What would you change in your xj?
#21
10-07-2012, 07:05 PM
Thanks Albert, and you too.
I just realized that I've very rarely comparison shopped for a car, and therefore haven't looked for the perfect mix of attributes. I've usually been drawn to a particular model of car for whatever reason, researched it carefully, and only then gone to look at one. I've been completely sold long before sliding in behind the wheel, and the test drive was merely a formality. It would take a massive deficiency to put me off, like the horrible ergonomics of the Ferrari 348 did, and I've loved every car purchased that way relentlessly.
My recommendation from those cars for incredible ride quality and style would be the '66 Thunderbird Town Landau with 390 cu. in. V8, aircraft inspired dash design, rear wheel skirts, slide away steering wheel, curved back seat with no side windows, and sequential turn signals! Last of the classic T-Birds, amazing ride quality, perfect stance with no need for lowering or wheel spacers, and it would spin the tires a 50 mph just like my XKR! It's been 31 years since I sold mine, but I'd buy one again in a heartbeat if I saw a real good one.
Waaay off topic...but I notice there aren't many suggestions for changes to the XJ. That's a good sign!
Bruce
My recommendation from those cars for incredible ride quality and style would be the '66 Thunderbird Town Landau with 390 cu. in. V8, aircraft inspired dash design, rear wheel skirts, slide away steering wheel, curved back seat with no side windows, and sequential turn signals! Last of the classic T-Birds, amazing ride quality, perfect stance with no need for lowering or wheel spacers, and it would spin the tires a 50 mph just like my XKR! It's been 31 years since I sold mine, but I'd buy one again in a heartbeat if I saw a real good one.
Waaay off topic...but I notice there aren't many suggestions for changes to the XJ. That's a good sign!
Bruce
Last edited by Bruce H.; 10-07-2012 at 07:16 PM.
#22
10-08-2012, 10:44 AM
Veteran Member
wow, i cant believe in this whole thread no one talked about anything other than the ride and the tires.
I think out of all things, those are the least of my (atleast for me) worries. my G has 19's with a stiff suspension, so i guess im used to harsh, and the XJ feels better to me.
but things i would change for the XJ:
- make the sunroof close COMPLETELY with 1 press of the button, not 2
- make the HD rip as many songs as it can hold....not limited to only 10 cds
- allow the seat to move as WELL as the steering wheel on exit (older cars did that)
- FASTER FASTER FASTER responses on the main computer.
I think out of all things, those are the least of my (atleast for me) worries. my G has 19's with a stiff suspension, so i guess im used to harsh, and the XJ feels better to me.
but things i would change for the XJ:
- make the sunroof close COMPLETELY with 1 press of the button, not 2
- make the HD rip as many songs as it can hold....not limited to only 10 cds
- allow the seat to move as WELL as the steering wheel on exit (older cars did that)
- FASTER FASTER FASTER responses on the main computer.
#23
10-10-2012, 12:55 PM
Albert,
in regards to ride comfort I couldn't agree more with you. Coming out of a rough CLS63 with extreme low profile tires, I was ready for comfort. I know that customers demand that "cool" low profile tire look and that what sells out of the show room. The look sells more than the test drive. I cut mine too short, too.
Would I buy the car again? Absolutely yes. Do I want a smoother ride, YES PLEASE. Even some visitors from Germany commented on the "loud and rough" tire noise. And they are more accustomed to "sporty" rides than US customers used to "cushy towncar" style rides.
Albert, just like you I want to make it work better. So I did some tire/wheel combo research to go to a 18" wheel. I would welcome your thoughts. Here is what I found.
Based on stock tire/wheel outer tire diameter is 704 mm front and 700.5 mm rear.
Options would be:
245/45ZR18 front, total diameter would be 245x0.45=110.25+110.25+457.20=677.7
275/40ZR18 rear, total diameter would be 275x0.4=110+110+457.20=677.20
That would mean overall diameter is about 1" less. Not sure what impact that would have.
Other option is
235/50ZR18 front, total diameter would be 235x0.5=117.5+117.5+457.2=692.2
255/45ZR18 rear, total diameter would be 255x0.45=114.75+114.75+457.2=686.70
Since I'd like to stick with a similar overall tire diameter to stock I would like a 235/50ZR18 on front and a 255/50ZR18 on rear. Problem is, I haven't found a 255/50 as it seems most 50 ratios go only up to 235. I'll keep searching though.
in regards to ride comfort I couldn't agree more with you. Coming out of a rough CLS63 with extreme low profile tires, I was ready for comfort. I know that customers demand that "cool" low profile tire look and that what sells out of the show room. The look sells more than the test drive. I cut mine too short, too.
Would I buy the car again? Absolutely yes. Do I want a smoother ride, YES PLEASE. Even some visitors from Germany commented on the "loud and rough" tire noise. And they are more accustomed to "sporty" rides than US customers used to "cushy towncar" style rides.
Albert, just like you I want to make it work better. So I did some tire/wheel combo research to go to a 18" wheel. I would welcome your thoughts. Here is what I found.
Based on stock tire/wheel outer tire diameter is 704 mm front and 700.5 mm rear.
Options would be:
245/45ZR18 front, total diameter would be 245x0.45=110.25+110.25+457.20=677.7
275/40ZR18 rear, total diameter would be 275x0.4=110+110+457.20=677.20
That would mean overall diameter is about 1" less. Not sure what impact that would have.
Other option is
235/50ZR18 front, total diameter would be 235x0.5=117.5+117.5+457.2=692.2
255/45ZR18 rear, total diameter would be 255x0.45=114.75+114.75+457.2=686.70
Since I'd like to stick with a similar overall tire diameter to stock I would like a 235/50ZR18 on front and a 255/50ZR18 on rear. Problem is, I haven't found a 255/50 as it seems most 50 ratios go only up to 235. I'll keep searching though.
#24
10-10-2012, 05:20 PM
Veteran Member
Those German friends of you are likely put off by the rough ride as they are not used to it. The Jag would likely ride well on their glass-smooth Autobahn surfaces. Not sure if you ever spent time in Germany and watch their Autobahn construction and repair methods but, the resulting surfaces are far superior to America's rippled and broken roads built with cheap surface methods. Of course, the German roads are much more expensive, offset by the fact that America's freeway networks are FAR more extensive, thus, the same construction could probably bankrupt us.
It is, indeed, a shame that wheels are becoming a like/dislike, fashion-like issue. What some people do not seem to realize that, with this particular issue, it IS possible to have your cake and eat it too. Have a fantastic handling AND good tire compliance. We had it before this silly trend to low profile tires spread. If those folks would have it, soon we could be driving on 25" solid wheels and get rid of all that unsightly tire-look. What a nice ride that would be... :-).
I discuss the rest on the other thread that you started about wheels/tires.
Albert
It is, indeed, a shame that wheels are becoming a like/dislike, fashion-like issue. What some people do not seem to realize that, with this particular issue, it IS possible to have your cake and eat it too. Have a fantastic handling AND good tire compliance. We had it before this silly trend to low profile tires spread. If those folks would have it, soon we could be driving on 25" solid wheels and get rid of all that unsightly tire-look. What a nice ride that would be... :-).
I discuss the rest on the other thread that you started about wheels/tires.
Albert
#25
10-11-2012, 10:55 AM
Please allow me to counter some of your claims. Worth mentioning that I had raced cars for about 25 years in many categories, including autocrossing stock cars and track racing stock, modified stock, full blown racing GT and open wheeled formula cars. Won countless races and won 5 season championships in various classes. I did nearly all chassis, engine and suspension and body constructions and engineering on my race cars.
You suggested that short sidewalls greatly effected handling. True but, not necessarily in a positive direction. Certainly, if you drive on glass smooth surfaces, the short sidewall will provide crisper transitions and, depending on the suspension geometry, a flatly planted tire surface. The problem, however, is that real life roads and curves tend to come with uneven surfaces. If you have a suspension that is too stiff, you hit some surface irregularities under hard cornering and it will cause a sharp jolt on the wheel, sending the wheel up or down, changing the weight distribution on that wheel. At max cornering that could be enough to send you flying off the corner into the weeds. Since tire sidewalls are designed to absorb such irregularities, minimizing weight transfer, an overly stiff tire sidewall could be very dangerous. With these tires you are forced to rely on the springs and the dampers to do the job that was previously shared by the sidewall flexing.
Also, to respond to your suggestion, no half-way decent driver would crash in driving an economy car fast and hard. Proof of point; years ago I rented a Russian-made Lada in Austria. It was loaded with myself, my wife and a heavy friend. The Ladas were reputed to have had awful tires. Everyone hated them. Yet, when I raced a special high performance BMW Alpina in the steep downhill twisties, coming off of the Alpen peak of Grossglockner (spelling?), I was not only able to keep up with the much superior car but, actually passed him under braking. No crashing despite the substandard car/tires and neck breaking downhill speeds. Sure, I would have been able to go even faster in a decent car but, just pointing out that a cheap car will not necessarily crash when driven hard properly. Heck, my friends who rode with me in the Sierras decades ago in my slightly modified Toyota Corolla could tell you how many Porsches we blew away in that little economy cars in the tight twisties, often with multiple passengers and multiple 40 lbs+ white-water kayaks on the roof racks to help with the center of gravity :-).
In my decades of racing and fast street driving I have NEVER seen a tire come off a wheel due to heavy cornering, not even on cheap economy cars. A tire that is inflated anywhere close to its suggested levels, on undamaged rims, will slide far before developing enough lateral forces to tear it off a rim. Just does not happen. I have raced street-tired cars going far faster than any street driving could produce and never had any indications of a tire coming loose. To show you an example; my GT-2 race car used 13" rims and sidewalls so tall that it makes the Jags sidewall look like thin rubber strips in comparison. My cold tire pressures were 14 psi as opposed to a typical street tire pressure of 30+ psi. The tire had thinner, far more flexing sidewalls than our Jag tires, weighting a fraction of the street tire. Still, never a tire separation from the rims while cornering far in excess of 1 G.
As to how much difference in handling? I have had 3 Jags now in a row; a '05XK on 18" wheels, and '08XK on 19" wheels and the present XJL on 19" wheels. My 1984, championship winning Mustang was running on 16" wheels/street tires and produced handling that was far superior to any of my late Jags. My next street/race car was (still have it) a 1993 modified, 500 HP, 2600lbs Twin Turbo RX-7 which on its 16" wheels and 50 series stock tires produced handling that even exceeded my modified Mustang. Nothing could touch it on the track in the modified stock categories. The Jags, particularly the XKs, would not even be in the same handling class, despite their much lower sidewalls. BTW; of all the listed Jags, my new XJL has, by far, the best handling, meaning, best steering and most neutral cornering.
So, my XJL is new, only 1800 miles on it. Now, it may be that something is wrong with my suspension that causes the harsh ride. So far, all look fine. But, reading the magazine reviews, as well as picking up on the factory news of a coming softer 2013 suspension, I'm confident that the XJL suspension is far too stiff, period.
I'm glad if you guys find the ride to be good. I personally feel that a luxury sedan should primarily focus on a luxurious ride, and secondarily on race car handling. As one XJ reviewer pointed out: "You will not impress your friends with the ride quality of the 2011 XJ". Yes, that is exactly how I feel. The car rides beautifully at city speeds, nice and stately. But, not at highway speeds, around 70 MPH. Way too busy, too much distracting sensory inputs from the road surface texture.
Finally, worth saying that as an old race car driver I appreciate a good handling car as much as anyone would. Thus, I do not want it to wallow and buck like and old Lincoln or Cadillac in order to get that silky ride. We could have both qualities, handling and silky ride, back in the times of the 15 or 16" wheels; just go and drive an older 7-series BMW in good condition. You will know what you are missing with these short sidewalls.
Albert
You suggested that short sidewalls greatly effected handling. True but, not necessarily in a positive direction. Certainly, if you drive on glass smooth surfaces, the short sidewall will provide crisper transitions and, depending on the suspension geometry, a flatly planted tire surface. The problem, however, is that real life roads and curves tend to come with uneven surfaces. If you have a suspension that is too stiff, you hit some surface irregularities under hard cornering and it will cause a sharp jolt on the wheel, sending the wheel up or down, changing the weight distribution on that wheel. At max cornering that could be enough to send you flying off the corner into the weeds. Since tire sidewalls are designed to absorb such irregularities, minimizing weight transfer, an overly stiff tire sidewall could be very dangerous. With these tires you are forced to rely on the springs and the dampers to do the job that was previously shared by the sidewall flexing.
Also, to respond to your suggestion, no half-way decent driver would crash in driving an economy car fast and hard. Proof of point; years ago I rented a Russian-made Lada in Austria. It was loaded with myself, my wife and a heavy friend. The Ladas were reputed to have had awful tires. Everyone hated them. Yet, when I raced a special high performance BMW Alpina in the steep downhill twisties, coming off of the Alpen peak of Grossglockner (spelling?), I was not only able to keep up with the much superior car but, actually passed him under braking. No crashing despite the substandard car/tires and neck breaking downhill speeds. Sure, I would have been able to go even faster in a decent car but, just pointing out that a cheap car will not necessarily crash when driven hard properly. Heck, my friends who rode with me in the Sierras decades ago in my slightly modified Toyota Corolla could tell you how many Porsches we blew away in that little economy cars in the tight twisties, often with multiple passengers and multiple 40 lbs+ white-water kayaks on the roof racks to help with the center of gravity :-).
In my decades of racing and fast street driving I have NEVER seen a tire come off a wheel due to heavy cornering, not even on cheap economy cars. A tire that is inflated anywhere close to its suggested levels, on undamaged rims, will slide far before developing enough lateral forces to tear it off a rim. Just does not happen. I have raced street-tired cars going far faster than any street driving could produce and never had any indications of a tire coming loose. To show you an example; my GT-2 race car used 13" rims and sidewalls so tall that it makes the Jags sidewall look like thin rubber strips in comparison. My cold tire pressures were 14 psi as opposed to a typical street tire pressure of 30+ psi. The tire had thinner, far more flexing sidewalls than our Jag tires, weighting a fraction of the street tire. Still, never a tire separation from the rims while cornering far in excess of 1 G.
As to how much difference in handling? I have had 3 Jags now in a row; a '05XK on 18" wheels, and '08XK on 19" wheels and the present XJL on 19" wheels. My 1984, championship winning Mustang was running on 16" wheels/street tires and produced handling that was far superior to any of my late Jags. My next street/race car was (still have it) a 1993 modified, 500 HP, 2600lbs Twin Turbo RX-7 which on its 16" wheels and 50 series stock tires produced handling that even exceeded my modified Mustang. Nothing could touch it on the track in the modified stock categories. The Jags, particularly the XKs, would not even be in the same handling class, despite their much lower sidewalls. BTW; of all the listed Jags, my new XJL has, by far, the best handling, meaning, best steering and most neutral cornering.
So, my XJL is new, only 1800 miles on it. Now, it may be that something is wrong with my suspension that causes the harsh ride. So far, all look fine. But, reading the magazine reviews, as well as picking up on the factory news of a coming softer 2013 suspension, I'm confident that the XJL suspension is far too stiff, period.
I'm glad if you guys find the ride to be good. I personally feel that a luxury sedan should primarily focus on a luxurious ride, and secondarily on race car handling. As one XJ reviewer pointed out: "You will not impress your friends with the ride quality of the 2011 XJ". Yes, that is exactly how I feel. The car rides beautifully at city speeds, nice and stately. But, not at highway speeds, around 70 MPH. Way too busy, too much distracting sensory inputs from the road surface texture.
Finally, worth saying that as an old race car driver I appreciate a good handling car as much as anyone would. Thus, I do not want it to wallow and buck like and old Lincoln or Cadillac in order to get that silky ride. We could have both qualities, handling and silky ride, back in the times of the 15 or 16" wheels; just go and drive an older 7-series BMW in good condition. You will know what you are missing with these short sidewalls.
Albert
Tell you what, I had '80s and '90s Mercedes 280E, BMW 733i, BMW735i, BMW750i (yes the 12) and even the original M3. Yes the first one. Now check the tires on those. I believe most of them had been standing on 14" and 15" wheels at the most.
And guess what, driving them hard over the serpentine mountain roads was still accomplished with nearly perfect handling, even on the old 7 series BMW, the first sedans sold I would consider sport sedans.
Heck, my 750i was driving like on tracks, handling fairly crisp, never loosing control on those "rubbery" 15" wheels. Guess what; it was sitting on 225/60ZR15. Can you even imagine a 60 ratio sidewall today? That was 135mm (5-5/16") of rubber between rim and road. Today we are looking at 96mm (3-11/16").
Or take a 1988 BMW M5. The "grandfather" of sport sedans. Best handling car of its time. Outperforming some pure bread sports cars like Porsche of its time. To this day one of the best handling cars and it was sitting on.....225/50VR16.
Guess what? If I can push a 750i hard through Alpine mountain roads, cornering safe and precisely on over 5" high rubber sidewalls, I sure could safely push a 2011 XJ L SC over comparably straight North American Roads, with the lower weight, and all the improved suspension technology without worrying about a thing on higher sidewalls. And yes, we still had been able to get top notch brakes into those wheels. Don't forget we had been pushing over 300hp back than and I myself had the questionable pleasure of emergency braking hard to full stop at 155 mph coming around a bend on the Autobahn. (It was the A95 Muenchen - Garmisch) for the ones who know what I am talking about. Brakes didn't even fade out on me. Check on YouTube and you'll see what some of us did with these old BMW on fat tires on the autobahn. 155mp/h, safe and SMOOTH. Didn't have to worry blowing a rim and tire by driving over a peanut. That would be disastrous and deadly at those speeds.
My point is...its more a fashion thing than anything else.
Last edited by gears; 10-11-2012 at 11:09 AM.
#26
10-11-2012, 11:16 AM
Those German friends of you are likely put off by the rough ride as they are not used to it. The Jag would likely ride well on their glass-smooth Autobahn surfaces. Not sure if you ever spent time in Germany and watch their Autobahn construction and repair methods but, the resulting surfaces are far superior to America's rippled and broken roads built with cheap surface methods. Of course, the German roads are much more expensive, offset by the fact that America's freeway networks are FAR more extensive, thus, the same construction could probably bankrupt us.
It is, indeed, a shame that wheels are becoming a like/dislike, fashion-like issue. What some people do not seem to realize that, with this particular issue, it IS possible to have your cake and eat it too. Have a fantastic handling AND good tire compliance. We had it before this silly trend to low profile tires spread. If those folks would have it, soon we could be driving on 25" solid wheels and get rid of all that unsightly tire-look. What a nice ride that would be... :-).
I discuss the rest on the other thread that you started about wheels/tires.
Albert
It is, indeed, a shame that wheels are becoming a like/dislike, fashion-like issue. What some people do not seem to realize that, with this particular issue, it IS possible to have your cake and eat it too. Have a fantastic handling AND good tire compliance. We had it before this silly trend to low profile tires spread. If those folks would have it, soon we could be driving on 25" solid wheels and get rid of all that unsightly tire-look. What a nice ride that would be... :-).
I discuss the rest on the other thread that you started about wheels/tires.
Albert
Last edited by gears; 10-11-2012 at 11:20 AM.
#27
10-11-2012, 07:15 PM
Veteran Member
Check on YouTube and you'll see what some of us did with these old BMW on fat tires on the autobahn. 155mp/h, safe and SMOOTH. Didn't have to worry blowing a rim and tire by driving over a peanut. That would be disastrous and deadly at those speeds.
My point is...its more a fashion thing than anything else.
My point is...its more a fashion thing than anything else.
You are spot on with all of your comments and observations. I'm also old enough to remember that we could have superb handling, high power and great ride, all in one car.
The fastest I'd driven on the Autobahn was 150 MPH when in Munich we rented an Opel Senator, oh, probably at least 15 years ago. The stated and proven top speed of the car was 240 Km/hr (150 MPH). I had it there for days driving and feeling like a kid in a candy store. Your emergency breaking situation reminded me that, one day we were south of Munich, going into a slight blind turn at top speed and noticed some orange sign on the right shoulder but, I do not speak or read German. So, I ignored it. To my utter surprise in the middle of the long turn was a highway repair truck parked in my lane, doing some work. No cones or any other American style warnings. I never had a chance to stop, simply swerved into the slow lane at 150MPH and got away with it. Stunned, I asked my wife if she saw any warning? She confirmed the orange sign with German language warnings :-). To this day I can not fathom how they could park a truck in the fast lane without more obvious warnings.
Fun being able to go that fast and not having to worry about breaking the law. For those speeds in my state and county one would be charged with extremely serious CRIMINAL violations. I know that because my good friend, who is a Sheriff here, warned me following one of our rather wild drives over the local roads.
Albert
Last edited by axr6; 10-11-2012 at 07:17 PM.
#28
10-12-2012, 08:01 AM
Senior Member
I've been following this discussion. I have a rather curious perspective. I bought my XJL SS because of its ride comfort! The other car I tested was a BMW F10 M5, which may well have had the wheels directly attached to the chassis. It was so bad that after 10hrs on the test drive I wanted to hand it back.
I can really think of nothing wrong with my XJ. It's a bit too keen to switch the headlights on when they're set to "auto", and the steering-wheel-mounted volume control is too slow. But otherwise, I love it.
I can really think of nothing wrong with my XJ. It's a bit too keen to switch the headlights on when they're set to "auto", and the steering-wheel-mounted volume control is too slow. But otherwise, I love it.
#29
10-12-2012, 12:11 PM
I had 3 LADAs in my days. At 18 years old i bought My first LADA model name "vaz2106". At 20 I bought LADA "vaz2108". When I was 23 I bought LADA "vaz2109". I lived in the city where they were making them. Fun cars but I am glad I do not have to drive them any more. My jaguar and Miami fits me just fine
#30
10-15-2012, 05:38 PM
I think the ride is just fine. I had a 7-series sports package, which rode considerably harsher than the XJL SC. My wife's Audi A7 with 20" wheel also rides considerably harsher over the same bumpy LA street that I drive everyday. When compared with a smaller and lighter A7, the XJL SC's ride over bumpy city street feels considerably more dampened.
I like almost everything about the XJ. If I were to enhance the car I would have brighter LED headlights, a little more aggressive trunk/tail styling, and less chrome on the interior center console. There is so much reflection off of the chrome during a sunny day I often have to put my hand over the ashtray cover to prevent from being blinded by the reflection. The 20" wheels look to pretty and not aggressive enough for a SC and they are a bear to clean between the spokes.
I like almost everything about the XJ. If I were to enhance the car I would have brighter LED headlights, a little more aggressive trunk/tail styling, and less chrome on the interior center console. There is so much reflection off of the chrome during a sunny day I often have to put my hand over the ashtray cover to prevent from being blinded by the reflection. The 20" wheels look to pretty and not aggressive enough for a SC and they are a bear to clean between the spokes.
Last edited by Holein1; 10-16-2012 at 09:34 AM.
#31
10-15-2012, 07:52 PM
Veteran Member
I think the ride is just fine. I had a 7-series sports package, which rode considerably harsher than the XJL SC. My wife's Audi A7 with 20" wheel also rides considerably harsher over the same bumpy LA street that I drive everyday. When compared with a smaller and lighter A7, the XJL SC's ride over bumpy city street feels considerably more dampened.
.
.
BTW - that is exactly what I've been saying; all cars with ultra low profile tires ride like crap, only some rides like lesser-crap than others. It really does not make me feel good that some BMWs or Audis ride worse than my car. What makes me feel BAD is that a Hyundai Sonata with its taller sidewall tires rides far smoother on the freeways than my top-brand luxury sedan. I wonder how accepting you guys would be if you had to drive in that car for 3 hours every time and feel every darn ripple and minor crack in the pavement. It gets OLD after couple of hours.
A luxury car should have a quiet, smooth ride, pampering you inside its luxurious surrounding! At least, in the past, that is what we considered a luxury sedan. Leave the ultra-stiff suspensions for the canyon racers, which the XJL is certainly not and never will be.
Albert
#32
10-15-2012, 11:58 PM
Television commercials promote performance for high end cars, and fuel economy or safety for everything else. Even Consumer Reports testers drift like Jeremy Clarkson. Horsepower rules and is used to define high-end luxury cars, and are at record levels despite record fuel prices. Buyers of high-end cars are more and more moving up from performance cars, not old Lincolns, Caddies and Buicks, and they don't want to drive the sedate type of car their fathers did. Mature buyers (Boomers) reject that they are getting older, and they're fighting tooth and nail to ensure they don't appear or feel that way. They want what the industry says is desireable and youthful in the luxury segment... and that's a powerful and stylish design that has competitive road test, skidpad and slalom specs...and complete with flashy large wheels and low profile tires.
I say blame all those damn wealthy Baby Boomers...they're still listening to Classic Rock, and still hooked on car performance that they first embraced in their youth and just won't let go of. And if they want to carve some canyons they expect to do it in their sports car or luxury sedan.
Bruce
.
#33
10-16-2012, 12:30 AM
Veteran Member
And for 99+ percent of them, if they ever tried to drive it at 10/10ths ... they would no longer be alive.
#34
10-16-2012, 07:52 AM
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As a longtime owner (126,000 miles) of a 2001 XJR with the R Performance package that fitted 18" BBS wheels along with Brembo brakes, I have tried several different tires.
Pirelli P Zero (OEM), harsh and short lived, but great handling, harsh ride at 70mph attributed to tread pattern.
Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole Position, harsh ride, even worse mileage than Pirelli, smooth at highway speeds.
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus, great ride at all speeds and double the Pirelli mileage, smooth at all speeds and stays quiet as they have worn down and only slightly less performance at 10/10ths.
So to sum it up I highly suggest that you try to get Jaguar to replace your Pirelli’s with the Michelins or make it your next set of tires. Just my 2 cents.
PS I should be taking delivery of my 2013 XJ SuperSport with the Speed Package this week!!!!
Pirelli P Zero (OEM), harsh and short lived, but great handling, harsh ride at 70mph attributed to tread pattern.
Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole Position, harsh ride, even worse mileage than Pirelli, smooth at highway speeds.
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus, great ride at all speeds and double the Pirelli mileage, smooth at all speeds and stays quiet as they have worn down and only slightly less performance at 10/10ths.
So to sum it up I highly suggest that you try to get Jaguar to replace your Pirelli’s with the Michelins or make it your next set of tires. Just my 2 cents.
PS I should be taking delivery of my 2013 XJ SuperSport with the Speed Package this week!!!!
Last edited by XJsss; 10-16-2012 at 07:53 AM. Reason: Typos
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#35
10-16-2012, 09:40 AM
BTW - that is exactly what I've been saying; all cars with ultra low profile tires ride like crap, only some rides like lesser-crap than others.
A luxury car should have a quiet, smooth ride, pampering you inside its luxurious surrounding! At least, in the past, that is what we considered a luxury sedan. Leave the ultra-stiff suspensions for the canyon racers, which the XJL is certainly not and never will be.
Albert
A luxury car should have a quiet, smooth ride, pampering you inside its luxurious surrounding! At least, in the past, that is what we considered a luxury sedan. Leave the ultra-stiff suspensions for the canyon racers, which the XJL is certainly not and never will be.
Albert
#36
10-16-2012, 12:30 PM
Veteran Member
Sounds like you got the wrong car. You should trade it in for a Lexus LS and put 18 inch wheels on them. Perhap a Rose or Bentley would suit your preference better. Don't get Bentley Continental GT; you will hate it even more. Or you can always get an old Fleetwood. I think you will be much less grumpy during your commute.
Fleetwood?... as in an old boat-like Cadillac? What a poor suggestion, likely coming out of someone who has no idea what is possible in automotive design. We should not be restricted to choices between a floating barge and a uncomfortably stiff handling sport sedan. Cars, that could deliver great ride and super handling had been around for decades before this stupid fashion trend to low profile tires.
And, no, I do not care the least for the genetic look of Lexus. It is a shame if one has to go to an economy car these days to get the higher profile tires and the good ride that goes with them.
Albert
#37
10-16-2012, 01:52 PM
Veteran Member
It seems that is an out-dated concept, with smooth ride quality being replaced by agile and competent handling...
...Mature buyers (Boomers) reject that they are getting older, and they're fighting tooth and nail to ensure they don't appear or feel that way. They want what the industry says is desireable and youthful in the luxury segment... and that's a powerful and stylish design that has competitive road test, skidpad and slalom specs...and complete with flashy large wheels and low profile tires.
Bruce
.
...Mature buyers (Boomers) reject that they are getting older, and they're fighting tooth and nail to ensure they don't appear or feel that way. They want what the industry says is desireable and youthful in the luxury segment... and that's a powerful and stylish design that has competitive road test, skidpad and slalom specs...and complete with flashy large wheels and low profile tires.
Bruce
.
I'd say you got this correct again: "...they want what the industry says is desirable...". Quite well describes the present trend to big wheels and low profile tires. Just wonder where this one will end? When no tire left, only the huge wheels? I guess those Baby Boomers just going to eat up that looks and handling too.
Albert
Last edited by axr6; 10-16-2012 at 02:07 PM.
#38
10-16-2012, 04:15 PM
My LS-460 came with 18" wheels stock. I didn't change them. Original tires were 235 and I swapped them for 245s. The ride is superb, but it can really make you sleep on road trips. There is a far, far away road noise that works as white noise and indeed makes the passengers very sleepy. I always crank up the sound system on trips, so I don't sleep. I think these two cars are very different - one is super tomb quiet and smooth as glass, the other is not as quiet and has a firmer ride. Comparing both inside, the LS-460 has more space for the legs side to side, but I think the XJ has way more style.
#39
10-17-2012, 09:54 AM
Fleetwood?... as in an old boat-like Cadillac? What a poor suggestion, likely coming out of someone who has no idea what is possible in automotive design. We should not be restricted to choices between a floating barge and a uncomfortably stiff handling sport sedan. Cars, that could deliver great ride and super handling had been around for decades before this stupid fashion trend to low profile tires.
And, no, I do not care the least for the genetic look of Lexus. It is a shame if one has to go to an economy car these days to get the higher profile tires and the good ride that goes with them.
Albert
And, no, I do not care the least for the genetic look of Lexus. It is a shame if one has to go to an economy car these days to get the higher profile tires and the good ride that goes with them.
Albert
If you like high profile tires so much you should go get some 18" wheels and put those 60 tires on your car and quit attacking everyone has a contrary opinion. And stop pontificating as if you are the only one who knows what he's talking about. Give it a rest!
#40
10-17-2012, 11:49 AM
Veteran Member
Gee. Sounds like someone needs to get the wedgie out of his butt crack and take a chill pill. I think someone like dear Albert would find something to complain about no matter what car he gets.
If you like high profile tires so much you should go get some 18" wheels and put those 60 tires on your car and quit attacking everyone has a contrary opinion. And stop pontificating as if you are the only one who knows what he's talking about. Give it a rest!
If you like high profile tires so much you should go get some 18" wheels and put those 60 tires on your car and quit attacking everyone has a contrary opinion. And stop pontificating as if you are the only one who knows what he's talking about. Give it a rest!
On the ride issue, I had my wife in my XJL yesterday for an extended drive, the first time since I got the car. She had no idea that I've been making an issue about the ride. So, during the drive, just to check if I was overly critical, I casually asked her opinions on the ride. Her responses were: "bumpy", "noisy" and, "I would not expect this from a car, like this". BTW - my wife normally would hardly notice if a wheel had fallen off a car....
Also, you should have noticed that I was NOT the only one on this forum who took issue with the ride while liked just about all else in the car. There is a separate thread started by someone about the ride issues.
Albert