Also, back in may, I got a quote from Nalley Jaguar for $714 ... These things must've just skyrocketed price-wise. I'm not seeing prices anywhere for anywhere NEAR what I had paid.

 

John

I do appreciate you putting in the time to research my profile. I completely forgot that I even had one. Yes, I did own an '05 XK at the time of creating the profile - a long time back. It was a terrible handling car that even a professional tester compared to "like a 1970s large American cruiser". Then, I moved on to a '08 XK which had much improved handling but, still sloppy. So, so much for trusting the Jaguar suspension people. Why I purchased cars with bad handling? For their visual appeal and for my particular needs at the time which involved mostly straight line freeway driving.

Then, moving on to the present; we purchased two new 2012 Jaguars, and XJL for me and an XF for my wife. Interestingly, the cars are so much alike, same engine/transmission, suspension, electronics, etc. Both handle much better than either of my XKs but, if I had to pick one, the XF takes the price. It is just definitely more agile and feels quicker around the bends than the limousine-sized XJL. No surprises there.

As to my qualifications when it comes to suspension and car setup; I won tons of track races in various race cars and 4 yearly Championships while I did nearly all engine/chassis/suspension work/setup on my cars. Yes, I am also an Engineer.

Having said that, I do not think very highly of the Jaguar suspension team. Their flagship GT car (XKR) always finished near the bottom of the list with lap times on the tracks when compared to similar cars. Jaguar seems to dumb down their car setup for the novice driver at the expense of precision handling.

Our XF is the only Jaguar, thus far, that I am very happy with, both with the looks and the handling. Not perfect but, then, no car is. When it comes to my XJL I have been in contact with Jaguar trying to address a bad ride issue that may or may not be typical for the XJs out there. Lot of people that I hear-from praise the ride while now I have an extensive list of posts and articles from both average users and professional testers that find the ride harsh, jiggly and vibrating. So, safe to say that, at the least, an established portion of the XJs out there have ride issues. That fact was acknowledged by the dealer at my 4th visit when they declared the ride of my car "abnormal". Also, the Jaguar customer service person stated to me over the phone that the ride issue was common. Still no progress towards any solution as, yet. I'll be sure to post when something changes.

So, back to my recommendations; yes, the XJL handle quite well for a huge limousine. I do not expect race-car-like handling from it, so it is fine. But, since you asked, if I could have my pick I would install a much larger rear bar to balance the car better. I am certain that if I placed you in a car with a .75" rear bar, replacing the .55" stock, you'd be amazed at the transformation while would not even pick up on any ride-quality change issues.

Most manufacturers resort to setting up their street cars with customer safety in priority. That means, they make the car "understeer", a trait that will save a novice driver from spinning out if he/she foolishly entered a corner too fast. What I, and many others, have found that I can rebalance the car with a much larger rear sway bar that still provides a fair degree of safety while, at the same time, improves steering response, body lean and general handling.

I no longer race (retired from racing) and no longer drive those bonzai canyon races that I used to. When I did, I used to set up my cars that were the envy of all, nearly unbeatable anywhere by anything. Once a professional NASCAR racer literally begged me to become his suspension crew-chief after driving one of my modified street cars. (answer was: NO) So, I do know that I could improve on the XJL but, will not do so particularly for two reasons; 1) aftermaket parts on the XJL are almost non-existent due to low demand from Jaguar drivers, 2) it is a car half-way through the 3-yrs. lease so, changing the suspension would be throwing money away.

Now, thanks to your diligence, if I remember I must update my profile to something closer to the new millenium... (done)

Enjoy your car and I sincerely hope that you do not have the same ride issues that some of us are having.

Albert

 

Here is a link to Gaudin Jaguar as they show the factory parts catalog and prices: Direct JPLV Porsche Parts.com Depending on your year and model here is where you can drill down to the sill plates (All Vehicles - 2013 - Jaguar - XJ - L Supercharged - BODY HARDWARE - PILLARS, ROCKER & FLOOR ) Looks like @ $800 for the 4 doors

 

Wondering where you got the $800 price. When I add up the 4 pieces for the XJL my total shows $1275.76. Is there a discount that I am not aware?

Albert

 

Albert-Thanks for your comprehensive and insightful reply. I hope that in no way you took offense at my reply to your initial response. Come on down to Mooresville, NC where their are all sorts of opportunities for a man of your qualifications! Please list at least one or two articles that found the XJL ride harsh, jiggly and vibrating, and why you feel a larger rear sway bar would address these issues better than say, different tires (which are unfortunately ultimately chosen by purchasing/accounting/marketing personnel rather than the suspension engineers). I have my wifes '10 Mustang convertible for sunny leisurely drives, my '09 Corvette coupe for serious sporty driving, and my '11 XJL 5.0L NA Jag for longer trips in comfort or hauling grandchildren, family and other couples in spacious comfort and style. Each, as you know, has it's strong and weak points.

 

[QUOTE=johndahlheimer;888455]Albert-Thanks for your comprehensive and insightful reply. I hope that in no way you took offense at my reply to your initial response. Come on down to Mooresville, NC where their are all sorts of opportunities for a man of your qualifications! Please list at least one or two articles that found the XJL ride harsh, jiggly and vibrating, and why you feel a larger rear sway bar would address these issues better than say, different tires (which are unfortunately ultimately chosen by purchasing/accounting/marketing personnel rather than the suspension engineers)...QUOTE]

John

Thank you for your concern; I have taken no offense, at all, to any of our discussions. I'm more than happy to share with people what I know, I guess, even if what I know might, at times, not be right

Thank you also for the invitation and kind words, however, I am rather happy here and appreciated in what I am doing. I am practically "writing my own ticket" after early retiring and now teaching young engineers entirely at a schedule of my choosing.

Let me see if I can find some links that you can read about ride comments from pro testers: most of them feel very much like my issue, which is a low level, high frequency oscillating vibration felt though the floorpan, seat and steering wheel. One forum poster hit the nail on the head, complaining about the same issue and adding that one really have to drive the car for about an hour before it truly becomes bothersome. It feels acceptable first and with distance and time it gets worse and worse. Not sure if it actually and mechanically gets worse or simply and gradually wears the driver to the point of wanting to get out of the car and kick-it. My occasional commutes are about 150 miles each way so, plenty of times for the vibration to work on me. It is truly the worst riding car I ever had, as I am absolutely not tolerant towards that jiggly shaking that sends tremors through the chassis. Some people feel it and accept it as positive, saying that it makes them "feel the road". IMO, feeling the road is indeed a good thing but, near constant vibration is a BIG NO-NO in even the least expensive cars.

http://www.truedelta.com/Jaguar-XJ/car-reviews-139

Excerpts from the above test review:

"Ride smoothness

The classic Jaguar XJ was renowned for its ride quality. The current car (2013 XJ) doesn't measure up. While the XJ glides down the highway, at lower speeds it shimmies and jiggles. All but the smallest bumps send tremors through the body structure."

Albert's comment - I have also seen a very recent, I think Australian, video review of the 2014 XJR and the tester also noticed a constant "pattering" of the suspension over smooth road surfaces. Again, very descriptive of what I am talking about.

An other one:
http://www.autos.ca/car-test-drives/...-jaguar-xjr-l/

Excerpt:
"The XJR never really settles down. Yes, it is refined and quiet, but when not on perfect pavement, there is a constant flow of vertical and lateral jiggles that reflect the car’s more aggressive body control."

And an other one:
Jaguar XJ review - ride and handling | Autocar

“Is the ride of the Jaguar XJ good enough? That’s the question we kept coming back to in our time with the car. Initial impressions were that it felt a little too jittery. The complaint was not with big bump absorption, but that small ridges occasionally cause a cross-cabin vibration.”

One more here:
2012*Jaguar*XJ Review By Joe Wiesenfelder

“If there's a downside to the XJ, it's the car's firm ride. Many of our drivers were fine with it, but even with the adaptive suspension in its normal, more compliant, setting, there's no doubt you're more aware of the road surface in this car than you would be in its major competitors”

More:
Jaguar XJ Review | Auto Express
“The steering is light but very precise too; it all adds up to create a car that shrinks around you in a way that rivals don’t. However, the pay-off can be a jittery ride over poor surfaces”

More again:
Jaguar XJ reviews | Expert and user reviews | carwow.co.uk

“If you’re after outright luxury then the ride quality on some versions may be an issue, but handling is peerless.”

From this very forum:

nnassiri
Junior Member
Garage is empty, add now
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Dubai
Posts: 2
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Jag 2013 XJL vibration
________________________________________
"Hello there
Got a new Jag XJL 2013 - an imazing car. however, since I got it and the car has a kind of vibration. I took it to the dealer and they did weel balancing, changed the tires, did new well balancing. The vibration is reduced but still there.. any idea....
Thanks
Nass"

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...ration-106047/



hawianjim
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New 2013 XJ 3.0 vibration steering wheel and seat
________________________________________
"Hi,New to the forum!! Picked up my baby two weeks ago has vibration from 30-70 plus.I was told by the sales manager give it about 2-3hundred miles to get the flat spots out.Well today I brought it in for a diagnosis with 500 mi I was told two wheels slightly out of balance and everything else was OK.Left the dealership with my same problem very aggravated!!! The balance was done with road force machine,also have Pirelli tires ( zero nero).I live in North Jersey,any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance jim"

I have more but, I do not think that I should post some privately sent comments on a public forum without authorization.

Hope you have no such issues with the ride but, if you do notice anything like what these comments are saying, please let me know.

Regarding your question about tires vs. sway bars:

I do hope that I did not accidently say that swaybars would address my vibration issues. No, it is an entirely different subject. Softer tires do help with my vibrations and that is one thing that I am willing to suggest to the Jaguar reps, if Jaguar of NA ever seriously willing to address my complaints. Right now I am running only 22 psi tire pressures in a high speed rated set of tires, trying to soften the ride. Those are not a particularly safe tires pressure to use constantly so, I am being concerned but, still rather accept the concern than the ride with 35 psi.

The fact that dropping the pressures from 35 to 22 psi does help significantly (still does not completely eliminate the vibrations) indicates that the suspension is simply too stiff. Which part of the suspension? My best guess is that the springs are too stiff and when I lower the tire pressures I am simply softening or reducing the total spring rates of the car. Total spring rates = spring + tire flex.

Manufacturers usually do not publish spring rates so no way for me to find out what are the spring rates on the car. However, my old simple and trusted method of pressing down on each end of the car to see how much the springs compress when my body weight (190 lbs) is applied tells me that the springs on the car are of very high rate. On my performance cars I always ran springs that were appropriate and as soft as possible, as longs as they kept the lowered cars from bottoming out over bad pavement bumps. Then, I would compensate for the softer springs by applying thick and stiff anti-swaybars and, if available, dampers with adjustable rebound rates. Even with my ultra performance cars I was always able to substantially compress the springs, particularly the rear ones that always should be softer than the fronts for a front engined car. Try compressing the springs on the XJL (please do NOT push down on the hood or trunk as likely will dent them. Open them and find a solid surface to press down on.) You will notice that the XJL front springs are nearly rock solid and the rears are just a breath more compressible. Too stiff in my book and they likely are so stiff that the dampers are unable to even out (dampen) the high frequency surface irregularities because of that. Sounds to me that is what most of the quoted links are describing.

Long description and I hope it helps to explain my issues.

Albert

 

After having a '10 XF Black/Barley interior Premium Lux 5.0, an '11 XF Metallic Grey/ Black interior 5.0 SC and now a XJL 5.0 White/ Black interior Portfolio Executive, I can say that they were all fabulous.

The XF 5.0 was great, however the interior of the XF SC was even better with sport seating and leather interior along with the striking suede headliner. The 5.0 NA is a super performing engine, 5.0 SC is really faster than anyone would need. I did change to ceramic brake pads to get rid of all the black brake dust.

When I was having the winter tires changed over, I spotted the '12 White XJL 5.0 Portfolio that had be sitting in a corporate fleet for a year. Exterior lines combined with the fabulous interior plus the 5.0 L. made this a dream car. Additionally has the Executive trim with the chrome mirror covers and the 1200 watt B & W sound system. I had the 5.0 SC, which is cool but overkill, the performance of the 5.0 is perfect for my taste. I get so many compliments on this car. People appreciate the beauty of this car.

The car had been sitting a year with 415 miles. I also found front wheel shake. While sorting that issue out I was loaned the 3.0 SC with the start/stop transmission. Any minor vibration was nothing comparing that to the 3.0 SC and that start/stop transmission. The solution was new tires on the front, road force balancing and a 4-wheel alignment. It seems to ride better everyday, however with having sit for weeks and then driving in -12 F weather the tires were a little stiff.

How to improve this car is tough. I am considering the Mina Gallery wire mesh brake duct grills, stainless exhaust and maybe a ECU Tuning Group tune. Thinking about the Speed Pack trunk spoiler too. This is going to be a iconic model Jaguar for me.

 

[QUOTE=axr6;888496]Thanks Albert for your comprehensive and well documented reply. The '10-'14 XJL has an all aluminum monocoque construction except for steel door and trunk hinges, hot formed steel side impact beams, and a magnesium front end carrier for a weight savings of ~40% or ~ 331 pounds compared to competitive cars using predominantly steel construction. The ride characteristics you site are a direct result of the relatively light-weight structure of this limo sized vehicle. Adding stiffer sway bars will only aggravate the situation by making the suspension less compliant. Models employing 20.0 inch wheels rather than 19.0 inch wheels will also suffer poorer ride characteristics, and poorer performance on everyday less than perfect roads, due to their lower profile, and therefore stiffer sidewalls. Personally, within 10 days of buying my used XJL in late November, I had new Continental ExtremeContact DWS ultra-performance all season P245/45HR 19.0 front and P275/40HR 19.0 rear tires installed because of their superior hydroplaning resistance, wet traction, ride comfort, 186 mph speed capability; excellent snow and ice traction (if needed), noise comfort, longer life and less unsprung weight, than the OE Pirelli P-Zero tires that came on the car. WHAM-BAM, this transformed the car into the ultimate road car. Smooth riding and quiet, yet super responsive (including in the wet) and totally composed.

 

Took me nearly an hour. Bought a new metric wrench, and drill bit suitable for drilling through metal. You remove the rubber brake pedal cover (a bit of a struggle), and use a fiber pen to mark the holes using the rubber portion of the stainless/rubber brake pedal as a template; then I center-punched the two locations after supporting the pedal with a piece of wood. I then drilled the holes through what I think was a steel brake pedal structure (it certainly resisted drilling), and then mounted the new two piece rubber/stainless brake pedal cover assembly and tightened the nuts onto the two threaded posts that protrude through the holes you drill through the metal brake pedal structure (the nuts are not easy to reach) using a socket head ratchet drive wrench, and then finished with a hand wrench (because the threaded posts were longer than the socket head was deep). The accelerator pedal was easier because I used the rubber portion of the two piece cover to pilot the drill, and the XJ's accelerator pedal is a non-metallic material far easier to drill through than the brake pedal. Again access to the nut that tightens the two piece pedal cover to the original accelerator pedal is limited due to cramped space, and working by "feel", first with the socket head wrench, and then with the boxed end hand wrench, isn't easy. I then vacuumed all the metal finds from drilling the holes, and reinstalled the floor mat. Anyhow, the new pedal covers (which cost $175.00) look much better than the original plane-Jane rubber looking pedals. I'm so encouraged by the final results, tonight I ordered a set of "Jaguar" aluminum/rubber pedals for $27.36 just to get the "dead" pedal which is held onto the floor by four screws. Worth it? Well that depends if you are as crazy about cars as I am.

 

Albert, I'm thinking about adding "Jaguar" and the "5.0" badges to my 2011 XJL. Can you please give me an idea of how much it might cost? Thanks

 

They cost around $60 each. I also added the 5.0 badge to my '12 XF and purchased from a different dealer who charged $72.

 

My car is white

Black front grills (powder coated flat black) with color coded (polaris white grill trim ring)
red growler
black side vents (supercharged)
black rear lower valance
black exhaust tips
black truck leaper
black wheels
black wrap window trims to flat black

This special edition car is my inspiration.

 

You have obviously given lots of thought and effort to your special edition car!
Congratulations on a job well done.

 

Please keep us posted as to your progress replicating your inspiration, including photos. I'd like to recommend two more mods to complete the look:

1. wrap the white roof in matte black to match the window trims, and
2. dark tint all the windows, to the maximum allowed by your state law.

For the roof wrap, see the thread started by ultra88: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...f-wrap-133173/

He used a gloss wrap and kept his brightwork trim, but you can imagine how slick your car would look with matte black trim and roof - it would virtually disappear. What do you think?

Stuart

 

My XJ mods, so far, are listed in my signature and shown below:

Not shown is my license plate frame including an OEM "Supercharged" badge. I'll take a photo and update this post. I like the bright trim and will keep it.

In addition, I will install the Mina Gallery rear spoiler shown below when the outside temperature gets above 65 degrees.

 

I pretty much have done everything you want to do, if you are looking for a shop that has done this before, let me know. TC

 

i work in XJ BIW at castle brom and own a 2012 supersport (ex directors car so its got every extra you can think of fitted) the only mod im going for is super charger mod and a re map and say hello to 600 bhp

 

I work at Jaguar Castle brom and a proud owner of a 2012 Supersport (Ex directors car so it has every extra you can shake a stick at). The only mods for me are a Supercharger pulley mod and a re map and say hello to 600Bhp........

 

I don't know if you'd call it a "modification", but I wish my XJ-L didn't have a speed limiter on it. Yes, I realize that I really don't NEED to exceed 122 MPH, but it just bothers me that the car has a "leash" on it. None of my American cars have one.....

 

I agree. If I want to go 190 mph in my Vette I can, yet I've never gone over three digits since I bought it over five years ago.

It's like owning a gun. It doesn't mean you will ever use it, but it's nice to know it's an option if you ever need it.

(I'm sure this will freak out some from other countries, but then again if terrorists or any other bad actors show-up at my door, I will be able to protect my family, whereas others will only be able to watch helplessly as their family members are being blown away).