Hey folks, so last Sunday, we flushed/bleed the brake system because the fluid was getting old/dark, and at first everything went fine, but several days later, my dad reported that the brake pedal was spongy, and we all agreed that air got into the brake system...
And along with that came a few problems, such as insane brake fluid consumption in several days (weirdly enough there's no leak at all under the car), brake fluid odor inside the cabin (my mom mistaken that for rotten fruits)...
So I wonder if there's any way to bleed the air out of the system and to exterminate the odor inside the car, because now it's becoming a dangerous hazard to be driven on the road, and I'm seriously worried that things could happen at any moment.
Please, if anyone can help, that'll be perfect.
Thank you.

 

A spongy brake pedal, insane brake fluid consumption and brake fluid smell would certainly indicate a leak somewhere. Whether a line or in a bleeder valve slightly open or damaged. However, if you replaced the brake pads at the same time were the caliper pistons pushed or turned?

 

Well, we didn't touch the brake pads yet, my dad told me it's still in good condition.

 

I would first look at the easy stuff like bleeder valves. Then line fittings if you used a pressure bleeder you may have pushed too much pressure through and suffering from what this thread describes in post #4 https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-going-131439/

If you had done the brakes I would have looked for leaks around a caliper piston as they can easily be damaged if turned out too far and leak after getting them back in.

 

For #1, bleeder valve are tight (according to my dad).
For #2, we didn't use a pressure bleeder, we went for the two person method (one person loosen the bleeder valve, one person hits the pedal, ignition was set to On, or the 2nd turn).
And for #3, we did not touched the brakes at all (pads are still good).
Hope I managed to provide enough info .
Thanks.

 

Looks like you found at least one reason it was sold.
Its almost always unknown just what's wrong.
Or its just too expensive to have fixed.
Keep looking, you'll figure out where its leaking from, & how to fix it.
Lots of information available here, keep up the good work, & good luck to you

 

It's 95% our fault because before the flush, the brake was really fine (no weird fluid consumption or brake fluid odor in the cabin) except that the pedal travel was a little bit too deep, but yeah, brake fluid is getting old and after the flush, it turned into a disaster.
Anyways we have to fix it if we want to be safe on the road, can you give us any suggestion (like where to look at)?
Thanks.

 

Was your car always a California car? And have you checked for open recalls?

There was a recall concerning brake lines on certain 2004 XJ8 & XJR models. Affected vehicles have vins between G00584-G27877.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/200...9V144-3528.pdf

This is a possibility if you have no leaks in the engine compartment around the master cylinder, booster or ABS pump and your car spent time in wet, snowy climates. There is a thread here about it https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-check-220465/

 

Not uncommon to overflow the reservoir (done it myself due to inattention) and this fluid can make its way down onto various bits and get smelly. A helper may not admit to a small spill 😉 . It's pretty easy to introduce air into the system during this procedure. Would recommend bleeding system again starting with the farthest and working back to the reservoir. I prefer to pressure bleed. Have made up a few homemade kits in the past. Schrader valve bung through a spare reservoir cap and a foot pump is the cheapest. Still requires some finessing though.

 

Cases of fluid "disappearing" when no obvious leaks or drips can be seen is usually focused on the brake booster, which connects to the inlet manifold to provide vacuum to give the boost. There is a valve somewhere in there that has brake fliuid on one side of it and vacuum on the other when the brakes are applied. If the seal is dodgy, the combination of brake fluid under pressure, and vacuum will allow brake fluid to pass into the vacuum chamber, and eventually into the engine where it is burnt.
It does seem strange, though, that this problem occured when a mere brake fluid change was done.

 

Yes, it's a California car, and I've checked for recalls as well, and there's no recall (Phew!).
The VIN number ends in G31937 (just to let you know).

 

Yea, my dad is responsible for putting fluid into the reservoir but he spilled it by accident (the reservoir was emptied before we put in brand new brake fluid), and like you said, it has probably make it's way down to something that caused the entire car to smell like someone has thrown in some rotten fruit.

And yes, I've managed to convince my dad to redo it again, but he kinda argued with me about the brakes.
He said that the whole thing must be done with the engine turning on (which would kick in the ABS pump and something he called a "servo").
Should you turn the engine on and do the whole thing?
Please let me know.
Thank you.

 

Yeah, that's all we did.

And about the procedures, we did the following:
+Open brake reservoir, pull all of the old fluid out with a syringe then put in new fluid (and yeah, that's where my dad spilled some fluid out of it).
+We didn't really worked in order, so the order was: Driver left, Passenger Left, Driver right, Passenger right.
+I would be pressing the brakes pedal while he open and close the bleeding valve (Engine is off, ignition is set to on).
**Maybe this was the issue why air may have gotten in because my dad's communication isn't clear and I mistaken it.
+Ensure that the bleeding valve (or as me and my dad called a bleeding nipple) is tight.
+Put everything back together.

And within a 2 days later, my dad told me the brakes was spongy and the car devours almost all of the reservoir (it's been a few days later as of right now and it only consumed a slightly amount of brake fluid, could be good news I suppose...).

Anyways, we will redo the whole thing again, and it would be great if you can help me with something my dad is arguing with me (So my dad said the engine has to be turned on for everything to work, especially since this car has a "servo" which I do not know what that is, do you think if that's necessary or not necessary?).

Thanks.

 

"Servo" is another word for the brake booster, and more common here in the UK, as in "servo-assisted brakes" Reading your description of work done, I don't think you have a brake booster leak, but clearly you and your father together got a load of air into the system that seems to have eventually got back to the reservoir in some way thus explaining why none is being lost now you have topped it up.
I was not aware you need to have the engine running whilst bleeding the brakes, are you sure the instructions say this ? When I have bled brakes in the past that have a brake servo, I never had the engine running and everything worked. Might be prudent to get a shop to check the job out.

 

Knowing the rest of the story... spilled break fluid would certainly be the smell.

Sounds like you got a lot of air into the system. You need to bleed again.

How I done the manual method. And by "done", I mean before I bought a pressure bottle as my assistant "as in she is always right", questioned my wrench turning ability and not her ability to keep her foot down. Anyhow;
1. Use the baster to get the old fluid out of reservoir and pour in new fluid.
2. Have assistant pump the brakes 3-4 times then hold the pedal down.
3. Starting at the wheel farthest away, attach bleeder bottle and open bleeder screw. Have your assistant tell you when the pedal sinks to the floor. Make SURE they keep holding the pedal down WHILE you tighten the bleeder screw.
4. Repeat the procedure until there is no bubbles visible in the hose when the bleeder screw is opened, then move on to the next wheel.

You would want the Ignition off so you get that hard pedal feel that tells you its bleed properly.

 

Both of mine bled fine, pumping the brake pedal, & turning the bleeder, but not with the Mityvac.
That tool has always worked for bleeding all my cars, & motorcycles, but not on the Jaguars.
Purchased a power pressure bleeding unit, for the future, i read that they do work.
Makes brake bleeding, by yourself, possible again.
Just be careful that you do not to over pressurize the fluid.
Looks like i Was typing this out as FreeWifi was posting.
Did not mean to repeat your information

 

Don't do this with the engine running. Syringing out the old fluid is possibly when the air was introduced to the system as the level may have become low. Typically I would purge all the old fluid without removing any from the reservoir. Keep it topped up and just keep going. There's a lot less in the system as you might think and so it doesn't take that long to flush completely. Persevere anyway. Not something to worry about. You're not likely to break anything per se.

 

About a year or so ago my low brake fluid light came on and I had to add a bit of fluid. This was the first time since I had purchased her. Accordingly, when the low fluid light came on again within a month I became concerned as to where the fluid was going. I found a leak on the passenger side in front of the rear wheel. It was only visible after I dropped the shield on that side. Research led me to understand it was not uncommon to have a line leak in that area on the line that crosses over the vehicle to the driver's side in the rear. I was fortunate in that I was able to tighten the line's fitting which stopped the leak (there was a drip on the coupling I could see when the cover was dropped). I do not know why the line started leaking after so many years or exactly when it started as there is sound deadening material on the panel that absorbed much of the leaking fluid. I have had many vehicles over the years but this is the first time I've ever had a fitting in a well protected area just start to leak. Especially when I have every reason to believe it had been untouched since new in 2004.

 

As far as pumping the old, dark brake fluid through the system.
I always draw it out first, then start pumping the fresh fluid through.
Otherwise sludge can build up in end of the master cylinder bore.
Displacing the fluid, and causing a soft pedal.

 

Well thanks for all the input folks, after bleeding the brake fluid (and turning the engine on reluctantly to make my dad happy), we were able to bleed the entire system and found out the the driver passenger caliper had air in it and after taking care of it, the brake pedal has returned to the pre-flush position.
Thank you so much for the help Now the Jag is ready to hit the road again.