XJ XJ6 / XJ8 / XJR ( X350 & X358 ) 2003 - 2009

2004 xjr Transmission Fault

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  #41  
Old 11-15-2016, 04:38 PM
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Sounds like the water pump is not working and/ or the thermostat is not opening.

Replacing the water pump is not a big deal and neither is the thermostat. Neither are expensive if you do it yourself as I have done.

You say that cold "water" came out the drain plug of the radiator. I presume it was coolant? When replacing coolant it should be OATS compliant and you must not mix types or gel will form.
 

Last edited by jackra_1; 11-15-2016 at 04:40 PM.
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  #42  
Old 11-15-2016, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by JaguarVDP
If problems have be fixed will codes go away on their own or do I have to clear them? My pending codes on misfires went away. How do I know that the computer is done scanning for everything? Well there be a code saying all systems are finished?
Most codes will clear on their own after a sufficient number of drive cycles have been completed and the code has not been re-triggered. One of two system readiness codes will usually appear: If the codes have been cleared but sufficient drive cycles have not yet been completed, P1000 will be flagged. If the codes have been cleared and a sufficient number of cycles have been completed, P1111 will be flagged.


Originally Posted by JaguarVDP
I had a pending code for Knock sensor Bank 2 a current and pending one. When I changed the bad spark plug the restricted performance msg went away as well as the pending Bank 2 knock sensor. The Bank 2 knock sensor (current) is still there. Does this have to be cleared manually?
If the KS fault code is still the P0332 you had earlier, it is probably not due to a bad spark plug or misfire. The ECM is seeing a voltage from the KS that is too low. There is either a problem in the electrical circuit for the KS (possibly a short to ground), the KS has a poor connection to the cylinder block, or the KS has failed. See the definitions in the DTC Summaries manual which you can download in pdf form here:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...03388427,d.cWw

Regarding the spark plug you replaced, if it was obviously bad you should replace all the other spark plugs. You don't need to get your new plugs from Jaguar, but unless you're an expert on spark plugs I highly recommend that you use the same brand and model of plug that your engine was originally equipped with. For example, on our '04 XJR the OE plugs are NGK IFR5N10 (7866). These are fairly expensive Laser Iridium plugs, but they have a very long life so you'll probably never have to replace them again.

Originally Posted by JaguarVDP
Could my water pump be leaking/ not pumping correctly. I took belt off and turned it by hand and it sounds like a baby voice lol. first time I turned it I thought someone was standing behind me mumbling.
Was the sound like coolant gurgling or like a bearing going bad? Water pumps typically continue to operate even if they are leaking, unless the impeller is damaged. The impellers in the X350 pumps are plastic, and while some earlier Jaguar X308s had a problem with the Nylon 66 impellers wearing or disintegrating, the newer black and white poly phenyl sulphide impellers seem to have held up well. I can't recall a report of an impeller problem in an X350 , but now that the cars are 8-12 years old it seems possible this could occur.

The coolant thermostat is a very likely suspect, and if it's original you should replace it as a matter of course.

Cheers,

Don
 

Last edited by Don B; 11-15-2016 at 07:07 PM.
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  #43  
Old 11-16-2016, 07:34 AM
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It was like a whining sound. I pulled out the old one when I first got the car as I though it was bad. I have installed a new one. I wonder if the radiator may be clogged with Gel. (I hope not). I notice the coolant bottle label shows to use the Orange radiator fluid, but I have seen evidence of green fluid. The water in the coolant fill jug stays clear, but when I took off a hose close to thermostat housing, I saw light green. Now if the water pump wasn't circulating, wouldn't the engine overheat? Temp gauge sits in the middle. I do hear the fan slowly increase to high speed and then maybe slow down a little. Also no HEAT, but that could be do to a failed aux pump. Not sure what all happened with this car, but I pray I get all problems fixed.






As far as the MAF error code goes, on the air filter box, there is another hose that comes out the bottom of box and goes over on top of radiator. If that hose is missing and the hole is just opened at the bottom side of air filter, will that cause the Air/MAF code?
 
  #44  
Old 11-16-2016, 08:56 AM
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Green color not a good sign as that is usually not OATS compatible and originally your car would have had OATS orange coolant.

However if you are getting clear water draining out maybe you do not have coolant at all in the system?

The thermostat could be either blocked or stuck closed so that would be the next thing that I would check.

The fact that your temp gauge does not show overheating does not necessarily mean you are not overheating.

Also not getting heat would possibly indicate no flow of water/coolant thru the system. This could be a failed aux pump but I would check the thermostat first as you seem not to have proper flow despite the water pump working.

Another check that you could perform with the engine cold is to undo the supercharger top up plug. Coolant should be at the level of the bottom of the plug hole with the car on the level. Also if there is any gel you are likely to see it down in that hole as fluid does not "flow"in that "dead end".
 

Last edited by jackra_1; 11-16-2016 at 09:00 AM.
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  #45  
Old 11-16-2016, 09:13 AM
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pic showing coolant level in top up hole and the "tool" I used to undo the plug.
 
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  #46  
Old 11-17-2016, 07:40 AM
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I will check it today. I let car idle yesterday and the hoses were warm on the supercharger water pump. Would it hurt if I flush the radiator system?


As for the transmission not finding it way out of 3rd gear.... I drained the oil, put in Mercon SP, although I did NOT change the filter at this time as I would like to do another flush, but the second time with a new filter/pan. The tranny still shifted up to 3rd, tried 5 attemps to leave 3rd, and then Transmission Fault. While I had car lifted in air, I tried to look for the electric plug that was mentioned. If it is a BIG round plug at rear top passenger side, then it was all dry. All the wires/connections I saw were dry. Mechanics (not Jag mechanics) pointed out some questionable things.


1. Both Front end wheel bearings need replacing. The passenger side is WAAYYYY loose and wooble. Mechanic said they had a car with the tranny acting up and couldn't figure out why. Turns out the car had a bad front wheel bearing and the sensor was causing the tranny to act up due to the wheel bearings being bad. Is this possible with the XJR?


2. Do you think this may be a software issue and maybe a re-flash would help. I know as soon as I put car in drive and drive maybe 2 car lengths, for some reason I get Cruise Unavailable message. Maybe all this is tied into the Bad Wheel Bearings??
 

Last edited by JaguarVDP; 11-17-2016 at 07:43 AM.
  #47  
Old 11-17-2016, 07:46 AM
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pictures of old tranny fluid
 
Attached Thumbnails 2004 xjr Transmission Fault-img_1386.jpg   2004 xjr Transmission Fault-img_1387.jpg   2004 xjr Transmission Fault-img_1390.jpg  
  #48  
Old 11-17-2016, 07:52 AM
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Is there anyone locally that may have the tranny flash software or do I need to go to the dealer?
 
  #49  
Old 11-17-2016, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by JaguarVDP
I will check it today. I let car idle yesterday and the hoses were warm on the supercharger water pump. Would it hurt if I flush the radiator system?


As for the transmission not finding it way out of 3rd gear.... I drained the oil, put in Mercon SP, although I did NOT change the filter at this time as I would like to do another flush, but the second time with a new filter/pan. The tranny still shifted up to 3rd, tried 5 attemps to leave 3rd, and then Transmission Fault. While I had car lifted in air, I tried to look for the electric plug that was mentioned. If it is a BIG round plug at rear top passenger side, then it was all dry. All the wires/connections I saw were dry. Mechanics (not Jag mechanics) pointed out some questionable things.


1. Both Front end wheel bearings need replacing. The passenger side is WAAYYYY loose and wooble. Mechanic said they had a car with the tranny acting up and couldn't figure out why. Turns out the car had a bad front wheel bearing and the sensor was causing the tranny to act up due to the wheel bearings being bad. Is this possible with the XJR?


2. Do you think this may be a software issue and maybe a re-flash would help. I know as soon as I put car in drive and drive maybe 2 car lengths, for some reason I get Cruise Unavailable message. Maybe all this is tied into the Bad Wheel Bearings??
When you drained and filled the transmission did you follow the fill procedure at the correct temperature ?

If the transmission does not have the correct amount of fluid/oil it will/could cause big issues in performance.

I would not get a reflash unless I was sure that the fluid level in the tranny was correct.

Bad wheel bearings will not cause a transmission issue.
 

Last edited by jackra_1; 11-17-2016 at 09:46 AM.
  #50  
Old 11-17-2016, 01:34 PM
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Jackra_1,

i drained, filled it with a lil over 2 quarts before it started running out. started the car put it through all the gears about 3 seconds each then to park. filled it until it started running out again and let it warm up to 42C. then plugged it.

So far im being told that if it is giving a transmission fault the tranny is bad. jaguar plano dallas. he said no way to tell and they dont rebuild transmission there at the dealership. i said ok thank you.
 
  #51  
Old 11-17-2016, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JaguarVDP
Jackra_1,

i drained, filled it with a lil over 2 quarts before it started running out. started the car put it through all the gears about 3 seconds each then to park. filled it until it started running out again and let it warm up to 42C. then plugged it.

So far im being told that if it is giving a transmission fault the tranny is bad. jaguar plano dallas. he said no way to tell and they dont rebuild transmission there at the dealership. i said ok thank you.
2 quarts is not a lot at all for draining and the fluid in the bottle you show is well past its prime for sure. You will still have a lot of bad fluid in the transmission.

The transmission is not necessarily bad.

If I were you I would thoroughly drain the transmission and look to get at least 4-5 quarts out with a simple drain. If not then there is way too little fluid in the transmission which should be dripping out at 42 C when filling with the engine running.

When I did mine I did a complete flush myself.

You need two people to do it the way I did and you would need close to 10.5 quarts of new fluid/oil to fill.

If interested I will explain how I did it. No special tools.

The point is its worth doing everything you can before going for a new transmission.
 

Last edited by jackra_1; 11-17-2016 at 03:17 PM.
  #52  
Old 11-17-2016, 05:41 PM
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JaguarVDP,

It sounds like you were following the official procedure, but just in case I am attaching a couple of ZF documents that give the official fluid change instructions so you can double-check. I agree with jackra_1 that 2 quarts is too little to drain out.

Cheers,

Don
 

Last edited by Don B; 11-17-2016 at 10:50 PM.
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  #53  
Old 11-17-2016, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by JaguarVDP
Jackra_1,

i drained, filled it with a lil over 2 quarts before it started running out. started the car put it through all the gears about 3 seconds each then to park. filled it until it started running out again and let it warm up to 42C. then plugged it.

So far im being told that if it is giving a transmission fault the tranny is bad. jaguar plano dallas. he said no way to tell and they dont rebuild transmission there at the dealership. i said ok thank you.
You should have been able to get between 6 - 7 quarts back into trans.

You should first get about 3qts in the pan before it starts flowing out. Put plug in and start car & put AC on, EPB engaged.

Go into each gear with foot on brake and hold for 10 - 15 secs each in R, N, D, 2 & 3 then back to Park and rev to 1500 RPM for 60 secs.

Open plug, you should get another 2 - 3 quarts in. When it starts flowing out cap it, monitor temp very closely.

When you get to 35 deg C open plug.

No trickle, pump a bit in.

If it trickles wait to you get to 38 - 40 deg C and cap it if it's still trickling out.

Engine running throughout entire process and vehicle must be level.

Never let trans temp go past 50 deg C. If so cap it shut car off and wait too out cold back to 25 deg C and start again.
 

Last edited by abonano; 11-17-2016 at 10:41 PM.
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  #54  
Old 11-18-2016, 08:05 AM
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Jackra_1, Don B, & abonano, thanks for the info. Maybe I didn't explain right or missing what your saying. When I said I put 2 quarts in, I was saying after the drain, It took a little over 2 quarts before it started running out. I then started the car put it through the gears 3 seconds each, then I proceeded to put in more fluid. total I put in was about 4.5 quarts. So if this is still not right, I will do as you mentioned abonano and check fluid again as I still have almost 2 quarts left over that I didn't use. When I did the drain, about 4.5 quarts come out. Should I have warmed the fluid up before I did drain or should the tranny be cold during the fluid change? (cold when I did the drain)
 

Last edited by JaguarVDP; 11-18-2016 at 08:09 AM.
  #55  
Old 11-18-2016, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by jackra_1
2 quarts is not a lot at all for draining and the fluid in the bottle you show is well past its prime for sure. You will still have a lot of bad fluid in the transmission.

The transmission is not necessarily bad.

If I were you I would thoroughly drain the transmission and look to get at least 4-5 quarts out with a simple drain. If not then there is way too little fluid in the transmission which should be dripping out at 42 C when filling with the engine running.

When I did mine I did a complete flush myself.

You need two people to do it the way I did and you would need close to 10.5 quarts of new fluid/oil to fill.

If interested I will explain how I did it. No special tools.

The point is its worth doing everything you can before going for a new transmission.
Yes please tell me. I would like to try everything before accepting tranny is bad.
 
  #56  
Old 11-18-2016, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by JaguarVDP

Yes please tell me. I would like to try everything before accepting tranny is bad.
You should get about 6 - 7 qts total. 4.5 qts is too low. You don't need to warm up trans fluid before draining.

Now, did you change the pan/filter?
 
  #57  
Old 11-19-2016, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by JaguarVDP
I am praying I don't have engine problem as well. The radiator hoses swell tight and I can smell anti freeze. If I go back the next day without starting car and open cap on plastic reservoir, it is still pressured with air in it?? I do NOT want to do any damage to this car. I have had several Jags, but not like this. I also noticed yesterday when I started motor I heard a sound like something rattling almost like a tiny ping/knock being tossed around. (not constant) could water pump make this noise?
I don't wish to depress you, however, a cooling system pressurised and a smell of anti freeze, as you describe, is typical of cylinder head gasket failure / cracked / warped cylinder head / cracked /warped block. These engines are not known for these problems, but if a previous owner has cooked it by driving without coolant, after a hose has blown, no engine can be certain of survival.
I know that this is a bodge, but it may save your engine;- there is a product named "K-seal", which was developed for Rover engines which were forever eating head gaskets, if the engine is not already destroyed, a couple of bottles of this may effect a cure.
Good luck, I truly feel your pain.
 
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Old 11-19-2016, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by JaguarVDP
Jackra_1, Don B, & abonano, thanks for the info. Maybe I didn't explain right or missing what your saying. When I said I put 2 quarts in, I was saying after the drain, It took a little over 2 quarts before it started running out. I then started the car put it through the gears 3 seconds each, then I proceeded to put in more fluid. total I put in was about 4.5 quarts. So if this is still not right, I will do as you mentioned abonano and check fluid again as I still have almost 2 quarts left over that I didn't use. When I did the drain, about 4.5 quarts come out. Should I have warmed the fluid up before I did drain or should the tranny be cold during the fluid change? (cold when I did the drain)
Doing the drain and fill procedure that Abonano detailed will get out possibly 60-65% of the old fluid but leave 35-40% old fluid mixed with the new fluid.

Most people do that and everything seems fine.

However it is not that difficult to flush almost 100% of the old fluid out by disconnecting the transmission cooler lines at the double connection where they go into the side of the transmission.

Do the normal drain where you should get at least 6 quarts out with the engine/tranny cold if the tranny was full.. Some people let it drain overnight and claim to get more out.

This is where most people change the pan/filter and round electrical connector.

Fill through the fill hole cold until fluid drips out.

Now disconnect the transmission cooler lines and put some sort of downward deflector in place so that when transmission fluid blows out of the transmission it gets deflected into a large bin.

This is where care is needed. The engine needs to be started for about 1-2 seconds. This is where two people are required. One to start and stop the engine and one to top up the tranny thru the fill hole.

In 1-2 seconds about a quart of fluid will be blown out where the transmission lines are disconnected. It will come out with considerable force!

You put in about a quart at a time and blow out about a quart at a time until the fluid is clear

Then blow thru one of the cooler lines to empty out old fluid in the cooler and fasten the lines back where they were disconnected.

Complete the fill process now as normal at the correct temperature.

My 2005 XJR takes 10.53 quarts of transmission fluid.

This method I have described can be very messy unless precautions are taken. Especially with a deflector plate in position to deflect ejecting fluid down into a large pan/bin.

When I did my change even tho I followed procedure after I drove the car for about 10 miles I needed to add a bit more fluid when I checked it.

I wish you luck with your engine and hope its still good and the same with your transmission.
 

Last edited by jackra_1; 11-19-2016 at 08:18 AM.
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  #59  
Old 11-20-2016, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by abonano
You should get about 6 - 7 qts total. 4.5 qts is too low. You don't need to warm up trans fluid before draining.

Now, did you change the pan/filter?
No, pan and filter wasnt changed as i wanted to do the fluid changed first. I will changed the pan on the second round of fluid change. if there is not enough fluid will that cause it not to complete all gears? maybe the filter is bad lol. either one of those would be cool if that was the problem.

with me not changing the filter is that why i could only fit in 4.5 although that is the same amount that came out. i will try the 15 sec method in all gears.
 
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:24 PM
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well I decided to take water pump off to make sure it was ok. it appears to be fine. This also gave me the opportunity to take aux heat pump off and test it as no hot air comes out of the vents. the pump was frozen from age and water getting into bottom part. i got one off a mercedes and modified it. i tested the replacement pump and it works. i installed it and it still does not turn on! what am I missing? I thought I read the aux heater pump should come on when the ignition is in position 2 with temp set on high with inside blower running. I checked fuse 8 in truck and it is not blown. what could be stopping it from coming on?

this may also explain why my hoses appear to be swollen because there is trapped air/steam in the system. i tried running engine several time with coolant top off of bottle.
Anyway, how does the Aux Heater Pump work?
 
Attached Thumbnails 2004 xjr Transmission Fault-img_1412.jpg   2004 xjr Transmission Fault-img_1411.jpg   2004 xjr Transmission Fault-img_1415.jpg   2004 xjr Transmission Fault-img_1413.jpg  

Last edited by JaguarVDP; 11-22-2016 at 09:28 PM.



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