Hello all,

I have to disassemble the front end on my 2013. I have clunk over bumps and vibes when turning and accelerating. I also noticed a thud when changing directions and using the brakes hard, I had someone get in the car and try some forward and reverse rolls with hard braking and you can see some excessive forth and aft movement on the wheel in relation to the car. I also feel the tires are loaded, they unload hard when turning and a bump is present, hard to explain the last point, but when jacking up they car this is pretty obvious as the tires don’t just lift up they scrub inward on the bottom. Almost like they want to fold in and only the weight of the car keeps them from folding, not sure if it’s normal geometry. Given the price of OE parts and not that many aftermarket options. I was thinking of replacing the high failure bushings with powerflex bushings. Im ok hiving a little quiet up a little as long as I get durability. I live in the city and the roads are simply horrific. Anyways any impressions?

 

Unlike the normal bushes which flex to allow wheel movement, Powerflex bushes do not. Instead there is a stainless steel inner that pivots on the Powerflex bush to give movement. This is lubricated on initial assemble, and requires re-lubrication at intervals, (not sure how long, but probably 5-yearly). There is a loss of refinement, but most people put up with it to get the longer life of the Powerflex bushes.

 

Did some investigating. Looks like the torsional arm aka Banana might be the culprit, the power flex inner bushing won’t help and the joint at the spindle seems suspicious. Sounds like I need new torsional arms. Interestingly the inner bushings looks like a multi piece with different black and teal durometer and not the fluid filled stuff. Not sure if the previous owner had serviced them.

 

I am sure you can get the small bush you show as knackered, as well as the larger trunnion bushes. I haven't seen the layout for the front suspension with a drive shaft on it, so it's a bit unfamiliar to me. Your main trunnion looks OK. The front lower shock bush is not a long life item unfortunately but cheap to buy. Replacing bushes is labour intensive, I'm afraid as there is all the dismantling and reassembly to be done, plus the workbench work with a press and mandrels.

 

The one in question is not serviceable, its part
of the arm. See number 11 nut junction, that’s why the poly ones won’t help . Everything down there is squishy, no wonder things fail frequently, my city would take these out in a heart beat. Time to rethink the strategy.

 

Is it a V6 AWD? Or what? They have different arms.

I have a used V6 AWD banana arm on Ebay right now. The outer joint, 11, is solid and tight, but the inner bushing has just the start of a split.

Now they say that the bushing for AWD arms is unavailable, but I bought C2Z5119, the bushing for non-AWD, and it is identical in every respect I can discern. I installed them in my arms on my 2015 AWD 10K miles ago, and all is fine.

 

Also, that inner bushing is not fluid filled.

 

Mark my car is a 2013 RWD. And I agree they appear to be aftermarket or maybe jaguar changed designs in 2013. Inners seems tight although that’s a relative term with this car. The 11 junction is the problem or seems to be as it has the biggest play. I would have sprung for the powerflex bushings to give longevity but seems I need new arms to get the smaller outer ends new. Therefore would be silly to stiffen up the inners if they outer is marginal at best. I’m not sure what to do other than buy the aftermarket and see how long they last. 80 dollars each doesn’t seem too bad.

 

So the video isn't of your car ? I say this because it shows a suspension unlike what the parts diagram shows and also I'm sure I see a drive shaft. Anyway, as you say it may be cheaper, (certainly easier !), to just replace the whole banana arm. If you're paying a mechanic, it will probably be cheaper as labour charges mount up when workbench work is undertaken.

 

Thats my car. And it doesn’t have cv shafts unless I have the worlds first AWD 5.0l SC JK. I just ordered a new set of banana arms. When we figure out how to replace the outer bushings and if powerflex makes a set to service them I think the powerflex idea is getting shelved for now.

 

On another note, is there a difference in geometry between the front end rearmost lower control arm, in AWD cars they put aluminum units vs the cast steel ones the RWD cars get. I can only imagine is to lighten the weight, the spindle is definitely different, bolt on hub vs pressed. But it looks like all the mounting points are the same location. So is it just for weight savings? The aluminum ones are not fount in the aftermarket, only new for over $500. Aftermarket for the cast ones are just over $100. I wonder if the aluminum ones can be an upgrade over the cast ones Or inverse maybe the cast can be an alternative for inexpensive repairs on an AWD car.

 

My $0.02 worth.....I know that you shouldn't make assumptions, however I'll stick my neck out and make one here, and I can be corrected as necessary. I'll assume that 'Powerflex' is a brand name for polyurethane bushings, most likely aimed at the European/Asian market. My experience in the past, going back as far as the late 1970s, has been with American supplier, 'Energy Suspension'.

I've used polyurethane suspension bushings in several of my cars, but not any of our Jaguars, so while my knowledge may not be 100% accurate, I'll just say this. Depending on the condition of the roads where you live, and/or do the majority of your driving, polyurethane bushings can be either a joy or a curse. They have a much lesser rate of deflection, acting in some cases, more like a bearing, rather than a flexible bushing. Therefore, A) they transmit more harshness into the car's chassis; and B) in conjunction with 35-40 series tires, which are now mainstream equipment, they increase the risk of wheel/tire damage, because there's less deflection in the car's suspension, when incurring a sharp road impact.

When I first started using poly bushings, back in the 70s, I loved them, because they took a lot of deflection out of my car's suspension. HOWEVER, this was on a car that had a 27" OD tire, mounted on a 15" rim (255/60/15 tire on a 15x8 rim). That was "state of the art", back then, and even so, there was still a considerable amount of sidewall, to cushion the road irregularities. Therefore, the ride quality of the car wasn't destroyed by the reduced compliance in the bushings. However, about 20 years later, I installed a set of poly bushings in another car that I owned, at that time, and the results weren't as pleasant. The later car had 245/50/16, "Z speed rated" tires, mounted on a 16x9.5 rim. The shorter, stiffer sidewalls, combined with the less than optimal roads where I live, made for a downright unpleasant ride. I kept the poly bushings in that car for one summer, then removed them, and went back to rubber bushings. So much for "race car oriented parts" being used on a street car.

My point is that while the removal of a lot of the deflection in the Jag's OE suspension might provide "cat quick reflexes" in cornering, the degradation in ride may not be worth it. And I would also think that the reduction in deflection, when hitting sharp bumps, may endanger the short sidewalled tires that these cars have (maybe the wheels, too....)

 

I agree with you in many aspects. But with these chewing gum bushings that don’t seem to last more than 50k I was looking for impressions to see if anyone that tried them, regretted it. The issue I’m having is that most of the bushings are serviceable but a few spots they don’t. So it will take a bigger beating if the opposing bushing is stiffer and we leave the other the same.

I need longevity and good tire life. I’ll compromise a little harshness of its tolerable.

 

But it's not a bushing that failed, it's the spherical bearing at the outer end. And putting poly bushings at the inner end of that arm will increase the shock load on that bearing.

 

That’s probably why they don’t service that spot, which renders the whole idea somewhat useless.