I have a 2015 XJ 3.0 supercharged AWD w/48K miles that I bought used w/35K miles, as a Jaguar certified pre-owned vehicle (I also purchased an extra 2 year or 100K miles warranty). I took into Jag dealer for brakes, as the warning message displayed something like “brake pads worn”. Dealer said that the pads and rotors must be replaced on all 4 wheels and the pads cannot be changed by themselves but must be replaced as a set with rotors. Cost around $2400 total. Got a quote from Belle Tire for $1300 with OEM parts.

Any suggestions on whether the original Jag dealer parts are worth the extra $$?

Also, could having a non Jaguar dealer work on the car void the warranty?

Thank you in advance...

 

Several parts to your questions which I will try to answer as best I can. Forgive me if I get any part of this wrong as it's all from memory.
1. When the low brake pad warning triggers you don't know if it's a front or rear pad, the Jag system doesn't differentiate between the two.
2. The brake pad wear sensors are on only two of the eight pads, front left inner and rear right inner, so who knows the condition of the other pads.
3. A wear sensor is supposed to trigger when the pad thickness reaches 25% of new, and new pad thickness is 13 mm on the front brakes and 10.8 mm on the rear brakes. So if it is accurate there is still plenty of pad left and no need to panic.
4. But the system is problematic, there are many reports of it triggering prematurely (when there is still heaps of pad left) or very late (almost no pad left) or not at all. I estimate the wear sensor system is accurate around 90% of the time but IMHO a 10% error rate on something as important as brake pads is not good enough.
5. The ONLY way to be sure is to physically examine the brake pads which means whipping at least one front and one rear wheel off and removing the pads - not as hard as you might think.
6. JLR dealerships are told to always tell the customer that new pads = new brake rotors/discs as well. The rationale is that for optimum braking performance both should be renewed at the same time. This is complete BS, one set of rotors/discs will last for two sets of pads 99% of the time with zero problems. Feel around the edges of your rotors/discs and if the "lips" on the outer edges are less than 1 mm then those rotors/discs are still good to go for another set of pads.
7. $2400 total is a complete rip-off.
8. OEM parts are not worth what you will pay for them, heaps of just as good if not better discs and pads out there at much lower prices. Many after-market pads will also give you the added benefit of waaaaaay lower dust than the horribly dusty OEM pads.
9. Having a non-JLR shop work on the brakes will not void your warranty as long as they are a properly accredited and licensed brake shop.
10. Replacing the pads and/or discs is a fairly easy DIY as long as you have some skill with the spanners, DIY will save you a bundle, give you a real sense of satisfaction, and the chance of a warranty problem is extremely small as long as you do your research and do it right. I have replaced discs and pads and even calipers on three Jags now with zero problems and I am by no means a skilled spanner turner.

 

Used brake rotors are better than new ones in some ways, if they are still true and have sufficient thickness. Thickness is not determined by the size of any lip, it’s done by measuring the braking surface.

They are better because they have been thoroughly conditioned in terms of stress relief.

 

Sorry that is just a giant rip off!

I replaced all 4 of my brakes on my 2014 XJR for under $400. Can't find the receipt right now. Mainly because of the brake dust as these are Carbon Fiber/Kevlar pads. I have Porterfield R4-S pads front and rear.
Are you happy with the factory pads dusting? I was not and I have black rims too.

Since you waited until the sensor light came on plan on replacing the wear sensors. Only 2 per car. I think it's the rear drivers side and the front passenger side for the wear sensor positions. But not a big deal as they are cheap and you can wire around them and bypass the entire system if you want. Then never any more dash lights. I decided to keep them as I changed brake pads before the light came on.

I never replace the rotor unless it's worn out of specs. I like the Cryo treated rotors too but they are NOT required.
Can you do your own work?
It will save you a ton of money for sure!
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Challenge the dealer to find that instruction in any JLR documentation. They will fail.

Rotors must be replaced if:
1. they are below minimum recommended thickness
2. scored as a result of allowing pads to wear down to the metal
3. warped

Pads MUST be replaced in axle sets - NOT automatically as a full vehicle set.

Graham

 

Sounds like Cryo treating is a stress relief method. Might make brand new brake rotors less likely to warp during their early life. But no rotor has been more stress relieved than one that's been in use for tens of thousands of miles. Imagine how many heat/cool cycles that's been through.

 

Well they outlast non-treated rotors for me about 3-1. But the expense and hassle of getting them treated has stopped me from doing that anymore. The big downside was if you get a sticking caliper/slider pin which is not that uncommon you can ruin a cryo disc just as fast as a non treated disc when metal to metal contact occurs.
Disc's are just not that expensive and even untreated I get many miles of wear out of them.

Of course I have NOT priced the large rotor's on my XJR yet!
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Well, here's my two cents, (or English tuppence !)
You bought the car at 35k miles. It is therefore likely that new pads had already been fitted to the discs before you bought the car and were already part-worn when you bought the car. Whilst it is a Jaguar-warranted vehicle, you'll find that brakes and pads are not warranted. So here you are now at 45k miles and the dealer checks the discs and pads, and finds the discs as maybe getting near to, or even on, the wear limit. Putting new pads on will be OK, but the life of the pads is then expected to exceed the point when disc wear gets to the minimum thickness. The dealer then tells you that new discs are needed as well as new pads. For me this is reasonable as most owners just don't understand that discs wear too, and can get to a dangerous state if allowed to wear beyond the limit. So I understand their recommendation. The main problem is they have to sell Jaguar parts, and these are expensive. They don't need to be so, but Jaguar like most other up-market car companies try to get their profits where they can.

As the discs and pads are not warranted, it is a no-brainer if you want to save money, to fit aftermarket parts; absolutely nothing wrong with that, but there is an awful lot of stuff out there and some is very good and some not so good. The cheap stuff tends not to have any coating on the non-wearing, but visible part of the discs so you see rusty discs through the gaps in the road wheels. They probably provide good braking but not good aesthetics. You can pay more, although less than the Jaguar discs and get very reasonably priced parts.

My experience with aftermarket discs was with my first X350 when I had the fronts replaced by Ferodo items. They warped and I had to make a warranty claim, after which they were OK. My last car, an X358 (basically a restyle of the X350), I had Jaguar discs fitted to the front and got a special price at the dealers. It must be my smile ! These were perfect and were on the car when I part-exed it at the same dealer for an XE.

 

Thank you everyone for your input. I'm glad I asked the forum. You have all saved me thousands of dollars!

With you guidance I have looked into other options and I am finding much more reasonable prices.

Thank you all so much for your suggestions...

 

It appears that you don't know the difference between (1) "the original Jag dealer parts" that "must be replaced as a set with rotors. Cost around $2400 total" and (2) the "quote from Belle Tire for $1300 with OEM parts".

OEM is the abbreviation for Original Equipment Manufacturer. Jaguar dealers are required to use only those parts that your car was born with when it left the factory. Your Jaguar dealer and Belle Tire both quoted you using OEM parts. But are you comparing apples-to-apples? Your Jaguar dealer's quote is to replace everything except the calipers with new genuine Jaguar parts (OEM) - 4 new rotors and pads and related small parts for $2400 including labor and tax. If Belle Tire's quote includes all of the same parts, labor and tax, then the only difference is $1100, assuming that the quality of workmanship is the same.

That big of a difference makes me wonder if Belle Tire's quote includes (1) replacing all 4 rotors, or merely resurfacing your existing rotors and (2) parts that are "OEM-equivalent", which are aftermarket parts that will fit - but are cheaper and don't perform as well as OEM Jaguar parts. Make sure that you're getting all the identical OEM Jaguar parts from Belle Tire.

Jaguar engineers design brake systems to meet high performance standards including, but not limited to, short stopping distances and quietness under all driving conditions. I've been a Forum member for 9 years and the only complaints I'm aware of with Jaguar brakes are excessive brake dust and the cost. Brake pads are a compromise, and Jaguar engineers decided that a soft pad compound that provides good initial bite, quietness, and long rotor life was best for the XJ, notwithstanding the brake dust. Ceramic pads, while producing less noticeable dust (because it's not black) are a harder compound that can cause faster rotor wear and reduced life.

Brakes are the single most important safety system on a car. For this reason, I prefer to use OEM Jaguar parts. But it's your car, your money, and your choice. If you decide to use aftermarket brake components, buyer beware. There are many fake famous brand Bimbo fancy drilled and slotted rotors and "no dust" pads on Ebay that are cheap and dangerous Chinese knockoffs. Buy from a reputable retailer and know what you're getting. Bimbo may look good, but it's not Brembo. Your life may depend on it.

 

Stuart, I reckon most if not all of the difference in quoted prices is the Jag dealership mark-up.
IMHO they effectively work out a fair price then double it, some customers might moan a bit but most will shell out.
And there is nothing "special" about the factory OEM brake parts, decent after-market parts are just as good for a lot less money.
I have replaced heaps of brake parts including discs, pads and even the rear calipers on the F-Type on all three of my Jags with 95% of those parts being "cheap" after-market and I have never had the slightest problem with the brakes. Quite the opposite in fact, in every case the brakes have been better than the original brakes - good powerful and progressive braking with zero fade, rotors and pads lasting much longer, zero brake judder ever (very common on XFs and XJs), way less brake dust, zero or very low noise or "graunch" (all three of my Jags originally graunched badly when coming to a stop) and much smoother and more progressive operation.
The ONLY thing that some might consider a negative is the lack of immediate bite that the OEM pads have, instead the pads I use have a soft initial bite and are much more progressive and easier to modulate in stop go traffic.

 

As I said, your car, your money, your choice. But Buyer Beware - Brembos are great but Bimbos can kill you!

OzXFR, your specific aftermarket brand recommendations would be helpful. I agree with you about outrageous Jaguar dealer markup. Porsche and many others are just as bad or worse. But that's the price of buying any high-end expensive brand. That's part of the appeal of a Prius. Thankfully, I can afford my Jags and enjoy the ride!

 

Thank you Start S,

Yes. I did check the obvious of "apples to apples". Written estimates includes all 4 and a brake fluid flush.

While I appreciate your input and concern, in my case, it's not a matter of being able to afford a luxury brand but rather the principle of being taken advantage of, because I can...

 

What aftermarket brake pads do people recommend for DIY on the XJ? Would love to cut down on the crazy amount of dust I get on the front wheels

 

Porterfield R4-S and some type of wheel coating.
I use Pinnacle Black Label Diamond Wheel Coating and there is a noticeable difference even with the OEM pads.

 

What tool do you need to do the rear pads? Does something like this work?

https://www.harborfreight.com/disc-b...-pc-63264.html

 

Yes that is the exact tool I used on my 2014 XJR.
For Harbor Freight that's kinda expensive!
Seems well made and heavy duty.
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I have been pleasantly surprised by the Jaguar brake pads on my XE. On my two previous Jaguars, both X350s, the wheels soon get covered in black dust, but the XE stays much cleaner for longer. The other aspect of using dealer-supplied discs and pads is that they are fully warranted for defects for 12 months. If you go down the after-market route, they will also be warranted, but for parts only, and you will have to rely on the goodwill of the shop for refitting. FOr Jaguar supplied stuff, labour is also included as they are a Jaguar dealer. On the other hand, when a car gets to be some years old, and its value is a helluva lot less than new, it is a no-brainer to use aftermarket parts and specialists.

 

I used rotors and pads from R1 Concepts. They have 12-month parts warranty. I would probably also try the porterfields or brembro pads as they come highly recommended.

All these parts are insanely cheaper than Jag prices. Yes, even Brembro pads on Rock Auto are cheaper than Jag pads. I paid ~$650 for pads and drilled/slotted rotors all around, but I did my own work. Brakes are a great beginner service to learn on your car. Over the years it will save you thousands.

 

I suggest a couple of resources for better-than-Jaguar replacement brake pads & rotors:

1 - Rock Auto (I usually get many parts for my wife's Jag & my Range Rover from there, especially the best brake pads & rotors)
For example, they offer a set of front ceramic pads from Power Stop (the brand I always use when possible) for as little as $32 for a full front set. Very clean replacement pads.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...brake+pad,1684
Your rear pads are probably fine at 48k miles, since rears do not wear nearly as much as the front, but still worth a quick visual inspection.

2 - Summit Racing

3 - Autohausaz.com

I've found the best prices on non-Jaguar authentic parts from them.
For authentic Jaguar parts, several dealerships offer better-than-MSRP prices; I often (but not quite always) prefer Merriam Jaguar for authentic Jaguar parts.

Go ahead. Take a few minutes to shop around. Be smart and knowledgeable on your options.