05 XJ8L: Trying to replace Sway Bar bushings
#21
10-03-2015, 02:01 PM
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Chuck,
Before you order the Arnotts, it might be worth checking the tightness of all the bolts and screws that secure various suspension components, especially any that fasten to the body. At least one of our members found that loose bolts or screws were the source of a knocking sound from his front suspension. Also, what can you tell about the condition of your control arm bushings (upper and lower) and ball joints?
Don
Before you order the Arnotts, it might be worth checking the tightness of all the bolts and screws that secure various suspension components, especially any that fasten to the body. At least one of our members found that loose bolts or screws were the source of a knocking sound from his front suspension. Also, what can you tell about the condition of your control arm bushings (upper and lower) and ball joints?
Don
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AD2014 (10-16-2015)
#22
10-03-2015, 05:25 PM
Senior Member
After doing most test suggested here, by some very bright folk---who I thank loads---, my "CLUNKING" sound remains. So I have come to the conclusion, after calling and talking to Arnott, that my problem is not bushings at all, but the failure of the shock inside the air-shock it's self.
The airbag portion of the air-shock is still doing it's job of keeping the car at the correct height and ride, but the shock is just along for the ride. Each time the wheel hits a low spot or hole in the road, it bangs against it's stops and causes the clunking sound..
The part of the shock that can be seen below the airbag, does show a dampness as if the oil in the shock has been slowing oozing it's oil for some time. There is no large amounts of any loss of oil, but compared to the other side, which is dry as a bone, it is moist. This concerned me in the past when I first tried finding the reason for the noise, but I (wronging) just assumed that if the shock was bad, the whole airbag thing would show up as bad.
This of course means spending more money, but in a bigger chunk, but I won't know the answer to my problem until the system is replaced. I asked about a Senior discount, but the fellow said they don't offer one, but do offer a Military one. When I order the unit Monday, I'll find out for sure and pass on the info.
I'll post results after-----Cheers
The airbag portion of the air-shock is still doing it's job of keeping the car at the correct height and ride, but the shock is just along for the ride. Each time the wheel hits a low spot or hole in the road, it bangs against it's stops and causes the clunking sound..
The part of the shock that can be seen below the airbag, does show a dampness as if the oil in the shock has been slowing oozing it's oil for some time. There is no large amounts of any loss of oil, but compared to the other side, which is dry as a bone, it is moist. This concerned me in the past when I first tried finding the reason for the noise, but I (wronging) just assumed that if the shock was bad, the whole airbag thing would show up as bad.
This of course means spending more money, but in a bigger chunk, but I won't know the answer to my problem until the system is replaced. I asked about a Senior discount, but the fellow said they don't offer one, but do offer a Military one. When I order the unit Monday, I'll find out for sure and pass on the info.
I'll post results after-----Cheers
Chuck, How old are your Arnott air shocks? Mine were installed just before I bought the car and are dated 18.09.14, so I certainly hope they are not the clunk source, but stranger things have happened. Have you definitely determined it is the shocks? Can you make it clunk by bouncing the front end manually?
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dsetter (10-24-2015)
#23
10-03-2015, 06:38 PM
Phil---,
Sorry if I mislead anyone about the shocks, but my shocks (at least the three that remain--this one included)are the air-shocks that came on the car---OEM. They have 64000 on them and are 10--going on eleven years old, as is the car. The left rear, I replaced with an ARNOTT in June of 14, and it has performed flawlessly, my reason for returning to ARNOTT.
In my opinion, if your question was asked because you may be thinking about ARNOTT shocks, is that they are an excellent company and make great products. Purchasing [U]from them is my only connection to the company.Their shocks are beautiful and come with a limited lifetime warranty, and in my book, that's hard to beat, if your planning on keeping your JAG for a long time.
So the time in service having it's effects on the old air-shocks is believable.
I may be all wet in my assumption about what's causing my noise, but I hope not. If this does not correct my problem, at lease I only have two more shocks to replace in the future ;-). Oh, BTY, don't worry about that story about having to change these shocks in pairs. Buy only what you need, it will work fine.
Your question about bouncing the car. Have you ever tried bouncing an Air-Shock equipped car before? Can't be done. At least I can't bounce it.
Cheers
Sorry if I mislead anyone about the shocks, but my shocks (at least the three that remain--this one included)are the air-shocks that came on the car---OEM. They have 64000 on them and are 10--going on eleven years old, as is the car. The left rear, I replaced with an ARNOTT in June of 14, and it has performed flawlessly, my reason for returning to ARNOTT.
In my opinion, if your question was asked because you may be thinking about ARNOTT shocks, is that they are an excellent company and make great products. Purchasing [U]from them is my only connection to the company.Their shocks are beautiful and come with a limited lifetime warranty, and in my book, that's hard to beat, if your planning on keeping your JAG for a long time.
So the time in service having it's effects on the old air-shocks is believable.
I may be all wet in my assumption about what's causing my noise, but I hope not. If this does not correct my problem, at lease I only have two more shocks to replace in the future ;-). Oh, BTY, don't worry about that story about having to change these shocks in pairs. Buy only what you need, it will work fine.
Your question about bouncing the car. Have you ever tried bouncing an Air-Shock equipped car before? Can't be done. At least I can't bounce it.
Cheers
Last edited by Chuck Schexnayder; 10-03-2015 at 06:43 PM.
#24
10-03-2015, 06:47 PM
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Don B (10-07-2015)
#25
10-04-2015, 07:45 AM
Veteran Member
Phil---,
Sorry if I mislead anyone about the shocks, but my shocks (at least the three that remain--this one included)are the air-shocks that came on the car---OEM. They have 64000 on them and are 10--going on eleven years old, as is the car. The left rear, I replaced with an ARNOTT in June of 14, and it has performed flawlessly, my reason for returning to ARNOTT.
In my opinion, if your question was asked because you may be thinking about ARNOTT shocks, is that they are an excellent company and make great products. Purchasing [U]from them is my only connection to the company.Their shocks are beautiful and come with a limited lifetime warranty, and in my book, that's hard to beat, if your planning on keeping your JAG for a long time.
So the time in service having it's effects on the old air-shocks is believable.
I may be all wet in my assumption about what's causing my noise, but I hope not. If this does not correct my problem, at lease I only have two more shocks to replace in the future ;-). Oh, BTY, don't worry about that story about having to change these shocks in pairs. Buy only what you need, it will work fine.
Your question about bouncing the car. Have you ever tried bouncing an Air-Shock equipped car before? Can't be done. At least I can't bounce it.
Cheers
Sorry if I mislead anyone about the shocks, but my shocks (at least the three that remain--this one included)are the air-shocks that came on the car---OEM. They have 64000 on them and are 10--going on eleven years old, as is the car. The left rear, I replaced with an ARNOTT in June of 14, and it has performed flawlessly, my reason for returning to ARNOTT.
In my opinion, if your question was asked because you may be thinking about ARNOTT shocks, is that they are an excellent company and make great products. Purchasing [U]from them is my only connection to the company.Their shocks are beautiful and come with a limited lifetime warranty, and in my book, that's hard to beat, if your planning on keeping your JAG for a long time.
So the time in service having it's effects on the old air-shocks is believable.
I may be all wet in my assumption about what's causing my noise, but I hope not. If this does not correct my problem, at lease I only have two more shocks to replace in the future ;-). Oh, BTY, don't worry about that story about having to change these shocks in pairs. Buy only what you need, it will work fine.
Your question about bouncing the car. Have you ever tried bouncing an Air-Shock equipped car before? Can't be done. At least I can't bounce it.
Cheers
In another post here in the last couple or so days I learned that Arnott actually bypass the CATS system with their air struts.
That being the case is it wise to mix OEM and Arnott struts especially on the same axle? I am thinking very spirited driving scenarios.
Where you mention "bounce" is reassuring as I tried that for the first time weeks ago and wise surprised that I could not push down on a corner at all and wondered at the time whether that was normal.
#26
10-04-2015, 11:08 AM
Checking sway bar bushings
Chuck,
If you disconnect the sway bar links and the clunk remains it proves;
1. The issue is neither the links or the sway bat bushings, or
2. You have multiple issues and elimating sway bar related noise is not the major cause of the clunk.
It is goes away, pull the intake, cross member, and hose. Then change from the top. Also replace the links, they are cheap too and will fail in time. 10 minute job to replace the links.
If you disconnect the sway bar links and the clunk remains it proves;
1. The issue is neither the links or the sway bat bushings, or
2. You have multiple issues and elimating sway bar related noise is not the major cause of the clunk.
It is goes away, pull the intake, cross member, and hose. Then change from the top. Also replace the links, they are cheap too and will fail in time. 10 minute job to replace the links.
#27
10-07-2015, 12:06 PM
Senior Member
to XJ8JR,
I am tryihg to remove my sway bar bushings (new ones are due here tomorrow). Can you elaborate on the statement "access from above to the passenger side bolts is hampered by the coolant tank and various hoses, so your best bet is to either use the extension and universal joint from driver side, or reach all the way in there with your hand."? Do you mean try to reach across from the driver's side with a long extension and universal or to use the extension and universal from above like you did on the driver's side? BTW, are the bushing clamp bolts 13mm?
I am also looking at horizontal bolts holding the aluminum bar above the bushing clamps and can see one on each end from the top; did you reach all four of these from the top also?
I am tryihg to remove my sway bar bushings (new ones are due here tomorrow). Can you elaborate on the statement "access from above to the passenger side bolts is hampered by the coolant tank and various hoses, so your best bet is to either use the extension and universal joint from driver side, or reach all the way in there with your hand."? Do you mean try to reach across from the driver's side with a long extension and universal or to use the extension and universal from above like you did on the driver's side? BTW, are the bushing clamp bolts 13mm?
I am also looking at horizontal bolts holding the aluminum bar above the bushing clamps and can see one on each end from the top; did you reach all four of these from the top also?
#28
10-07-2015, 01:23 PM
Veteran Member
Phil,
To access the passenger side clamp bolts, there are a few options:
First, you can take the long way and completely remove the coolant tank and the hoses. This will give you all the space you need but its more work as you'll need to drain the coolant beforehand.
Second, depending on how long your arms and legs are, you can bend over the radiator and reach down to the clamp with your right hand (if you're right-handed). You'll be able to access the bolts using just a regular long socket wrench this way.
Third, you can use an extension and universal joint to reach down there from the driver side, OR through the myriad of coolant hoses on the passenger side. If you do it from the passenger side, you may have a hard time seeing through the maze.
The easiest way for me was option 2.
I'm afraid I can't recall what size the bolts are. And yes, you can access the four bolts holding the aluminum bar from the top. The passenger side bolts can be best accessed using option 2. Just reach down there from the driver side.
To access the passenger side clamp bolts, there are a few options:
First, you can take the long way and completely remove the coolant tank and the hoses. This will give you all the space you need but its more work as you'll need to drain the coolant beforehand.
Second, depending on how long your arms and legs are, you can bend over the radiator and reach down to the clamp with your right hand (if you're right-handed). You'll be able to access the bolts using just a regular long socket wrench this way.
Third, you can use an extension and universal joint to reach down there from the driver side, OR through the myriad of coolant hoses on the passenger side. If you do it from the passenger side, you may have a hard time seeing through the maze.
The easiest way for me was option 2.
I'm afraid I can't recall what size the bolts are. And yes, you can access the four bolts holding the aluminum bar from the top. The passenger side bolts can be best accessed using option 2. Just reach down there from the driver side.
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philwarner (10-07-2015)
#29
10-07-2015, 03:42 PM
Senior Member
Phil,
To access the passenger side clamp bolts, there are a few options:
First, you can take the long way and completely remove the coolant tank and the hoses. This will give you all the space you need but its more work as you'll need to drain the coolant beforehand.
Second, depending on how long your arms and legs are, you can bend over the radiator and reach down to the clamp with your right hand (if you're right-handed). You'll be able to access the bolts using just a regular long socket wrench this way.
Third, you can use an extension and universal joint to reach down there from the driver side, OR through the myriad of coolant hoses on the passenger side. If you do it from the passenger side, you may have a hard time seeing through the maze.
The easiest way for me was option 2.
I'm afraid I can't recall what size the bolts are. And yes, you can access the four bolts holding the aluminum bar from the top. The passenger side bolts can be best accessed using option 2. Just reach down there from the driver side.
To access the passenger side clamp bolts, there are a few options:
First, you can take the long way and completely remove the coolant tank and the hoses. This will give you all the space you need but its more work as you'll need to drain the coolant beforehand.
Second, depending on how long your arms and legs are, you can bend over the radiator and reach down to the clamp with your right hand (if you're right-handed). You'll be able to access the bolts using just a regular long socket wrench this way.
Third, you can use an extension and universal joint to reach down there from the driver side, OR through the myriad of coolant hoses on the passenger side. If you do it from the passenger side, you may have a hard time seeing through the maze.
The easiest way for me was option 2.
I'm afraid I can't recall what size the bolts are. And yes, you can access the four bolts holding the aluminum bar from the top. The passenger side bolts can be best accessed using option 2. Just reach down there from the driver side.
I did get the driver side bushing off and am trying to keep the blood that is dripping from my elbow off the carpet as I type. Unfortunately the driver side was the better of the two bushings so I'll have to get to the passenger side too. I'll have to see in the morning which option works best for a shorter armed old guy. It was hard enough to see the clamp bolts on the driver side and I had to do them by feel once the long extension got close and blocked my view of the bolt head. I may install the new driver side bushing before I tackle the passenger side so things are not flopping around down there.
BTW, the bolt heads are all 13mm
#30
10-07-2015, 04:38 PM
Veteran Member
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philwarner (10-08-2015)
#31
10-08-2015, 05:26 PM
Senior Member
partial update. Do not use long bolts on the bushing clamps
I still have the passenger side to finish and I bet that front clamp bolt will be a bugger. I hope to get it done before the rain moves in tomorrow, but if not it will just have to wait a day or two while the cuts and scrapes begin to heal.
#33
10-10-2015, 11:43 AM
Senior Member
The long and short bolts are the same thread, but the threads on the long ones do not do all the way to the head so they damaged the top threads in the frame which then roughed up the bolt threads on the way back out. I ran a thread restorer nut on the long bolts too so I think they will be OK to go back on the aluminum bar. The Craftsman thread restorer set earned its keep yesterday, and as Sheldon Cooper might say, I'd have been "fastened by an inclined plane wrapped helically around an axis" without it.
I had a devil of a time getting the forward bolt started in the passenger side bushing clamp after working the new bushing onto the sway bar from underneath. I could just reach the bolt top left handed from underneath but could not push and turn it enough to get it started. I ran the thread restorer up from the bottom through the frame threads, ran the restorer nut onto the bolt, backed off the rear bolt until it was almost out of the frame threads, and finally got the front bolt started. I was then able to reach down from the top between the front of the engine and that mass of hoses with a long extension, 2” wobble extension, and 13mm socket and torque both bolts to 40 ft Lbs.
Anyone know the torque spec for the bolts in the aluminum channel cross bar? I can't find it listed in the suspension torque list. I am thinking 30 foot pounds since it is aluminum.
I had a devil of a time getting the forward bolt started in the passenger side bushing clamp after working the new bushing onto the sway bar from underneath. I could just reach the bolt top left handed from underneath but could not push and turn it enough to get it started. I ran the thread restorer up from the bottom through the frame threads, ran the restorer nut onto the bolt, backed off the rear bolt until it was almost out of the frame threads, and finally got the front bolt started. I was then able to reach down from the top between the front of the engine and that mass of hoses with a long extension, 2” wobble extension, and 13mm socket and torque both bolts to 40 ft Lbs.
Anyone know the torque spec for the bolts in the aluminum channel cross bar? I can't find it listed in the suspension torque list. I am thinking 30 foot pounds since it is aluminum.
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dsetter (10-24-2015)
#34
10-24-2015, 10:20 PM
Senior Member
Just completed this with your guides.
Did it from the top on my XJR. Did not drain coolant or remove tank. Getting cross brace off and moved away. Old bushes were worn so that the bar could rattle when moved with one sway link removed.
Took about 2 hours between picking up bits dropped.
Thanks, had removed that clunking.
Did it from the top on my XJR. Did not drain coolant or remove tank. Getting cross brace off and moved away. Old bushes were worn so that the bar could rattle when moved with one sway link removed.
Took about 2 hours between picking up bits dropped.
Thanks, had removed that clunking.
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