Water pump failure?
#21
That is pretty rough looking. The rattling when driving when the pump failed isn't a good sign, but on the other hand, doesn't mean the engine's toast either.
The area around that pump looks pretty rough though, it takes a bit of time leaking to look like that.
Looking at the pics, it looks like there's more to it than coolant blown out of a failed pump. I'd guess there was some sort of sealant in it that finally blew out. Considering that you've had it 7 months, is it possible that it had a "pre-existing condition" from the previous owner?
If you've got a 2011, I'm guessing that your coolant pump had been replaced once before because you have the revised bypass route, from the coolant hose to the front of the pump; I can tell from your picture that shows the short hose from your throttle body has the blanked-off barb without the bypass hose coming off of it. Mine is a 2012, and has the original config with the bypass off of that hose.
The oil you're seeing is likely just valve cover gasket leaks. my wife's XJ valve cover gaskets began leaking a little after 135k miles, and I replaced the left at 145k and right at 147k.
The area around that pump looks pretty rough though, it takes a bit of time leaking to look like that.
Looking at the pics, it looks like there's more to it than coolant blown out of a failed pump. I'd guess there was some sort of sealant in it that finally blew out. Considering that you've had it 7 months, is it possible that it had a "pre-existing condition" from the previous owner?
If you've got a 2011, I'm guessing that your coolant pump had been replaced once before because you have the revised bypass route, from the coolant hose to the front of the pump; I can tell from your picture that shows the short hose from your throttle body has the blanked-off barb without the bypass hose coming off of it. Mine is a 2012, and has the original config with the bypass off of that hose.
The oil you're seeing is likely just valve cover gasket leaks. my wife's XJ valve cover gaskets began leaking a little after 135k miles, and I replaced the left at 145k and right at 147k.
Also, the coolant is green. My old jag was the pink stuff, I intend to flush the current system and use the Dex cool once I get the current problem under control. I also found the starter fuse blown, which is why it probably didn't want to start when I went to assess the damage.
#22
I got the gaskets from Rock Auto, and since the fuel injectors have to come out, you'll need to replace the injector seals too. AND while you're in there, it may be a good time to replace the spark plugs if they haven't been replaced. The stock spec spark plugs are good for 100k miles.
It's not particularly easy to replace the valve cover gaskets, and it takes a couple special tools for pulling the injectors, re-sleeving them with new seals.
To access the cover fasteners, the fuel rails and cross-over pipe need to be removed, the fuel lines on bank 1 from the HPFPs have to be loosened-up so you can get the Bank 1 cover off, and the chassis covers on each side of the engine, and the panel that goes across the back of the engine compartment, under the wiper arms.
It takes a bit of time & effort.
Also, the coolant is green. My old jag was the pink stuff, I intend to flush the current system and use the Dex cool once I get the current problem under control. I also found the starter fuse blown, which is why it probably didn't want to start when I went to assess the damage.
The pink coolant in your old Jag is the same that you should see there.
From the looks of the stuff that flowed out of the pump leak, I'd expect that your radiator is plugged-up pretty good to since those cross channels are pretty thin. Often when any stop leak product is used, it can at least partially clog the radiator - at least the lower portion.
Last edited by 12jagmark; 01-13-2023 at 10:18 AM.
#23
Got the compression test kit today, gonna check the pressures tomorrow. Ballpark figures on this, would they be around 150psi? I know they run higher on these engines.
On a side note, if I do have to pull the engine, a Jag breaker just confirmed that the front does indeed come off and you can roll it out of the front. I'm hoping to get a few more details on anything to watch out for. Hoping it doesn't come to that.
On a side note, if I do have to pull the engine, a Jag breaker just confirmed that the front does indeed come off and you can roll it out of the front. I'm hoping to get a few more details on anything to watch out for. Hoping it doesn't come to that.
#24
#25
#27
I've been trying to find the elbow connectors but I'm only finding the whole hose assemblies at $$$. The jag breaker I'm in touch with has some that aren't as old, so may take the risk.Would obviously prefer new but I'm already looking at a hefty bill just on parts, and that's relying on the heads not being warped.
#28
Compression test done. Not good news. Bank 1 results, 215, 180, 220, 230. Bank 2 220, 165, 150, 160.
I did notice some build up on top of the valves but i would suspect that would have given running issues prior to the water pump issue.
I think it's toast. Do I chance pulling the heads and see if I can get them skimmed? or does the short block warp along with the heads?
I did notice some build up on top of the valves but i would suspect that would have given running issues prior to the water pump issue.
I think it's toast. Do I chance pulling the heads and see if I can get them skimmed? or does the short block warp along with the heads?
#29
I don't think you will find the elbows offered separately? They are all part of the assembly so afraid that yes you will need to buy the entire hose. Maybe post part numbers to see if anyone can help?
Before giving up have you put a dab of oil in each cylinder? That often improves things. I have not seen high numbers such as 230 before?
With the expense of all this I would consider putting it back together and see how it runs? I have had engines with widely varying numbers and they for sure needed to be rebuilt. But I have gotten them to run fairly well anyway.
We have not seen great luck with just skimming the heads? Yes if your selling the car that might be the way to go but several of our experienced members have stated that if the engine was cooked it distorts the block as well. So skimming the heads might not be enough. It all depends on how hot for how long the engine was run.
Do you have a good straight edge to check the block after the heads are off?
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Before giving up have you put a dab of oil in each cylinder? That often improves things. I have not seen high numbers such as 230 before?
With the expense of all this I would consider putting it back together and see how it runs? I have had engines with widely varying numbers and they for sure needed to be rebuilt. But I have gotten them to run fairly well anyway.
We have not seen great luck with just skimming the heads? Yes if your selling the car that might be the way to go but several of our experienced members have stated that if the engine was cooked it distorts the block as well. So skimming the heads might not be enough. It all depends on how hot for how long the engine was run.
Do you have a good straight edge to check the block after the heads are off?
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.
.
#30
I don't think you will find the elbows offered separately? They are all part of the assembly so afraid that yes you will need to buy the entire hose. Maybe post part numbers to see if anyone can help?
Before giving up have you put a dab of oil in each cylinder? That often improves things. I have not seen high numbers such as 230 before?
With the expense of all this I would consider putting it back together and see how it runs? I have had engines with widely varying numbers and they for sure needed to be rebuilt. But I have gotten them to run fairly well anyway.
We have not seen great luck with just skimming the heads? Yes if your selling the car that might be the way to go but several of our experienced members have stated that if the engine was cooked it distorts the block as well. So skimming the heads might not be enough. It all depends on how hot for how long the engine was run.
Do you have a good straight edge to check the block after the heads are off?
.
.
.
Before giving up have you put a dab of oil in each cylinder? That often improves things. I have not seen high numbers such as 230 before?
With the expense of all this I would consider putting it back together and see how it runs? I have had engines with widely varying numbers and they for sure needed to be rebuilt. But I have gotten them to run fairly well anyway.
We have not seen great luck with just skimming the heads? Yes if your selling the car that might be the way to go but several of our experienced members have stated that if the engine was cooked it distorts the block as well. So skimming the heads might not be enough. It all depends on how hot for how long the engine was run.
Do you have a good straight edge to check the block after the heads are off?
.
.
.
I got a quote from a breaker, used engine, less than 90k, for $3150 delivered, plus he'll throw in the hose and a few other cosmetic bits.
I may pull block 2's head this weekend, seeing that's the worst, since I'm part way there already. The good lady said it happened less than 2 miles from where she stopped, I think that may be enough though. The cylinders that measure ok, seem to be the ones around the pump and the broken pipe. maybe the leaking fluid kept them cool enough to survive, lol, Or, maybe there is a head gasket leak into the coolant channels and the extra pressure caused the pump and hose to blow out in the first place? I've seen similar before on a VW. Took out radiator, header tank and a couple of hose fittings.
With this engine, I'd have to spent a fair few bucks ($600+) on parts, tools and fluids just to put it back together and fix the leaks, Thinking get the used engine, overhaul and swap out, sell anything salvageable from the toast. If I go that route, I'll create another thread with steps and pics to help anyone else who wants to chance it. I don't have a hoist or lift at home but the breaker assures me it can be done without.
#31
1am, staring at the ceiling, had an epiphany. Maybe the pressure is so high on 4 cylinders because it's been previously skimmed? if the head was warped, it would certainly explain the differences if it was skimmed to a level finish. Just a pillow thought.
#32
Interesting comment!
We have seen at least one car where they did skim the heads more than once and he looked around and found a thicker head gasket when he put it back together.
Same sort of thoughts you have about increasing the cylinder pressure too much.
Sounds like you have a plan so looking forward to you fixing this. With all the cheap endoscopes out there have you thought of taking a look thru the spark plug holes? If it is a head gasket you should see some clean piston tops from all the coolant going thru the cylinder?
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We have seen at least one car where they did skim the heads more than once and he looked around and found a thicker head gasket when he put it back together.
Same sort of thoughts you have about increasing the cylinder pressure too much.
Sounds like you have a plan so looking forward to you fixing this. With all the cheap endoscopes out there have you thought of taking a look thru the spark plug holes? If it is a head gasket you should see some clean piston tops from all the coolant going thru the cylinder?
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apllrd (01-19-2023)
#33
Interesting comment!
We have seen at least one car where they did skim the heads more than once and he looked around and found a thicker head gasket when he put it back together.
Same sort of thoughts you have about increasing the cylinder pressure too much.
Sounds like you have a plan so looking forward to you fixing this. With all the cheap endoscopes out there have you thought of taking a look thru the spark plug holes? If it is a head gasket you should see some clean piston tops from all the coolant going thru the cylinder?
.
.
.
We have seen at least one car where they did skim the heads more than once and he looked around and found a thicker head gasket when he put it back together.
Same sort of thoughts you have about increasing the cylinder pressure too much.
Sounds like you have a plan so looking forward to you fixing this. With all the cheap endoscopes out there have you thought of taking a look thru the spark plug holes? If it is a head gasket you should see some clean piston tops from all the coolant going thru the cylinder?
.
.
.
I'm off work tomorrow, and i expedited the shipping on the parts I need apart from the hose, so I can check the cylinders and put most of it back together tomorrow. Probably remove the radiator and flush the gunk too. If all goes well, I'll get to the leaking valve cover after we get back from vacation.
#34
If/when you pull the heads, could you take note of how tight the head bolts are when you remove them? I don't imagine you have a torque meter/dial type of wrench, but if you have a torque wrench, you could roughly check them.
Just curious if you might find a bolt or two that are a little loose.
I'm hoping for the best and that you don't have to go that deep, but if you do...
Just curious if you might find a bolt or two that are a little loose.
I'm hoping for the best and that you don't have to go that deep, but if you do...
#35
If/when you pull the heads, could you take note of how tight the head bolts are when you remove them? I don't imagine you have a torque meter/dial type of wrench, but if you have a torque wrench, you could roughly check them.
Just curious if you might find a bolt or two that are a little loose.
I'm hoping for the best and that you don't have to go that deep, but if you do...
Just curious if you might find a bolt or two that are a little loose.
I'm hoping for the best and that you don't have to go that deep, but if you do...
#36
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Newport Beach, California
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In my experience with the AJ133 and AJ126 variant, none have been successfully resealed once overheated. As has been suggested, use a straightedge with a feeler gauge in at least nine places across the cylinder head(s) and block mating surfaces to check for warpage. If the head(s) or block are warped 2 mm or more, they can be machined/skimmed to be straight, however, the cam bores may also be distorted, which cannot be machined back to specifications.
If the head(s) or cylinder block are warped, it's best to find a used engine with similar miles that HAS NOT BEEN OVERHEATED as a replacement.
If the head(s) or cylinder block are warped, it's best to find a used engine with similar miles that HAS NOT BEEN OVERHEATED as a replacement.
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QP7 (01-27-2024)
#37
In my experience with the AJ133 and AJ126 variant, none have been successfully resealed once overheated. As has been suggested, use a straightedge with a feeler gauge in at least nine places across the cylinder head(s) and block mating surfaces to check for warpage. If the head(s) or block are warped 2 mm or more, they can be machined/skimmed to be straight, however, the cam bores may also be distorted, which cannot be machined back to specifications.
If the head(s) or cylinder block are warped, it's best to find a used engine with similar miles that HAS NOT BEEN OVERHEATED as a replacement.
If the head(s) or cylinder block are warped, it's best to find a used engine with similar miles that HAS NOT BEEN OVERHEATED as a replacement.
#38
That's something I'll certainly check when I pull the valve covers to replace the gaskets, if I get that far. For torque wrenches, I have a 1/2" Harbor Freight special and a 3/8 digital adapter, so not the most accurate of tools. In my day job, we count ft/lbs in ugga duggas .
Example:
Camshaft Alignment Petrol Engine Timing Tool Kit For Jaguar Land Rover (V8) 5.0L | eBay
...but then you're probably already a step ahead.
It's nice of you to report what you find & how you find it, but also keep in mind that this has happened before, and there are other forums that do give pretty good descriptions of the same experience, but mostly in Land Rover forums.
There is a post in here from Baltobernie not too long ago that gave a link to a good source or two about rebuilding the AJ133, supercharged, but otherwise the same once you get to the heads.
Last edited by 12jagmark; 01-19-2023 at 10:06 PM.
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apllrd (01-20-2023)
#39
You won't have access to the head bolts just by pulling the valve covers, since the head bolts on the AJ133 are under the camshafts. So if you do have to pull the heads, the camshafts have to come off in the process. With that in mind, make sure that the specific tools for camshaft timing are included in the list that you ordered. Of course that's in addition to the tools to pull the injectors & install new seals on the injectors, etc...
Example:
Camshaft Alignment Petrol Engine Timing Tool Kit For Jaguar Land Rover (V8) 5.0L | eBay
...but then you're probably already a step ahead.
It's nice of you to report what you find & how you find it, but also keep in mind that this has happened before, and there are other forums that do give pretty good descriptions of the same experience, but mostly in Land Rover forums.
There is a post in here from Baltobernie not too long ago that gave a link to a good source or two about rebuilding the AJ133, supercharged, but otherwise the same once you get to the heads.
Example:
Camshaft Alignment Petrol Engine Timing Tool Kit For Jaguar Land Rover (V8) 5.0L | eBay
...but then you're probably already a step ahead.
It's nice of you to report what you find & how you find it, but also keep in mind that this has happened before, and there are other forums that do give pretty good descriptions of the same experience, but mostly in Land Rover forums.
There is a post in here from Baltobernie not too long ago that gave a link to a good source or two about rebuilding the AJ133, supercharged, but otherwise the same once you get to the heads.
#40
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Newport Beach, California
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There are special tools needed for disassembly of the AJ133:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/19535911677...3ABFBM5pCgiLph
and
https://www.ebay.com/itm/26567788467...3ABFBM5pCgiLph
https://www.ebay.com/itm/19535911677...3ABFBM5pCgiLph
and
https://www.ebay.com/itm/26567788467...3ABFBM5pCgiLph
The following users liked this post:
apllrd (01-20-2023)