Air Spring Leak at Top Seal
#21
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Hi 34by151,
Maybe we're getting somewhere! Great idea about the part number!
Based on the way Arnotts uses the Goodyear name to suggest their rebuilt air shocks are superior to the originals, I assume the original air spring bladders are not made by Goodyear. Also, the original bladders are hidden behind a rigid dust cover at the upper end and a gaiter at the lower.
So in order to get the Goodyear part number, we would need someone with an Arnotts rebuilt unit to locate the part number on the bladder of their shock. Based on the the photos at their website, Arnotts does not reuse the original dust covers and leaves the air bladder exposed, so it may be possible to view the Goodyear part number on one of their units.
So who has an Arnott rebuilt Jaguar shock and would be willing to read the Goodyear part number off the air bladder? And is your suspension Comfort or Sport?
Thanks in advance to anyone who can help!
Cheers,
Don
Last edited by Don B; 11-28-2014 at 11:15 PM.
#23
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The other option is to get a bad shock and tear it down
If I have the bag (even a torn one) I can send it off to get matched
My guess the replacement will be either Goodyear or Firestone branded
I ended up with mismatched bags on my 4x4 the hats were goodyear and the bags firestone. This was the only way I could get the load capacity, spring rates and travel I needed for my custom suspension
If I have a torn down unit I use the same resources to get a handle on replacements
PS Im looking for sport but that just means a higher rate from the bags as compared to comfort
I will be rebuilding my front and rear suspension soon (after I move) so getting the rates for sport is easy as I can test my shocks when they are out.
I dont have a set of comfort ones to get those rates but we can make a good guess based on available parts
Cheers
34by151
If I have the bag (even a torn one) I can send it off to get matched
My guess the replacement will be either Goodyear or Firestone branded
I ended up with mismatched bags on my 4x4 the hats were goodyear and the bags firestone. This was the only way I could get the load capacity, spring rates and travel I needed for my custom suspension
If I have a torn down unit I use the same resources to get a handle on replacements
PS Im looking for sport but that just means a higher rate from the bags as compared to comfort
I will be rebuilding my front and rear suspension soon (after I move) so getting the rates for sport is easy as I can test my shocks when they are out.
I dont have a set of comfort ones to get those rates but we can make a good guess based on available parts
Cheers
34by151
#24
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Don, Forget my last post, I was thinking of the Upper Shock Mounts I replaced on my 05/XK8--standard, no air, suspension. The picture looks much like those mounts from the top. Guess I had a little to much fine wine on turkey day.
PS: I see you live in Franklin, Tn., we looked at home's there in the early seventies, just as the Country Stars from Nashville started making it a spot on the map. Beautiful little town back then, Must be part of Nashville now. Was the first time I saw homes offered with a shared driveway---couldn't believe it....
Regards,
Chuck
05/XJ8L
PS: I see you live in Franklin, Tn., we looked at home's there in the early seventies, just as the Country Stars from Nashville started making it a spot on the map. Beautiful little town back then, Must be part of Nashville now. Was the first time I saw homes offered with a shared driveway---couldn't believe it....
Regards,
Chuck
05/XJ8L
#25
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Thanks for the correction!
PS: I see you live in Franklin, Tn., we looked at home's there in the early seventies, just as the Country Stars from Nashville started making it a spot on the map. Beautiful little town back then, Must be part of Nashville now.
But for those who are considering moving to Franklin, forget it. You'd hate it here! ;^)
Cheers,
Don
Last edited by Don B; 11-29-2014 at 11:42 PM.
#26
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Got real cold here in Wisconsin last week. Last winter it was a new piston ring and new desiccant for air dryer in the compressor. Front right air shock on the '04 VDP is now blowing out air around the top as Don's illustration indicates. Obviously needs to be replaced. Should I just replace both fronts with Arnott rebuilds at the same time? It would seem to make sense.
#27
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Got real cold here in Wisconsin last week. Last winter it was a new piston ring and new desiccant for air dryer in the compressor. Front right air shock on the '04 VDP is now blowing out air around the top as Don's illustration indicates. Obviously needs to be replaced. Should I just replace both fronts with Arnott rebuilds at the same time? It would seem to make sense.
Hi Ed,
It's nowhere near as cold here in Tennessee, but we've been having below-freezing temps, so after starting our '04, I've been letting it sit in Park until I hear the air compressor start and run its full cycle. On cold mornings it seems to take longer than usual for the compressor to start, perhaps as much as a minute or more. By the time the compressor shuts off, the VEHICLE TOO LOW warning has extinguished and the ride height is good. Only then do I put the car in gear. It's been working so far. You might try the same thing just to see if it could work at -40F, or whatever you're experiencing in Wisconsin these days. It might buy you more time before you have to replace one or more air shocks.
On our car, I've discovered that if I put the car in gear with the VEHICLE TOO LOW warning illuminated eventually the AIR SUSPENSION FAULT comes on, and even if I stop, turn the engine off and wait a minute, then restart and wait for the compressor to run, the ASF won't extinguish until I run SDD to clear it. I don't know why, and I may even be wrong about this sequence of events.
Sorry for the rambling thoughts, but try waiting to put the car in gear until you've heard the compressor run and see if it helps.
Cheers,
Don
Last edited by Don B; 01-14-2015 at 08:38 PM.
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XJRay (01-06-2017)
#28
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I've owned my Super 8 for about a month, and am not familiar with all of her behaiver's yet. So I might be sounding paranoid.
Morning temps in Maine have been 0 degrees F. Sometimes first thing in the morning when started, pump will activate and pump up for 10 seconds resulting in correct height. It does not drop the rest of the day.
Am I right in thinking that this is normal for temps of 0 or below. Its kind of hard to look for leaks first thing, considering at 0 the soap/water will freeze on contact.
I would think that at these extreme temps, all air systems will demonstrate air density issues, and that I might be expecting performance that exceeds the laws of physics.
Also, many cyanoacrylate's will release at freezing temps. Thats how you get the top of a super glue bottle off. (put it in freezer)
Morning temps in Maine have been 0 degrees F. Sometimes first thing in the morning when started, pump will activate and pump up for 10 seconds resulting in correct height. It does not drop the rest of the day.
Am I right in thinking that this is normal for temps of 0 or below. Its kind of hard to look for leaks first thing, considering at 0 the soap/water will freeze on contact.
I would think that at these extreme temps, all air systems will demonstrate air density issues, and that I might be expecting performance that exceeds the laws of physics.
Also, many cyanoacrylate's will release at freezing temps. Thats how you get the top of a super glue bottle off. (put it in freezer)
#29
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#31
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Andrew,
You could definitely make important contributions to the collective knowledge of the Jaguar community if you were to disassemble and photograph your old OE shock. The air spring is the part that would seem to be the least dangerous to disassemble and of most interest to our DIY pursuits. The gas-charged damper itself is probably less likely to be user-serviceable and more dangerous to try to disassemble.
But if you can show us how the air bladder mounts, any part numbers or manufacturer name marked on the bladder, and how the top seals of the unit are set up, we would all owe you a big THANK YOU.
Cheers,
Don
#32
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Hi Mooman333,
mhamilton is right - the exhaust valve is part of the air compressor assembly, and I don't believe air should ever escape from any part of the air spring/shock.
I may try to partially disassemble the unit to see if I can tell what is going on, but I may first try working some sort of sealant as deeply as possibly under the red seal to see if I can seal the leak to extend the life of this air shock.
Cheers,
Don
mhamilton is right - the exhaust valve is part of the air compressor assembly, and I don't believe air should ever escape from any part of the air spring/shock.
I may try to partially disassemble the unit to see if I can tell what is going on, but I may first try working some sort of sealant as deeply as possibly under the red seal to see if I can seal the leak to extend the life of this air shock.
Cheers,
Don
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Don B (10-23-2015)
#34
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Great minds think alike! I had already suggested that idea to 34by151 via PM a few months ago. I agree with him that regular silicone would be very unlikely to hold. However, I have identified a sealant that looks like a good candidate. But it's expensive, and I don't know if it will have a sufficiently low viscosity to be drawn into the leak by a vacuum applied to the air bag hose fitting.
Below is a link to the sealant, called Copaltite, which is rated for steam joints to 2,000psi and 1,200F, flanges without gaskets to 6,500 psi, and threaded joints to 10,000 psi. It is said to adhere to metal, rubber, ceramics and most plastics, and to resist vibration and shocks. I would have already ordered some but it's USD $64.00 plus shipping for a 5 oz tube.
![Icon Greedy](https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_greedy.gif)
So I've decided to let the idea gestate a little longer. After all, $65 could go a long way toward buying a good salvaged air spring/damper on eBay.
Copaltite Liquid Form (5 oz. tube) - Liquid Form Sealant - Sealants | Copaltite
Cheers,
Don
Last edited by Don B; 10-23-2015 at 08:51 AM.
#35
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Hi jpco,
Great minds think alike! I had already suggested that idea to 34by151 via PM a few months ago. I agree with him that regular silicone would be very unlikely to hold. However, I have identified a sealant that looks like a good candidate. But it's expensive, and I don't know if it will have a sufficiently low viscosity to be drawn into the leak by a vacuum applied to the air bag hose fitting.
Below is a link to the sealant, called Copaltite, which is rated for steam joints to 2,000psi and 1,200F, flanges without gaskets to 6,500 psi, and threaded joints to 10,000 psi. It is said to adhere to metal, rubber, ceramics and most plastics, and to resist vibration and shocks. I would have already ordered some but it's USD $64.00 plus shipping for a 5 oz tube.![Icon Greedy](https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_greedy.gif)
So I've decided to let the idea gestate a little longer. After all, $65 could go a long way toward buying a good salvaged air spring/damper on eBay.
Copaltite Liquid Form (5 oz. tube) - Liquid Form Sealant - Sealants | Copaltite
Cheers,
Don
Great minds think alike! I had already suggested that idea to 34by151 via PM a few months ago. I agree with him that regular silicone would be very unlikely to hold. However, I have identified a sealant that looks like a good candidate. But it's expensive, and I don't know if it will have a sufficiently low viscosity to be drawn into the leak by a vacuum applied to the air bag hose fitting.
Below is a link to the sealant, called Copaltite, which is rated for steam joints to 2,000psi and 1,200F, flanges without gaskets to 6,500 psi, and threaded joints to 10,000 psi. It is said to adhere to metal, rubber, ceramics and most plastics, and to resist vibration and shocks. I would have already ordered some but it's USD $64.00 plus shipping for a 5 oz tube.
![Icon Greedy](https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_greedy.gif)
So I've decided to let the idea gestate a little longer. After all, $65 could go a long way toward buying a good salvaged air spring/damper on eBay.
Copaltite Liquid Form (5 oz. tube) - Liquid Form Sealant - Sealants | Copaltite
Cheers,
Don
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Don B (10-23-2015)
#36
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Right. 34by151 and I had discussed simply threading the check valve out. It's the part the air hose fitting threads into. I'm still not positive this is a good idea, so that's part of why I'm still in gestation. I think I recall that the Dealer Training Manual says that if the check valve is removed the air spring must be replaced....
#37
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Well the residual pressure valve came out on both of my front struts.
Both were deflating and the issue was the air line
When I removed the compression fitting the residual valve also unscrewed. There was no way of separating them on the car
The net result was the car resting on full compression
The fix was to keep the compression fitting in the residual valve then screw in a standard 6mm compression fitting into the base of the original
IE I then had the residual, the base of the original compression fitting and a new one on top of that
So the answer is its OK but I would not drive on it!!!
Latter on my top seals developed a leak, which I repaired in a way that I cant go back from. I have a bolt on fix but need a set of leaky sport struts to test with
Cheers
34by151
#38
#39
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I repaired both front struts that were leaking from the top seals, although I replaced them with bilstein units anyway
Its not a job for most as you can destroy the internals if you are not carefull.
As I indicated before I have a bolt on fix but i'm not able to test it as I need a set of leaking struts
Cheers
34by151
Its not a job for most as you can destroy the internals if you are not carefull.
As I indicated before I have a bolt on fix but i'm not able to test it as I need a set of leaking struts
Cheers
34by151
#40