How do you compare the new xj with the other older models, from 2003-2008.
I meant the handlings due to new front suspension, the rear of the car etc...

 

The new XJ is much better than the previous generation. We owned a 2005 VDP for 4 years. The 2011 XJL we have now is just fantastic. The ride is much better - firmer and controlled but not harsh. The car is a fantastic combination of performance and luxury.

The look of the car is a subjective thing, but it looks beautiful. The 98 Vanden Plas we owned was a better looking car than the 2005 VDP (in my opinion). I actually wih we had kept the 1998 VDP. It just has magnificent lines. The 2011+ MY XJ is a modern equivalent of that 98 VDP look.

Great ride, powerful, beautiful. We have had a couple things repaired but nothing in the drive train. Just a couple small items and the battery. So I think the quality is pretty good as well. All cars have issues of some kind. Some purport Lexus as an example of quality...has Jaguar ever had cars that accelerate uncontrollably?

It's a fantastic car!

 

Thanks a lot Rscultho, I had 3 version of the xj myself, 3 x350 1 type 3 and 3 95-2003, me too i like my 95 handlings a lot.
I like your cars combinations....its why I was enquiring, indeed. Good color indigo.

 

I have the two models, my X350 will have covered 190000 miles in a couple of weeks time, I love it, the handling is great and I find, when I am alone in the car haha, that I can really throw it around, it sits nice and flat through the bends and holds the road well. The comfort is great, it is on 18" wheels and has the normal suspension set up.
The newer X351 has covered 23000 miles now, again I am really pleased with the car, attracts attention where ever I am, lots of admiring looks and comments, especially in the metallic red as well. The ride is maybe a bit firmer, it rides on 19" wheels but is stil comfortable and not too harsh.
The cornering is also brilliant and it sits very flat throughout the bends as well. I find it is easier to make the rear step out than on the earlier car, maybe it is due to the extra torque, the 3.0 twin turbo diesel has masses of torque and hits 60mph in 6 seconds, amazing for a diesel car .
You can snap it back in line easily enough though.

 

I've recently changed from driving a 2007 X350 XJR to a 2012 XJ Portfolio. Both were/are riding on 20" wheels and whilst I would never have described the earlier car as harsh, the new one is certainly more compliant but at the same time better controlled. I think the reversion to front coil springs is a great improvement whilst understanding the need of course to retain air springs at the rear.

Difficult for me to compare other aspects of performance. Whilst the X351 3.0D is remarkably torquey, the drive is no match for the 4.2 SC V8. The XJR never let you forget it had claws whilst my preceding X308 4.0 SC XJR was such a pussycat unless you kicked t.

 

I would REALLY love to take a different 2012 XJL for an extended test drive. My original complaints, regarding my particular XJL, have returned; the ride is way too HARSH.

As I posted here before, I changed tires after 2K miles, hoping to eliminate the ride harshness. Seemed to slightly help at the time but, now I am back to an unacceptably harsh ride. Even after the tire change I was just ho-hum OK with it but, far from satisfied.

Maybe you guys can do some comparison so that I can get an idea if this is only my XJL or, perhaps, others are simply not that sensitive to the ride qualities. In my car, basically saying, I feel every single one (millions) of the road imperfections through the seat cushions and the steering wheel. There is an ever present VERY slight vibration in both that really does not bother me if I am only doing short commutes but, completely wears me down during my regular 150 mile-long drives. By the time I reach my destination I have a headache and just want to get the hell out of the car.

Last week I tried to put a foam pad over my seat which helped to isolate me from the seat vibrations. So now, I have ordered one of those memory seat cushions for that purpose. But, I can think of no similar solution for isolating the steering wheel kick-backs and vibrations.

Some people think that such road sensitivity represent good "road feel" and is actually a plus in the handing of a car. Not so, IMO. As I demonstrated to my wife, we could be in my ultra high performance sports car with ultra stiff suspension which transmits great shocks from the road but, the steering wheel is always dead calm, as it should be. The Jag just feels nervous all the time. Our 2012 XF does not have the same harshness, nor does any other car I remember owning. We had checked tire roundness, balance, alignment, etc. all is fine. I am at the point of just wanting to get rid of the car that I otherwise love for all other of its aspects. I would be very happy with the car if I could have the ride issues solved.

Many professional road test reviewers pointed out a harsh ride in the 2011-2012 XJ. That makes me think that my car may not be the exception. What may be the the factor is the long distance drives that I routinely make and my lesser tolerance to what I consider unacceptable vibrations coming through the chassis. It is like a 30 round boxing match where your opponent is constantly jabbing you with very slight punches. You barely feel them in the first 5 rounds but, by the end you are completely worn down from the cumulative effects.

Next time you drive you car on a freeway (black-top surfaces seem to be the worst) please check to see if your steering wheel is 100 percent calm or, does it have constant minor kick-backs and a hardly perceptible vibration, as mine does. I will be taking my car for its first service (8000 miles on the car) in a few weeks and would be nice to have some comparison data available. According to Jaguar documentation they changed the spring and damper rates on the 2013s, seemingly responding to the very issues I am complaining about. I do plan to take one for a test drive when I drop my car off, even hoping to ask and get a 2013 as a loaner for the day. A 5 miles long test drive is simply not enough to catch all these minor issues that can have major impact on the ownership.

Albert

 

Just four weeks ago I traded a '05 XJR in on a used '11 Base 351 with 21K miles. The differences are fresh in my mind. On the plus side for the 351, I enjoy most of the technology and especially the blind spot monitor and the cooled and massage seats. It took me a while to figure out how to work it all but that is to be expected. I love the overall design....much better looking than the Mercedes S and BMW 7. In fact, it is gorgeous. No wonder Automobile Magazine gave it their 2011 design award! I like the intimate feel of the cabin with the easy reach of the buttons. And I like the rear sun roof but not the fact that it reduces the opening for the front one or lays the front roof over the top. It is very powerful and sounds great but so did my turbocharged XJR. I loved hearing that old turbo whine! I think the 351 handles significantly better than my '05. It also feels much tighter.

For me, there are negatives on the 351 and they are not insignificant. Does anyone really expect you to keep that massive key in your pocket? The rear window is small and hence difficult to see out of. Yes, there is a rear screen and I like it but do not like being too dependent on it. The thought that the grill is all plastic probably should not bother me but it does. I agree with others who have written that the ride is choppy compared to my '05. And even with 20 settings, I have not gotten completely comfortable but I am working on it! I do not like any of the 351 wheel choices whereas I had Sepangs available on the '05. I thought they were pretty awesome and others did too judging from the compliments. The touch screen is difficult to use on both models but Jag had lots of years to produce a great improvement and wasted them. If they cannot produce a great screen, license another company's technology.

Oh, and I really like the five year warranty that came with my '11 that includes maintenance items. I think it is a great selling point for a car that has historically not been known for great dependability. (I did find my '05 quite dependable.) Jaguar should have kept it not only for new but used car sales values. We all know that Jags depreciate faster than last week's stock market. The warranty would have helped with that.

In closing, I am not dissatisfied with the newer car. I would make the trade again. But I am trying to be honest with my reactions.

 

Albert

I'm not sure this is all that helpful, but I have a '13 supercharged. Not sure if the combination of detuned for 13 and firmer SC compares to your 2012, but I can relate to your "vibration" on rough surfaces. I can feel it and know it's there, but it's not as much of a distraction to me. Mind you I used to own a Lexus, so I know what isolated and numb ride is like.

I took a 600 mile trip in one day. The thing was superb on the highway and smooth blacktop. No complaints at all.

I like the balance and admit it could be smoother, but if I wanted smoother, I would have stuck with Lexus. I am running the summer Dunlop Sport Maax GTs in 20 inch size. They are very good tires.

Good luck and hope you find a solution. How about going to the dealer and test driving a new one?

 

Thanks guys for the inputs. Not really happy to see that even with the 2013's softer suspension you have some "vibration". Of course, that could be also the difference between your 20" wheels and my 19"-ers or any suspension tuning difference between the SC and my NA XJL. I am planning to take a test drive in the 2013 XJL when I drop my car off in 3 weeks for service. Hopefully, I can talk them into giving me a 2013 XJL loaner as a short test drive may not uncover the ride issues, just as my present car's 5 miles test drive did not. I will let them know that I would be potentially interested in trading mine for a 2013 if, the ride is indeed better.

Having said that, I just realized that the issue has not been serious enough for me to trade cars with my wife. She drives the 2012 XF locally over short distances, which would be perfectly fine for the XJL while I could take the XF on my long drives. Too bad that the XJL is so gorgeous that I HATE to give it up.

We are planning a quick trip to Vegas, probably 1100+ miles roundtrip. As it is, definitely an XF trip. I would not look forward to take up with the XJL's harshness over that distance.

Albert

 

"By the time I reach my destination I have a headache and just want to get the hell out of the car."

That says it all, Albert. The XJ is supposed to be best at high-speed cross-country trips. If it isn't working for you, you have to let it go.

How about a Beacham MkII?

 

Thanks for the suggestions but, I am not really into retro cars. As far as letting the XJL go, hmmm..... not quite there, yet. I still consider it the best looking, most luxurious large sedan on the market and still hoping that I can work out the issues either by an unexpected service solution or by trading it for a 2013 XJL.

Albert

 

Oh yes, for sure the XJ is a lot more than a car. It would be a real shame if one didn't work out for you, so I'm crossing my fingers for you. I like your approach and, for what it's worth, encourage you to work with the dealer or a specialist to find a solution.

 

night and day difference.

the 351 XJ feels/drives much more like a sports car than the 350's. It doesnt feel as big and bulky. The engine has more grunt, nicer sound exhaust

The 351 interior feels more cramped than the 350 (im comparing the long wheel base versions), however the layout is much nicer. the stereo is a HUGE improvement in the 351. the navigation system is just as crappy.

each is gorgeous in its own respect. the 350's had that timeless classic look to it....but the 351's are just pure sex

i like my cars to drive stiff....so while some people complain the 351 is harsh, i prefer it over the 350. to me the 350 felt floaty at higher speeds, especially on bumps

 

Car after car are now getting outrageously large wheels (which don't bother me too much) with outrageously slim rubber on them (which bothers me a lot). I can't stand 40, 35, or 30-series tires on any car--and most desirable cars nowadays have them. My XK8 has 19-in wheels and they are a nightmare anywhere near a large city due to substandard paving.

The only car IME which rode decently with 35-series profiles was my CLK Mercedes. I have a BMW with 55-series tires--RFTs yet--and I love them. Thing of the past though it seems.

 

Albert,

So we have driven 3 XJL's prior to the 11 XJL we have now. The XJL we have now is not supercharged.

We routinely drive a couple hours to my wife's mother's house. It is a combination of interstate, surface, and even some back roads.

I have to say I was stunned to read you get a headache from driving your XJL. The ride of our XJL is as good as the ride with our 98 XJL, and this is with the Pirelli tires. The steering wheel does not kick or move even over harsh bumps. This past Saturday we hit a couple of very deep holes that came upon us quick; before we hit them we both cringed and thought the holes would be bad, especially at the speed we were traveling. We barely felt them as we went over them.

There are no vibrations from the road in our seats - at least I cannot feel any - and my wife ha not reported any issue with this. My wife complains - or maybe the word is "reports" - on every tiny little issue she encounters (not just with a car) so trust me when I say that if there was any issue with a harsh ride I would have heard about it by now.

As you know my daily driver is my XKR, and the XJL is her daily driver. I have been in the XJL with her boss and one of her fellow VP's and they both said it was like riding in a limo. They also gave her more grief about making too much money driving such a nice car...but I digress.

So, I am genuinely curious about you guys who say the ride of the car is harsh. I'd really like to drive your cars to compare to the XJL we have. I absolutely adore my XKR, but I LOVE driving the XJL on the weekends when we go anywhere.

I will say that the 05 VDP we had drove and rode like $hit until we put the Continental Extreme Contact DWS tires on. Those tires really improved the 05's ride. We have both commented in the past that we did not feel the "Jaguar connection" with the 05 VDP. I would rate the 05 the least desirable Jag we owned.

Wish I could help more...sorry about your experiences in your XJL.

Edit - BTW, we have 19" wheels with the Pirelli P Zero tires at the current time. We will be putting the Continentals on once we get some life out oif these Pirelli's.

 

Thanks for the feedback. It is somewhat confusing to see feedback from both directions; some complaining of harsh ride, others do not experience it.

When I first dropped my XJL at the dealer with the complaint, shortly after the purchase, their initial road test conclusion was that my car drove like any other XJL. Then, they found a bad damper that they replaced. While I am always suspicious of dealer's service trying to pass off an issue as "normal", I was not surprised as test driving it over a couple of miles just will not uncover the full extent of the problem.

So, it likely comes down to either that my particular car has an issue that none of the tests and tire changes/balancing/checking could uncover, or, that I am particularly sensitive to the ride qualities of this car. Against the second possibility is that I do not ever remember having this issue with any other cars, many of which had much more of a "sports car" suspension. Also, that Jaguar felt the need to make those spring/damper changes on the 2013s.

Ultimately what would be ideal if I could drive an other 2012 XJL over the same roads for the distance. Not very likely as I doubt the dealer will lend me a car for such purposes. I'll try to test drive the 2013 XJL and see if I can talk them into letting me drive it at least for 30 minutes, or so.

For visible effects while on a freeway, I would lay my relaxed left arm on the window sill and see the arm actually slightly shaking with the vibration in the car. This, just going over regular black top road surfaces with no visible pavement irregularities. Needless to say that is not acceptable for me in a luxury car.

Since I have a 2012 XF with good ride, the same wheel pattern and 18" wheels, one of the things I plan to try is to switch wheels between the cars. I think the XF wheels have an offset of 49. Do you recall the wheel offsets for the XJL? Not expecting much as the XF tires are slightly smaller diameter thus, the actual sidewall thickness is not all that much different.

To me it definitely feels like overly stiff damper compression rates failing to absorb even the slightest road imperfections without transmitting them into the cabin, seats and steering wheel. Heck, even my wife is sensing the harshness in the passenger seat and this is the same wife who normally would not take note of a wheel falling off her vehicle :-)

Albert

 

Wow. I also use the door sill to rest my arm from time to time...never seen my arm vibrate.

That is not normal, especially in this car. I would be all over the dealer with the ride issue.

Unfortunately I don't know the wheel offsets for the XJL. I will have to find out. Just so you know, they stamp the offsets and other info on the back of the wheel. SO you can take one off and find specific info that way.

I wonder if the damping rate is something that can be adjusted outside of what is programmed at the factory, or is it possible that the computer(s) that manage(s) the ride are not programmed correctly?

Since your car is under warranty, I'd go to the dealer and request rather firmly they reprogram the appropriate computer system due to this problem and see if there are any changes. That would only require computer time and no parts or significant mechanical labor.

 

Pressure them to give you a 2013 loaner for a day or two. If the ride is significantly better, you can just have them replace the struts with the upgraded parts.

That shouldn't be too hard on their part.

Regarding the wheels, since you stated you have 19", they are either Tobas or Aleutian wheels?

I can't see for sure, but looks like the Toba is at 60mm http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-CHROME-EXC...070391&vxp=mtr

EDIT: may be not. He says they are at 49mm.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-9x19-MIN...item589692f79d

 

The wheels should fit. I put xj wheels on my xf (19"). The xj will generally have more sidewall (approximately 5 more - e.g. 245/45 vs 245/40).

 

Thanks. I was thinking that the proper tire size with the 18" wheels would be the 245/50. It would give about 12mm more sidewall than the 245/45 and pretty much equal the diameter of the present 19" tires.

I leave that solution last as I had already purchased a set of new tires after only 2K miles on the car. Don't think that the problem is with them.

Albert