You want to loosen those bolts first and tighten them last after you have gotten everything in time. There is a slight bit of free play in those vvt units. This helps get any slack out of the chains and gives just enough room for movement to help with getting it in time. Plus I’ve found that completely removing the bolts for the bank 2 exhaust vvt and spinning it around allows you to get the chain out without prying on the tone wheel and potentially damaging it. It can only bolt up one way. When you’ve got everything timed, take a fair sized flat blade screwdriver and insert between the chain lever and tensioner. With light to moderate force, pry the lever toward the chain to tighten and listen for a slight click from each side. This is the tensioner catching the first tooth. Keep tension on the chain while tightening the vvts for each bank. After tightening, check the tension between each set of vvts. The chain should be pretty close to being as tight as a banjo string. A slight bit of movement is fine. Just don’t let it be so loose that it can be moved up and down with ease.

 

Ok I’m not replacing the chain. I just want to get the phaser sprocket that jumped in time which is the RH exhaust, fuse box side of the engine. I don’t want to create another variable for me to have to adjust and increase the possibility of wrong doing. I guess I don’t quite see how the phaser needs to be pretensioned and also timed, the cams being locked means the bolt holes stay put and the chains also are at a set position. Therefore what actually is under spring tension that needs to be pretensioned with the claw looking tool.

And if I don’t loosen, does it stay pre tensioned? Allowing me to skip that step, remember this was just going to be a tensioner and guide changeover. The RH cam jumped teeth on me. Likely from one of the exhaust valves being pushed down. The valve springs relaxed and turned the cam as the chain was became loose.
Factory set pretensions on the phaser should still be there. I know It looks like I am trying to short cut things. I am just trying to eliminate any additional work that can lead to potential additional set errors. Last thing I want is to tear into it again. I need also do a leak down to ensure valves didn’t bend from all this. Just as a precaution. Some say the engine is interference but some say the engine is not. It was the 4.2l that was. I’ve been having nightmare of bent valves for two weeks.

This is a great example of it air broke don’t fix it.

 

The timing procedure needs to be done in its entirety. These are interference engines. That’s what happened with the engine I’m working on. The chain jumped and bent the intake valves on cyl 5. If you don’t do the timing procedure then you run a great risk of being out of time. Like I stated earlier, I have timed hundreds of these engines.

As far as the claw like tool, there are 2 separate tools. That tool kit only comes with one. Hence the use of the screw driver. It does exactly the same thing just in a different spot.

And I know you weren’t planning on doing chains. I would highly recommend replacing them while you’re there though. Especially since you now have to time the engine anyway and the chains do stretch. I have had to send in several sets of chains for warranty and at least 50% of them were stretched. I believe this is due to the fact that the engine is direct injected. Pretty much every direct injection gas engine I have seen has timing chain problems. And that is multiple different brands of vehicles. You’re more than welcome to do as you see fit. I am just trying to tell you what I know.

 

Jagman, you say "Pretty much every direct injection gas engine I have seen has timing chain problems."
Can you explain why this is so? Exactly how and why does GDI effect the timing chains more/worse/different than say a port injection engine?
One theory that I am partial to is that the build up of carbon deposits and crud on the intake tracts and on the backs of the inlet valves contributes to oil sludge and that sludge eventually partly clogs the timing chain "oil squirters" and as a result on cold start up the timing chains don't get lubricated properly. But I struggle to see how carbon build up on the intake tracts and on the backs of the inlet valves gets into the oil, if it did then it wouldn't build up!
Lots of debate and discussion over on the F-Type forum about timing chain issues and how badly they and the guides and tensioners were designed so every little bit of info and knowledge helps!

 

So firstly, the 5.0 and 3.0 jlr engines are just a bad chain design. Combine that with ridiculous factory service intervals and here we are. However, it seems like the gdi engines just put more stress on the chains. I’m not sure if it’s just by design or if the combustion leans more toward detonation. Bmw/mini even has a open spec on chain stretch. I really don’t know if it’s from cheap materials, too harsh of a combustion, poor maintenance, or all of those plus some. All I know is that most MPI engines(save certain terrible designs) don’t have near the timing chain problems. And I do mean chain problems. Tensioners and guides have always been weak links depending on design. It’s just become common place in the last 10-15 years that I’ve noticed. Variable valve timing hasn’t really helped matters either. The 2.0 ecoboost ford motor that are in the jlr vehicles up to 2018 in USA have been notorious for the intake vvt rattling on startup to the point I’ve had chains ejected through the valve cover. I don’t know of a common denominator between all of them other than most are GDI.

 

Carbon particulates?

https://360.lubrizol.com/2013/ILSAC-...r-Test-To-GF-6

 

Thanks for that link, starting to make some sense now.
Quote: "Researchers are not yet sure about the exact wear mechanism - it could be abrasive wear from carbon particles suspended in the lube oil or an interaction between carbon particles and the lubricant or both."
But that article is nearly seven years old, surely by now "researchers" have figured out what is going on!
Maybe they have hence the new ILSAC GF-7 oil spec as of 1 May 2020 (which is supposed to help reduce timing chain wear) but it would be nice to know how/what/why it's a problem in GDI engines.

 

Sorry. Didn’t reference that with the lack of maintenance. It’s possible I suppose. I haven’t gone that deep to prove it. However, I would imagine that if the chains were being worn down that much by an abrasive agent, we would see more broken chains. I really don’t know for certain. These engines are bad about getting the valves caked up with carbon and when people follow factory service intervals, you get oil that’s close to diesel oil.

 

Which brings me back to a point I made a few posts ago - if the carbon is building up on the intake valves how is it then getting into the oil?
I always understood that it worked the other way around - the carbon gets into the oil via blow by past the piston rings, the PCV system and the EGR system, and the PCV and EGR are the big culprits for depositing carbon on the backs of the intake valves.
I'm guessing that some of it sticks to the intake valves (and intake tracts) and some goes back into the combustion chambers and from there into the oil.
And I change my oil every six months which in my case works out at around 3,000 miles coz like you I reckon the factory service interval of 12 months or 16,000 miles whichever comes first is farcical.
Is there anything else we can or should do to reduce timing chain wear? (short of not driving at all or driving Miss Daisy!)

 

I am posting more pics of the tensioner components on that I pulled out.

You can clearly see on this 2013 with pre revised parts that there is no alarming wear to speak of, the tensioners are able to lock in an up position don’t collapse, allowing to hold hold tensions on the next start up. The piston recess on the adjustable guide is showing no substantial wear the pocket, the casting vs contact area is hardly visible. I have the parts just prior to the steel button insert. How many revisions prior to mine? I don’t know.

History of the vehicle. The second owner bought it with 30k out of Massachusetts, had the car shipped to Florida. Where it spent 4 year and getting to 92k, the owner says he changed the oil with a fleet of other cars, at a 5-6k internal using synthetic 5w20 whatever brand. He didn’t seem to care much about bringing it to the Jaguar dealer since he had a shop for his rental car fleet. This car was his personal car. He never reset the service warning and he mostly ignored it. He drove highway mostly, intense Florida heat with AC all the time. The auto stop was not functioning and he could care less about it. So that was never a variable. The engine was never opened up when I tore it down, bolts appeared never molested, stickers and clips and tabs were intact. Once open, Aluminum parts looked silver no sludge or brown deposits were found.

That’s the car I feel this repair was premature in my part but would have never know unless I tore it down.

 

 

So were there any symptoms that led you do the repair - noise, etc.? I looked through this thread but didn't see anything.

 

Nope, just fear. And a leaking glue fused coolant pipe and a SC coupler. Figured I'd keep going, but the zip tie method backfired on me, so needed to keep going further.

Oil changes, oil changes. Is what I get out of all of this. Dirty oil will clog passages to the cam phasers and tensioners and lead to wear. And dirtier oil at the back of the valves.

 

Since you've got it all torn apart you might want to check to see if the oil return valve under the oil cooler is working. I think mine was allowing oil to drain back out of the oil filter housing. It's easy to check, just remove the filter housing cover and see if there is still oil in the housing (should be level with the middle hole). If there's none in the housing then you might want to check the valve. I don't know how serious an issue this is, if at all, but I figured it's better to have the cooler and housing full and ready to go at start up.

 

Sorry, I didn't look at the date but Queen and Country did some research on it on the XK list and that is what I found after a quick google based on what he was discussing so there is probably some more up-to-date info out there.

 

I got the tool finally from Amazon. I realized I should not have taken it out till I figure out how to get all the dirt from the cavity. That is not in any procedure, more like a common sense item if you done a few of these. But spark plugs are out and I don’t want to blow anything into the other cavity. Any tips? I stopped right three...

 

I got to doing the entire procedure and I believe things are in time. I could not use the claw tool and tightened everything after putting tension on the adjustable guide as you said. I tightened the VVT phasers that way. But I have a peculiar problem I want to pass along and get feedback, before I seal it all together. The Flywheel/Flexplate was locked using the tool that replaces the crank sensor. With that tool in place the lower yellow marks on the chain link did not perfectly lined up with the timing mark on the black guides. It’s about at the start of the link not at the exact center. If I remove the crank tool, and turn maybe 1-2 degrees I am able to line it up but the tool won’t go back in. The chain won’t go on any other way up top with the cams locked, tighter on the black guide sides with the yellow marks up top lined up on the VVT marks.

I’m scratching my head. I hope you have worked on a car with the same observation. I hope the flex plate didn’t shift? I don’t see how else to do it but to leave it misaligned at the bottom indicator. It won’t go any other way if I jump it a tooth the chain loosens up on the back guide side and that’s no good. looseness should be on the adjustable guide side.

Send it?
Help is appreciated.

 

If it’s not too much trouble, get the crank tool back in place and post a picture of the chain to guide marks. This happens to me quite frequently. Sometimes they don’t PERFECTLY line up. But if it appears to be half a tooth off, then it’s probably not in time. Just make sure your cam and crank tools are installed and post that pic of the marks. I meant to do a video of the timing procedure while I had that engine out, but it became a rush job and I wasn’t able to do so.

 

Thanks, unfortunately had already spun the engine couple of times to see if the cam looking tools could be installed this meant the yellow marks were off to the races and could never line things back up unless I took off the chains and started over. The flywheel I suspect is the newest version that might require a different tool? The crank tool would lock in place anywhere where there is no teeth protruding. But I made sure it was locking the unique one with the square hole with the key way at 6oclock. Well looking this gap I was able lock the cam again although a little harder this time to tighten the cam tool, as one of the wing nuts hits the plastic lower bulk head. With it re locked you can see in the picture that the chain link that would have stricken the lower two markets would have slightly missed the yellow mark as the stripes are dead center, but on my car the mark lands on the end of the said link. I have some comfort as to this anomaly because the LH chains was a success with the zip tie and I had the cam locked and crank locked knowing things were in time on that side of the engine. When I removed the Intake VVT Phaser to spin the chain to their respective yellow marking encountered the same observation. The RH took a little more effort because those cams both moved as the lobes are under tension since valves are open on that side of the engine. I locked the cams and mirrored the same lower yellow mark as the LH side There was no other way of doing the only other option made the chain loose on black guide side and that was not right.

im hoping for the best here as I took a lot of time making sure all possible combinations were explored. I found comfort on the timed LH side. Still with the flywheel tool in place the lower link is not centered. 1-2 deg turn will get it there. I’m burnt out front this fix I just want the car back in working condition.

Anyways

Pics but like I said the yellow marks are not lined up as I rotated the engine sever times since lining up the marks but you can see how the suspect link ends up on the lower marks.

 

Did you successfully complete the repair? I am planning to try the zip tie method next summer and I am closely following your case.