feel for what this feels like (I find closing my eyes helps). You then immediately get under the car, hold the wrench the same way and tighten the nut till you get that same feel. That will put you pretty close to what the correct torque is.
#11
I let it idle until it got to operating temp after getting it off of the ramps, then took it for a little ride. It seems back to it's old self. No fuel or oil leaks around the pumps.
I know what you mean about the feel for the torque. The main thing to consider with my sense of torque is the length of the wrench. Since I used the same wrench to tighten the termination as I removed it with, so I tried to apply about the same pressure as when I removed it. No leaks so far.
The alternator & idler pulley were pretty easy to remove/replace and didn't take much more time. I figured it would be easier to remove that plate that covers the HP line at HPFP #1 with the alternator off.
Thanks for the tips!
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