Hi guys,

My XJ had a driver's seat problem and repaired last Aug. I couldn't hear seat belt-chime bell after. I have visited the service center several times for solve this problem. However, they have yet to find the cause. And only recently have I noticed that the "Seat belt reminder graphic" on my Jag is not visible.

1. It's a problem - no seat belt graphic, no seat belt chime bell (door chime-bell works)



2. IPC self test - Bell test: no problem.



3. CCF check - no problem (I compared it other XJ.)




4. Self reset - no changed (tried 9 and 10 times)



5. Battery reset - no changed


My son is 5 years old. He always sits in the car seat. But these days, he's starting to get a lot of curiosity. I found that one day he had his belt untied. I was so startled. I thought chime-bell I heard when the door was opened was of the seatbelt. I've never had a seatbelt chime bell force off. I felt so stupid for myself.


I am angry with their incompetence. I stayed my Jag to the service center for 2 months to correct their mistake.(There were no problems with my car.) I don't want to repeat it again. Reluctantly, I made an appointment to visit the service center and the earliest date is April next year.


Please help me.
Best regards,
KIM

 

KIM, I want you to try something for me. Get into the car, buckle the seatbelt. Now, start the car. Once the car is up and running (car in Park), unbuckle then immediately buckle the seat belt. Do this 8-9 times. You should head the belt minder chime at the very end saying that the minder is now active. As part of this, you should see the belt minder icon light for a short period of time (no sounds, only the visual icon) when the buckle is undone. Doing this procedure should turn the belt minder back on. If it doesn't, then you have a problem inside the buckle latch that is not allowing the switch to trigger the belt minder.

 

@Thermo , Thank you very much for your interest. I've tried these 6 ways:

A

B

C

D

E

F
Maybe there's a way I've missed it?

Thanks!
KIM

 

Kim, then I need to do some more research. From what you posted, it seems like the car is registering the buckle movement and is turning the system on and off. But, why no sound, not sure. I would need to look. I am thinking that I remember reading that there is 2 sounders for the instrument cluster and I am thinking that may be one of the sounders is not working, hence why you are not getting all the audibles that you should be getting. let me see what I can find.

 

Thank you for your consideration.

I'm trying to think of a problem as a hardware problem or a software problem.

1. Hardware
1-1. Buckle problem
I bought used Buckles(Pair) on eBay because the new was too expensive.

1-2. Connectivity problem
I looked at the circuit. The driver buckle appears to connect directly to the airbag control module(RCM). I found 4 wires connected. Purpose of "Power(C3R114B-17)" and "GND(C3R114B-34)" is clear, but do you know the purpose of "Pretensioner RTN(C3R114B-18)" and "SB SW(C3R114B-25)"?




2. Software
2-1. Configuration problem
There is something very worrisome. I know they tested this and that to repair InControl. (My Jag took 2 months to repair InControl) I'm worried they haven't modified the BCM. Is there any way to initialize the BCM or check the changes they have made? (I think there is no problem with CCF. Maybe...)


Best regards,
KIM

 

Kim, the pretensioner (what those 2 wires do) is they set up the circuit for the safety belt that is up by your shoulder. In short, it locks the belt every time you step on the brake. Try it out. Find a long hill that you can ride your brakes down. You do not need to step on the brakes hard, but just enough to activate the tail lights. Now, attempt to lean forward. You should find that the belt will not let you. It will be locked in place. part of the safety aspect of the car. I know I use this feature when my kids are being unruly. You make sure no one is behind you, then you give the brakes a quick tap. The belt holds them in place, the kid gets a little jolt from the car changing speeds, and you then have their attention to correct the condition on the spot.

 

Does the car have to be in motion for the pretensioners to activate? Or can it be checked sitting still as it would be at a stop in traffic?

Also, is that same sounder used for any other warnings? If so, is it also silent when those actions happen?

Just a couple of questions....

 

Kim, the belt minder will not sound if you are going under 10 mph (16 km/h). So, this may somewhat explain what is going on. This would allow the belt to be unbuckled and not sound an alarm/light a light. It may also be that your child is not heavy enough to activate the weight sensor in the car, making the car think the seat is not occupied. After that, the circuit is pretty simple. The central junction box sends a signal to the instrument cluster saying whether to turn on the belt minder icon and noise emitter and the central junction box gets the belt indications from the RCM for the rear seats and the classification module for the front seats.

Reading the service manual, it does say that the belt minder can be disabled/deactivated 2 ways. The driver can press the information button on the steering wheel and that will turn off the belt minder (have you had issues using the buttons on the steering wheel?). The other way is to get into the computers and via the diagnostic computer, the system can be disabled. I know you have said that the dealership has ensured it is on, but I am only seeing but a few possible options here.

The proving test I would do is to get another adult to ride with you that weighs over 50 KG (110 pounds). This will ensure any sensors will be activated. Have them sit in the back seat and buckle in. When in a safe area, get the car above 10 mph (16 km/h) and have them unbuckle their belt momentarily. You should see the indicator come in on the instrument cluster for their seat. You can also have them undo the buckle for the other seat to see if that sensor comes in. If they don't, then I would be looking at your RCM module as being defective (ie, not seeing the seat belt positions). You can then repeat this with the person in the passenger seat. Because this is going through a different circuit for the most part, this will eliminate a lot of things. If neither the front nor the back seats cause the instrument cluster to indicate properly, then you have an issue with the instrument cluster. You do not mention having error codes for other reasons (which you would get if the RCM or the classification computer lost its ability to talk on the CAN network).. So, I am assuming those are good. I wish you were closer to me as I would tell you to bring your car by and I would connect up my computer to your car and be able to see exactly what is going on. Along these lines, if the car is still under warrantee, I would try taking the car to a different dealership if at all possible and explain to them what is going on.

Mark, reading the manual, it says that the locking feature engages via a motion sensor and whenever one of the following is seen:
-braking
-cornering
-steep hill conditions with adverse camber conditions
-parked on a steep incline or driveway
-2 wheels resting on a high curb (ie, body leaning to the side considerably)

If you are looking to test things, simply get the car up to speed (say 30 mph), apply the brake some and if you pull slowly out on the belt, you should feel it fight you. Do not jerk it out as that is testing a different function of the belt.

 

@Thermo Happy new year! Thanks to you, I know what the wiring is for. I tested it late night with no cars, and this function works just fine.


@12jagmark Thank you! I tested pretensioner and it works fine with no problems. Only the seat belt chime bell is not heard. However, when I force tested it with Launch Scanner IPC self-test mode, the sound of the "Belt reminder" was all normal.


@Thermo Thank you very much for your kind reply.

I tested on Dec 31st with my wife.

When driving at 80KPH, there was no chime-bell even when the seat belt was unbuckle. Of course she was in the passenger seat and driver seat was the same. At this time, the red seat belt warning light comes on, but no other messages are displayed. So there was no need to press steering's button.

My next booked is Mar 21st(Monday) and the warranty period of my Jag is until April 2023. They are very passive. They make repairs only if I point out which part needs to be repaired.

I go to an private auto repair shop first to have it checked and then to a Jaguar service center. They(Jaguar) will proceed with the repair only if I provide data and photos. When I visited "Rocker arm cover" leak a while ago, they could not find where the leak was even though I specifically mentioned it. I had to point by my hand. This is the tip of the iceberg. They suggested me drive without a chime bell. What the ... Jaguar service centers in my country are notorious. They are just parts suppliers.

RCM, seems like a very reasonable doubt. I'll try to find out if there is a way to self-update. (I have a high performance power supply, genuine JLR-VCI/w SDD and TOPix account. Yes, I am not a mechanic. I'm just personal owner.)



A heartfelt thank you to everyone. Happy new year!
KIM

 

KIM, it sounds like you are on your way to a repair.. Sorry to hear that you have to deal with a service center like you do. Granted, you are not unique as I periodically find those places here in the US too. This is where being a knowledgeable owner pays off. If you have SDD, the power supply, and a TOPIx account, then you should be good with one minor exception. Because you own a 2017 vehicle, you should be using Pathfinder, not SDD. This may be part of the reason why you are not finding all that you should. In 2017 Jaguar switched over to Pathfinder for their vehicles. If you have SDD/Pathfinder, just be online when you connect to the car and the computer will go out and find that latest and greatest to all the modules. Then you just select what you want to install.

 

@Thermo , Thank you very much!

Jaguar service center processing is very slow and need many times visit. Although it's a warranty period, it's better to do what I can.

XJ (X351) didn't not support DoIP until 2019. So I'm using SDD not Pathfinder. I tried updating RCM, today morning, however, no new update files were found. SDD initialized and reset the module, only. If WERS is not forcibly modified, it looks like impossible to update any more.

No error occurred. I had high expectations, but nothing changed. So I'm so sad.



Would it be helpful if I reprogram(or reset) the BCM or GWM? I was going to try today, but I couldn't because I was afraid. I've heard that if something goes wrong with them, it's fatal. Do you have any good ideas?

Best Regards,
KIM

 

Kim, I would be looking into what controls the instrument cluster and going from there. Could be something very simple there. With your tests, we know the information is making it to the instrument cluster. So, why is the cluster not outputting a sound? May not need a complete reprogram but more a look at all the switches that you can turn on and off and see if there is one for a sounder (not speaker). Because we are looking at 2 different computers that control the indications that you are after, that is why I am not looking at them. You would have to have had both of those computers either experience the problem (highly unlikely) or someone got into them and turned off the indication (which you have been told is not the case). May not be a bad idea to atleast look and see what the electronic switch is saying.

 

Hi,

No idea if this helps, but i have fixed weird behaviors 2 times of my 2010 model by performing "Vehicle reset" from SDD. Once ECM/Clusters were not turned Off at all, even vehicle locked for hours and 2nd time climate conrtrol went bezerc; Only hot air to the drivers foot, and nothing else.
I am sorry; Can´t remember where excactly the Vehicle reset function are in SDD. Haven´t needed to use it so much that learnt it...

 

@Thermo , @Vasara

Thank you very much! It's frustrating, but I think it's fun to learn one by one. I am also studying hard.

I've tried updating the IPC. IPC also had the latest software installed. Instead, SDD initialized the IPC. There was no change. I had tried CAN RESET and nothing happened, too

I looked at the working structure of Beltminder.
And components.




Yes, Driver/Passenger buckle connect to RCM directly.



1. IPC, RCM, CJB, and BUCKLE seem to be the key elements.
2. In the IPC self test, I can hear the chime-bell. But, Reminder-Graphic test is not possible.
3. Doesn't hear Chime-bell(No-test mode) and I don't see the Reminder-Graphic either.
4. Remainder-Graphic ON/OFF is in CCF. CCF was compared to that of a real-car.
5. RCM, IPC are latest software.

I'm really wonder if the Jaguar Center in my country can fix this problem. My friend's F-Pace 2019 doesn't work all audio related functions. They haven't been able to fix this. It's been a year since the repair started. His car is very quiet.

Thank you very much!
KIM

 

Kim, this is where you may want to write to jaguar directly and state your case. Explain to them that they have had the car for a few months, keep saying that they have this problem fixed, yet, I still have the same condition. The dealership admits it is a problem, but I am not getting it fixed and you are asking for their help. This may seem a bit drastic, but this will do 2 things for you. 1, it wakes the dealership up to the fact that you are not going to just let this be and that they need to something a bit more, and 2, jaguar will send in a tech from someone else and have them look at the car. Not sure if your area has what is called a "lemon law" (ie, if the dealership cannot fix and issue, then you get to trade in the car for its worth and either take the money or purchase a similar car for no money). Dealerships hate dealing with that, but Jaguar can step in on your behalf and force it to be done. Your friend with the F-Pace I would say has a real good case for a lemon-law vehicle. I think you have a fair chance too. You may have a better chance really because your problem is more safety related and therefore will get more attention.

 

@Thermo Consumer protection laws in my country are bad. The Lemon Law is like a dream that the victim must prove the problem.

I solved this problem!

and...

now...



I could hear and see chime and belt reminder graphic. Thanks to your dedicated help, our family has become safer.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
Best regards,
KIM