I have a 2017 XJ Portfolio 3.0 diesel. I am in the UK. I purchased just under 2 years ago, about 1 month before covid lock-down, and therefore have driven only 3,500 miles since purchase.
I do not drive my car hard and 12 months of the Jaguar App route tracker will confirm this with low average mph.
Coming off a motorway drive last week the engine was much louder than normal and I assumed an exhaust leak, as this is how it sounded.
No warning lights, no impact on performance. I completed the return drive home with no issues at all.
I booked the car in to my local main dealer ( where I bought the car) who said the exhaust is OK, but the noise is coming from the engine and I need a new engine - £16,500 !!!
My question is, what possible engine fault could result in excessive noise (like a blowing exhaust manifold sound) but have no performance impact?

In addition, if you are in the south of England, any recommendations for automotive engineers that would strip an engine to identify root cause in a forensic fashion that can be used as technical evidence in a small claims court?

 

Kilby, the only thing I can think of is one of your connecting rods has some play on one end that is causing a clacking type of sound as the piston/rod/crankshaft slap back and forth. But, this should be fairly obvious as I would expect a lot of metal flake in the oil filter/suspended in the oil. I could see where this may also be caused by a bad fuel injector as it is not spraying at the proper times to minimize valve noise.

For what they are asking, I would take it to a Jaguar specialist and see what they say. If they say that "yes, you need a new engine", then I would feel that this is what is needed. If they say, "oh, that is just XXXXX", then I would go after that first. I would assume that if they have to get into the engine at all, once they start opening stuff up, things are going to get pretty obvious. Granted, a simple check that I would do is pull the oil filter and shine a flash light on all surfaces that you can see. If it reflects back like the night time sky (ie, bunch of small reflections), then odds are the motor is bad. a good tap on to a rag to see if you get any small metal chunks to come out would be another easy check that anyone can do.

 

Thanks for your reply. so for the connecting rod to have play the piston pin would have to be worn / lose or the connecting rod bearings worn or connecting rod bolts loose? Other than a bolt shearing I'd relate the other two options to a gradual increase in noise as the parts wear rather than a sudden event?

Two things I didn't mention ... the motorway journey was 45 minutes, and just before getting on the motorway, I got caught out by an un-painted speed-bump. Nothing massive, but I hit it doing may 20 / 25mph instead of 15mph. Hence wondering if something could have been shaken loose.
I'll add I have zero confidence that the Jaguar dealership have done a through investigation before concluding a new engine is required, so I'm searching for an independent automotive engine for a second opinion and a detailed analysis. Not surprisingly, there is not much experience of striping modern jaguar engines about.

 

Kilby, something that you can do (and this might be helpful to us) is to get yourself a metal rod about 1/8" (3mm) in diameter. What you are going to do is start the engine and rest the rod on various parts of the engine (want to get as far around the engine as possible) and put the other end up to the bone right behind the ear. This is going to transfer the sound in that spot of the engine to your ear. What you are doing is trying to either match the sound that you are hearing to a spot in the engine or if you hear the sound a lot, where the sound is the loudest. You would be amazed as to what this can do. If you don't mind spending a few quid, they make a "doctor's stethoscope", but it has the metal rod on the end. This can be picked up at a lot of auto parts stores. It does the same thing as just the metal rod. This may give you a bit more confidence in the next shop if you know that the noise is coming from some area on the engine and they are referencing the same spot.

 

Kilby, very strange, the known crankshaft snapping on the V6 Lion diesel is something you would certainly notice. Timing gears have been known to fail & result in a non-start & smashed engine. Oil dilution due to failed DPF regenerations has also resulted in spun crank bearings & a destroyed engine, JLR are now recognising this as an issue & will replace under warranty. Land Rovers & RR with this engine seem more prone to these failures. The UK *********** should at least state what's happened to the engine. Search Facebook for QP Online Ltd, they are in Maidstone, they rebuild V6 engines with new billet cranks, bearing caps etc. Also look for two excellent Jag independents, The Jag Specialist & SSG Prestige Ltd, both in S Yorkshire, both excellent & seem able to get JLR to fix warranty claims. The UK Jag forum has more detail on these failures. Hope that helps

 

Not shaken loose, no, but you may have bottomed the oil pan in a vulnerable spot and broken off internal pieces resulting in debris or insufficient flow to do serious damage.
But as Dar2211 points out, a reputable shop should be able to provide specific diagnosis. Heck, even I can unscrew the oil filter cap and report any visible "glitter" in the oil.

 

Excellent shout about the oil pan, although I don't think I bottomed out, but still the potential to shake something loose.We're waiting to hear from Jaguar to see if they are willing to contribute (at dealerships' request - I'm not expecting anything to come of this, and even if it did, it would still likely be more than a proper investigation and repair) and then I can move to step 3, which is to get the car to a reputable automotive engineer specialising in JLR engines. ​​​​​​​I really appreciate all the feedback, it also makes me feel like I'm not on my own in this fight.

 

Guys…. Couple of questions
What brand of crank Berings and piston bearings, beside oem(not available anymore) , do you recommend? Did you use? What is available in uk?
Same question for piston ring?
I see they all disappeared from the market.
Any brand names, stores? Websites? Producers?
Thank you

 

Check thru PSA dealer. (same engine, they use DT20 instead of AJD-V6 engine code)
You can try Ford dealer as well, because engines are assembled at Ford Dagenham plant, but since V6 Diesel are not installed any European made Ford vehicles, the sales engineer might not found part lists with ease.
Ford have been used few different supplier for crank case bearings, but after lot of issues with 2.7 litre version i thing they worked only with Elring / Kolbenschmidt for 3.0 version, but not 100% sure...

 

Great idea sir

Any experience with glycol? Mahle? King motorsport? Acl?

 

Yeah….. So…. Bad news. Bearings have axial play. …….. Damn. After not even 10 days out the shop…. For thappets and distribution….. Full disassemble. Only symptoms…. Crank pulley wobble…. Like I posted and you guys saw the film. And 1..2.. 3 slight knocks at start. No other symptoms what a ever. 190.000 km. Bearing…. Crank…….. . Ooooo….. And slight vibrations under acceleration….. Not consistent…. Not persistent.… and only under acceleration. And that's that.
I read a lot of post ls in a lot of places about that….. So…..

 

So…… update. Bearings had wear, normal to the miles. Crankshaft is preety good. Engine block preety good to.




No trace of flakes in the pan, engine or filter.
Took a look in the piston chambers and no abnormal wear and tear. Horizontal original wavy scufings in the chamber are visible (best way I could explain ) .
So… next week, new bearings ( king- couldn't find others here, from my understanding king its used here on 530 with similar power ) new oil, new gaskets, refurbed turbos.
Crank bearings had some discoloration but no scufs. Nothing to catch the nail. Piston bearings, as you can see in one of the pics, had some spots.

So…. Opinions?

 

Crank pulley.
Was “repaired “ by previous owner.
See the marks and rubber deformation


Its visible also... The marks, made in cross, on the metal part. He probably used a bar to make it straight….

 

Part nr: 4R8Q 6B319 AA
Second hand well available for appox 20-30USD

 

Yeah….. But the second hand one is good? And for what period? I found new one, made in Poland... 150 pounds, new, warranty.?
Can I trust a old one? Should I trust a old one? Are second hand ones good?

 

I have original pulley. Been there since 2010 / 316.000km (exept removed it for belt change) Still running smooth.
Never heard that they fails.

2.7 litre and Range/Land Rover models have different pulley than 3.0litre on XJ and XF. (wider belt)

 

Please help me with a info

The motor belt
I am under distinct impression that the current mechanic, is setting the engine belt on the edge on the pulleys and sprockets, towords the engine block. I showed him that here is a impression from The previous belt on the sprockets of the 2 engine banks, but he told me that the system and belt is auto adjusting. And as a consequence, a 1500 km belt has minor scuffing on the engine side, because its to close. Mind that I checkt the 2 free rollers on the engine distribution belt myself and no play on them. But I can see clear that the belt is towords the engine, just on the edge on the sprocket of the banks. Can it e set by hand Not on the edge? Is there such a thing as a self adjusting? Is he by purpose not adjusting it right? And by consequence encrising the risk for the belt? Even sabotage? Because in Romania.…. Sabotage by mechanic is a real thing. I have real stories, happend to me and others?

 

Correct term is Timing belt.
On this time your engineer is correct. The belt is self adjusting on rollers. There is no way to adjust it sideways.
The timing belt job is quite simple and hard to make it wrong if instructions are followed.
Watch this video: (its 2.7l, but same process, Flywheel locking tool differs from 2.7l and 3.0l)

Back in time before Russia attacked Ukraine, lot of russians serviced their vehicles in Finland/Estonia/Liettua/Latvia, because russian service shops made "tricks" to get customer coming back. Example by rotating weared brake pads.
However: Its only way down to lose customers totally, because now days social media is so good (at least in EU area, not sure about russia) sharing user experiences that business is out quickly once found out.

 

So…. This belt is 1500 km
Pics of both sides


You can see slightly different surface. One is... Different from the other one

 

Yes, thats pretty normal. Looks Ok to me.
The crank pulley and right side (from front) camshaft pulley have outside edges for guidance so belt dont touch plastic cover when driven on deep water, when thoothed belt can "float" few mm over pulley by water cushion. (and have a risk of jump a thooth)
Edges well visible on video. Naturally engine itself work as edge on inner side.