Eddie, I wish you success. I'll be following your progress closely.

I am looking forward to learning about how you perceive any differences between your VDP pre and post- install.

 

The young woman I spoke to at Arnott Tech said the ride is closer to comfort versus sport. We will see.

 

MK 82,
I have a Rangie, and you have described some pretty classic EAS problems. Personally, I wouldn't change to coils. They will last longer, but you will induce body roll to the equation. And the EAS Systems are actually quite simple once you understand how they operate

The basic principle of operation is thus:_

The compressor is responsible for maintaining the air tank. All spring control air is taken from this tank, but if there is a substantial leak anywhere in the system, the compressor will not maintain pressure, and the compressor will try to run all the time. The thermal cut-out built into the compressor will then shut the compressor down for around 3 minutes to allow it to cool.

The EAS computer will monitor ride heights continuously and will adjust the suspension to achieve the pre-programmed ‘correct’ heights, but if a door is not fully closed, it will not permit any adjustments to occur. An open bonnet should not have any effect.

The bulk of the control work is done by the ‘black box’ associated with the EAS Valve body itself. This unit controls the valves, and signals any air requirements to the EAS system. It is also the most common unit to fail, other than the compressor.

Now, the first high tech tool you need is a plastic spray bottle filled with extremely soapy water. Start by spraying around the air line connections to the suspension ‘bags’ & the reservoir tank and where they exit the EAS Valve Body. Plenty of suds required, and patiently watch. If you get air bubbles being blown, even small ones, you have a leak. A very small one is not likely to be the cause of the problem but remember that ‘from acorns Oak trees grow’. Fix it anyway.

Which brings up one very important ‘little’ thing. YOU MUST RELEASE THE SYSTEM PRESSURE BEFORE WORKING ON IT. DEFLATION IS NOT HARD. If you have a laptop, buy an OBD II adaptor cable for your car (I paid about $45 for one for my Rangie, but I think that they have come down since then. The supplier will also be able to tell you where you can download the software, and you can then carry out ‘deflation’ procedures using your laptop)’ Alternatively, you can release each spring & the reservoir pressures by using a flat tool to push the each collet inwards towards the valve body and then pulling the air line out. It does take some strength in the push. The collet will physically move about 4mm or so before you will be able to pull the airline. It will hiss & carry on, but it won’t hurt you. Just wear protective glasses so that you don’t get dirt or other foreign objects blown into your eyes. Start with the air bag closest to you and work ‘outwards’ from there. It just makes life a little easier, it’s not essential.

Listen to the compressor. If it is almost constantly running, unbolt it, disconnect the exit air line from it to the valve body, run it (if need be by ‘jumpering’ the relay), and put your finger over the outlet. If the pump slows down, then it is pumping air. Note that this does not mean that the pump is good, merely that it is still delivering some pressure. A gauge is still the best answer, but if there is a marked difference in the pump speed, it is probably ok.

If the compressor starts briefly then stops, the fault is probably the thermal cut-out in the compressor motor itself. This is not repairable, you have to replace the compressor. This failure is almost always caused as a result of an air leak somewhere that has caused the compressor to overheat & recycle too many times, or because the ring(s) on the piston are so worn that the compressor cannot supply sufficient volume of air to maintain the tank.

The compressor on a Jag is much smaller than the Range Rover equivalent, and quite frankly that makes the damned thing a toy. A solution practised by Rangie owners is to mount a separate much higher capacity compressor outside of the EAS box and wire it back into the original circuit. (A Thomas 315 series is also adaptable to the Range Rover EAS ‘Box” but probably not to the Jag one. I mention it as a possible ‘brand name’ for those who want to research such a solution). That way the EAS computer doesn’t notice, the system then operates as normal, but because the EAS controller (the black box attached to the valve body) doesn’t have to operate things as often it too may last somewhat longer.

Overhauling the Valve Body is also not that dramatic a job regardless of the Dealer’s ‘doom & gloom’ claims & prices. The body is machined out of solid alloy, and I’ve never seen a broken one yet. The seals are mostly “O” rings, and although the ones behind the air line collets are slightly different to standard in shape (they may have one ‘patterned’ side – I have replaced those with standard with no apparent problems) you can buy them from almost any bearing & seal supply stores. Just make sure that you get replacements that are the same size, particularly for those inside the solenoid bodies themselves. Do not be afraid of taking the valve body itself apart, just note which bolts came out of where (there can be length differences), and buy some suitable grade ‘locktite’ to use when carrying out re-assembly, it just makes sure that the bolts stay put while in use. There is also a ‘flat’ rubber type seal in the exhaust body (be careful, it has a little spring behind it) that may be in need of replacement, and I have heard o someone using a bicycle tyre patch to get out of trouble with this. Rover Renovations have replacements for Range Rovers, and could probably help with this if you get stuck. There are also some odd shaped spring loaded little non-return valves sandwiched in the valve body which look more frightening than they actually are. I found one of those with a ‘crease’ in the seal which is also an “O” ring. Replace them as well. I spent less than $50 all up on seals etc, & it took no more than about 3 hours to carry out the work

The other little exercise that I did was to use a very thin smear of swimming pool filter gasket silicon sealant grease on every “O” ring, and around each air line before re-inserting it Good quality rubber grease could be an acceptable alternative, but don’t use ordinary sealants or lubricants. You need to use a material that will not react with the metals or seal surfaces over time, will not ‘set’, and that will not make the lines too slippery. There are double “O” rings behind the retaining collets to hold the air lines in place, and you don’t want them to pop out under pressure while operating. I’ve never had it happen, but I suspect that if one is too ‘liberal’ with the sealant that could happen.

It is unusual for the solenoid valves to fail electrically, but they have been known to crack at the base. Not normally a problem and in the past have been impossible to buy new. Again Rover Renovations may be able to help, but also any Landrover wrecker can probably help with a good second hand unit. Take the old one with you as there can be a difference in the internal orifice size and thus the plunger. Be a little careful about the wiring if you are buying looms, as the plugs can be different model to model & year to year. Quote your VIN. It has the MY in it, and that can be different to the year of first registration.

Failure of the EAS computer is extremely rare: the foremen of one workshop I know tells me that he has only seen one dud in 17 years of repairing Range Rovers.

The other advice that I have is re the suspension air bags. Never replace just one, unless you have accidently ruptured one by ‘foul’ means, and the others are in absolutely sound condition. Age is the main cause of failure, and by around 10 years of age they will start leaking due to the rubber perishing. Often the leaks will not be obvious as the most rubbing occurs inside the folds in normal operation. Frequently the leaking area will be held in check by the two surfaces that are in contact resulting in very small leakage until you hit a decent bump. You will probably not be aware of that ‘bump’ leak until you start to have compressor or EAS problems. I suggest that at 8 years onward you carry out regular & thorough (at least annual) inspection of the bags, and if in doubt, replace. If you do all four at the same time, you will not have to worry about them for at least another 8 years. I also not that someone is now advertising a ‘lifetime’ warranty on such bags. But because I am such a cynical old coot. I would view the term ‘lifetime’ as being very subjective. Read, & shop around. Deal with someone that you feel you can trust rather than the ‘best price’. Don’t be ‘penny wise & pounds foolish’.

The EAS system is actually rather smart but very simple at the same time. It is not something that requires a rocket scientist to repair, just a little thought (yes, I know, well beyond the mental capabilities of far too many dealer’s workshops: if the ‘book’ doesn’t tell them the answer, they panic, change everything, and give you the bill). Any mechanically ‘practical’ person can repair it.

Cheers,

Languid

 

Looking forward to your review. The air suspension system is rather a pain to maintain in good order.

 

Languid, do also run a forum called www.dealerbashing.com
you constant slamming is getting pretty old to me and maybe others I dont know. Do you think you can actually start giving advise without the constant need to slam those of us that work at a dealership and have been here helping others long before you got here...........
CHEERS

 

Languid,
Did you read any of this thread? Body roll is why sway bars were invented. Your cut and paste serves no useful purpose here.

 

Brutal,

My 'slamming' of Dealers is because of the treatment that I and others I know have been treated by them. If the Dealers don't like what people have to say about them, then they need to lift their game. Whether you like it or not, there are far to many people even on this thread who have been mistreated as customers by Dealers. When you add together poor advice (to the point of absolute ignorance - evidence on this Forum being the hostile Dealer attitude towards the aluminium thermostat body or not checking the thermostat body with its known problems when doing a radiator flush - I could go on), to charging fixed 'book' hours for repairs regardless of how much less time the job actually takes, to 'changing boxes' at customer's expense when they don't actually know or care to work out what the problem actually is; then I will stop criticising Dealer behaviour.

It's not up to me to improve their attitude, but I am a consumer, and if they don't like my criticisms, then I suggest that they do something to improve their record. The truth is pretty hard to argue with.

MK82,

That is not a 'cut & paste'. It is from my own & my partner's experience, and that of two independant Range Rover Service businesses that I know well. With references to others included where it is of value to those of this (or any other) Forum who are in need of guidance.

My business partner is actually a pretty damned good 'old school' mechanic who has enormous practical experience. I still recall the first & (in my opinion anyway) most important lesson on my first morning of engineering school - "If you don't know, ask, consult the book, or go to someone with whom you can discuss and an analyse the problem; never assume". The biggest problem that I see today is that if it isn't in the book, few Dealers are prepared to say "I don't know" or are capable of analysing a problem. They simply throw another part at the car, charge the owner, and hope that it solves the problem. If not, when the owner returns, they simply repeat the problem with another 'box change' and another bill. No wonder they have such a bad reputation.

And just to clarify, my background is electro mechanical engineering. Admittedly, a long time ago, a time when 'throw away parts' were not the norm. We had to use our brain first, and our hands last.

Also, for the record, there was one Dealer in Melbourne, Melbourne City Landrover, when I bought my Rangie years ago, whom I considered to be a 'good dealer'. And although I would happily have them carry out work on my vehicle today (they are two & a half thousand kms away from me now) even then they wern't perfect. I had trouble with the cruiise control from day one: two separate parts were replaced under warranty, but it was I who finally found the fault - a split in the vacuum hose to the diaphragm. I never saw the bill for the warranty repair, but one part was ordered from the UK. The hose repair cost $4 and took 5 minutes. I had no experience whatsoever with Rangies or cruise control up to that point, but used logic & common sense to examine the basics to find the answer.

The old adage goes on about the fitting of a cap.

Languid

 

LANGUID. The problem is this do you think any dealer principles/manager/advisors even come here? NO and only a hand full of dealer techs even come here. Those of us that do, do it because thats OUR character, not as dealer employees, but as individuals. I understand the hostility towards dealers(and many other industries out there, but this is a car forum) My point is this, there are many good dealers out there, and good techs, just as many bad too. and probobly even more individual shops andtechs too. They dont know the cars as well but it hurts much less in your **** when the bill is smaller. But to me throwing good money away for bad repairs sucks no matter who is doing the work. Be it Doctors(misdiagnosing my cancer 12 years ago), body shops doing shyty work and charging good money, home repair and remodels and even new contruction that cost more money to fix from substandard products and work....the list goes on and on.
If you want to continue to dealer bash I would direct it to those that have given the poor service, and not so much around here because I for one can tell you I spend alot of time and loss of income to help everyone on this board. I do take offense when it becomes almost every single post from you. You want to help, fine, dioit, you have lots of good info, But I direct people to not only dealers, but indies as well. EVERYONE makes mistakes, NO ONE is perfect. Why not use the forum for what it is designed to be. A source of info to help owner and Jaguar enthusiast out in a MUTUALLY beneficial way both indie techs/owner/and dealer techs....The most knowledgable info on this board comes from who? TECHS THAT WORK AT DEALERS by far. And the few indie techs that are looking to help and get some work too.There are only a few of us, wonder why, because too much dealer bashing and they say fyou get someone else to help you then.
So again, Languid, do you want to be a burr, or would you rather work together to help the many Jaguar owners here to make the car a more pleasurable experiance and drop the contant snipes
oh and on the BOOK time issue, no one says anything when the time we get on BOOK time even comes close to cover the time is takes to do the job now do they. But we eat that just as well. There was a time when I wasnt as fast as I am now, but to make money you have to become eficient, should I then be penalised because Im good and FAST??? Memebers that have been around here for awhile know I also call BS on dealers just as well as others, I just dont do it across the board with a shotgun, but a rifle.

 

I think you guys are wasting your breath with Languid. It's my guess that the best dealer/service provider he ever meets will, sooner or later, disappoint him.

I was in high tech customer service, not automotive, for over 30 years and there is a certain type of customer who refuses to be satisfied either because they think they have superior knowledge, expect something for nothing, weren't given proper deference or have unrealistic expectations. Any short coming on the part of the service provider, no matter how small, merely confirms their set in stone beliefs.

Languid may be one of the above and as such no amount of logic or talk will help. I can remember 1 or 2 of these guys back in the day that nearly wrecked a "satisfaction guaranteed" organization. That is until we got wise and fired the customer instead of another customer serv. rep. Before I get too crazy here I think I should add that precious few auto dealerships are on set up on "satisfaction guaranteed" principles.

 

Languid makes many salient points. You can't deny that. I agree with him fundamentally as well. Brutal basically has the same trial and error process down to a science on the air suspension. I've read his posts enough to know that there are those out there who can and do accurately diagnose and repair the air suspension, making it an affordable upkeep system.

By and large, however, I agree with Languid on dealers. Horrid dealers are the norm, not the exception. Brutal, you are the rare gem.

 

I really liked Russell McInroy at JacMac. I think they are rare gems too.

 

Well, FWIW, my local UK dealer in Cheshire is a gem from my experience of them. However, good as they are, I went to a local and well recommended indie for recent suspension work solely because of the parts price issue. Even then, the rear wishbones (2 of them), cost £200 each ! What I shall do for the next 10k service, I am not sure; I shall probably use the indie again because I am now retired and its the only way I can keep the car with money now much tighter.

I do think that slagging off all main dealers as a group is very wrong. I also appreciate the time and trouble taken by some Jaguar technicians in the dealerships posting information on this forum. Its whole point, surely is to help us all in keeping our Jaguars in fit and good condition and a joy to own.

 

tnx trav and frazier. really my sole point is okay we got it, now lay off because enough is enough. this forum is about owners looking for solutions, from be it dealer, indies or DIYer's.
how would everybody start feeling if I stated in half my posts that DIYers and indies Fup cars and have no business touching such a complicated, fine piece of...automobile... Theres thing I dont like about dealer networks too, but you work with what ya got. We have alot of indies that bring in cars for us to fix they cant as well as some diyers. we dont shun them away but I know dealers that do, those are probobly the same shops that have techs that not only wont help each other, but well send another tech down the wrong road just to take work from them and make them look bad. Problems is that its the shop that suffers not that tech. the customer doesnt know who worked on their car. only that ____shop cant fix anything, or ripped me off. So the workload to the shop falls off and everyone then suffers. We want happy RETURNING customers and even though we're not always successfull, that want we want to deliver night ya'll ...mom's in town and we're going out to eat with the kids and grandkids

 

I don't have the time or currently have the environment to learn and become conversant and proficient at repairing these cars, but I know I could. I will be performing normal upkeep and basic maintenance like oil changes and the like, but I am going to be relying on an indy shop, in this case JagMac.

I am a dyed in the wool optimist and a reconciler of disparate points of view by nature. I see more convergence between Brutal and Languid than divergence. And I hear you Brutal, about dealers. There are great dealers. And I am a bit grumpy about you being so great in Houston, and me being within spitting distance of Jaguar of Plano, where my first and only experience with them had me swearing I'd never set foot in their building again.

 

Great helpful post! Thanks for the time....

 

Reading these air suspension horror stories make me second guess a XJ. But I just love the cars! Once your coil overs are installed please keep us posted.

Better yet, start a new thread with comparison feedback with air vs steel. Good luck....

 

Lanquid,

Re post #63, well done.

 

You can't be serious. He jumps into a Jag thread. Posts a bunch of stuff about how a "Rovie" works-half of which does not apply to the X350. All he did was muddy the water. He does not appear to know anything about the X350. Thats why I am abandoning this thread and starting a new one for my coilover conversion. Maybe he won't see that one.