I'm curious as to why you think it could be the O2 sensor, which has its own set of codes.

 

I didn't think about the O2 sensors having their own codes, but of course it makes sense that they would have shown as DTCs if they are the problem. So then it must be the cat itself, right?

 

Hello, I am sure the 3 part includes cleaning out injectors as well as the decarbon/upper engine cleaning which are 2 different things, although the the injector cleans also helps clean out the carbon deposits inside the cylinders. One is made more to clean out injectors, one is made more to clean out carbon deposits. For the 3rd they are either removing the intake hose and cleaning out the throttle body and reachable intake area, or adding something to the fuel, like simple pour in tank fuel system cleaner you get at any part store. Like I said these procedures are typically 20 minutes long, so you have to run the them multiple times to get the 40-45 minutes. And $466 sound outrageous for that, yea I would try and do that yourself, or find a respectable shop nearby that will do it for you.

I bought my 04 xjr from a Jaguar dealer, and it was owned by someone that worked there and I got all the receipts for the car, funny they blocked out the price of everything on them??? Wonder why. We have a GM dealership 2 blocks from my fathers shop, and that dealer charges $135 per hr now, wonder what Jaguar labor rates are??

As per Don B, I did check all TSB and recalls for your car thru our ALLDATA REPAIR at my dads shop just in case. I sure don't want to give out harmful information. There is not anything listed as far as not revving the engine in park or neutral. I know this has a zf type 6 sp trans, and X308 has zf 5 sp trans, but not a clue what the older ones had. HOWEVER, I did find a TSB regarding o2 sensor removal. Jaguar TSB JAGA309-001 Just Google (JAGA309-001) and the complete detailed procedure listed in how to avert from damaging/removing the treads from the converter during o2 sensor replacement.

You also said your CEL went off this morning. That is not surprising at all since the cat converter monitor is not a constant monitor. It only checks cat efficiency monitor once per drive cycle, and the rest of the fuel, air and emission system have to reach certain ranges. Once it fails to be able to run the monitor 4 times in a row due to all other condition not being met or unable to perform test due to time restrictions, the o2 diagnostics restart and therefor turn off the check engine light. It doesn't know if there is a problem if it can't run its own test !!!

Here is a breakdown of what needs to take place all at the same time before it can check cat efficiency:

Engine RPM must be between 1300-3000rpms for 30 seconds
Close loop fueling must be active
engine coolant temp must stay between 75-120 Celsius
Intake air temp must stay between -20 - 110 Celsius
Airflow must be 14-65 g/s
Atmospheric pressure must be over 70 kPa
Airflow change less than than 30 g/s/s
Engine speed change less than 360 rpm/s
Throttle angle change less than 10 deg/s
Idle circuit must be inactive
Sub feedback compensation 0.9-1.1
Linear air fuel ratio .75-1.25
Fuel level must be greater than 11%

All the above must be met for 30 seconds for the computer to decide whether the o2 sensor signals can be used to detect converter fail or fault in the computer. If it tries to run the test but is interrupted by any of the following going out of range, it can't complete test and if it get interrupted 4x, the code will change from a current code to history code in and shut off the CEL. This is why it may take longer that other times for the CEL to come on.

The injectors being plugged should have resulted in less fuel getting thru them instead of more so that shouldn't damage the converters. Converters are damaged when too much fuel is left in the exhaust system. The converters try to burn the excess and they get so hot they melt inside. Sometimes they will even glow red on the outside!!! You will smell this as a very strong sulfur smell, many people know it to smell like rotten eggs. You would have had a rich code listed if that was the case long before it ever started to misfire.

And one thing I forgot to ask or mention, if your car uses oil. If it does this oil residue will coat the interior substrate of the converters which ruins the converter.

 

My father owns a shop here near Chicago, IL. I can tell you it is VERY common that an o2 sensor will cause a cat efficiency code when in fact the o2 sensor is the fault. Take out an old o2 sensor, you will notice residue on it. These sensor need to be incredible accurate, and if it starts to build up with residue, it can't read correctly. FORDS are very well known in the industry to list an o2 sensor code when the Mass Air Flow sensor is bad. It is a simple reason, these sensors need to operate in a very tight range specification, if if it is out of range slightly, the computer thinks that sensor is reading correctly so it may set a code for something else.

 

Great for Fords but not apparently true for these Jaguars.

 

I just said Ford because it is most common but it happens to all cars. You are aware that starting in 2004 the XJ x350 borrowed its platform from the Lincoln LS and Ford Thunderbird right? (Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Mazda, Volvo Jaguar, Group at the time) and the Mass Air flow sensor from the jag also fits Mazda and Volvo as well, ya know, other Fords So many cars share the same parts anymore, Maserati and Bentley use the exact same 6hp26 transmission as the Jag, and Lincoln Navigator uses basically the same transmission as the XJ, a 6(s)hp26 vs a 6hp26 a slightly different version for the 4wd. Volvo used the General Motors 4T65 transmission is some cars. Chevy and Dodge pickup trucks used the same front brake pads 1994-1999.

Besides, an Denso brand, which is a good brand, o2 sensor is only $47 for the xj vers several hundred dollars for a new converter, and o2 sensors are technically a service item, not a repair item, which means they do require periodic replacement. Any reputably auto repair shop would replace the o2 sensors when they install a new converter, so I guess why not try the o2 first. And we can always hope for the cheaper fix right.

By the way I have a rockauto discount code if kbeachy needs an o2 sensor or converter, or if anyone else needs something for that matter

2273755020833795

Using Your Discount Code

Enter the code above in the "How did you hear about us" line of the shopping cart. If you are using our traditional HTML catalog, please click the "Apply" button to the right of the field. Your discount will automatically appear, subtracted from your parts order total. Orders using discount codes must be placed online. Phone orders are not eligible for discounts.

Please note: We sometimes get calls from people who put the word "discount" in front of their code and do not get the discount. Please enter ONLY the discount code, no other words or numbers. Code must be entered before order is submitted to receive discount. The discount takes 5% off our already-low prices. There's no limit on order size or the number of orders. Use the code for your next order, and share the code with friends, neighbors, relatives, the guy at the corner garage--anyone you know who works on cars or trucks.

This discount code expires on August 3, 2014; so don't wait!

 

I think the Wikipedia article at the link below is accurate... From 1999-2006 the Ford Thunderbird, Lincoln LS and Jaguar S-Type shared the same Ford DEW98 platform. I have driven all three and their suspensions are all tuned quite differently:

Lincoln LS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The Jaguar X350 was an all-new design:

Jaguar XJ (X350) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am not aware of any Ford vehicle that shares the same aluminum structure as the X350, although you will find plenty of components in an X350 that were made by Ford or one of its former divisions/suppliers (FoMoCo, Visteon, etc.).

Cheers!

Don

 

Yes Don you are right, several cars using the same platform can have different suspension tunings. Ok, so maybe it technically isn't listed as being on the same platform. They say it is all new, is that because it is aluminum instead of steal, and it is bigger, ok so they stretched out the design and call it all new. They dont want you to know it is just a modified version on a previous design maybe. You may be 100% correct and it is all new, but I am EXTREMELY skeptical in the "all new" part of it. I can't find a platform designation for the x350 anywhere, doesn't that seem strange to you? Maybe I should have worded it different, it uses the same "architecture".

Yea, plenty of components interchange between the DEW98 platform and the xj, so closely that the radiator is interchangeable because the front core support and front frame rail are almost identical, and so close that the bolt in sub frames look like they can be bolted in place of each other, and if the sub-frame nearly bolts in place, the structures of the rest of the frame and under-body are awfully identical don't you think, coincidence I think not. I attached some pictures, one from a Lincoln LS and one from a x350, they are almost identical, same suspension, control arms, sway bar, same diff mounting, and even the exhaust hanger is the exact same. Its all new because it is aluminum instead of steel. It is all new because every single part is new, however many of the parts may be new, they are just a modified versions of previous designs in my opinion. In person, underneath of them, you can barely tell they are different cars.

Think of it this way, we all know how many cars share the same platform right. Usually 3 or 4 cars use a particular platform for roughly 5-7 years. That is what it takes for that platform to pay for itself and have a few years of profitability because the research, design, testing, and certifications, warranty costs, and advertisements, cost so much. Now, would Ford have spent 6-7 Billion dollars to develop a completely different platform to use in only 1 very low volume car? It absolutely wouldn't make any practical business or financial sense. And to make things more expensive, they designed it out of aluminum which cost more to produce and a lot more to design, research, test ect. and not to mention they made it with brand new sophisticated technologies, again soaring the development cost. The cost to design a regular car from ground up is 6 Billion dollars or more. (source aol autos) And this isn't a regular car so ground up cost would have been substantially more. So typically a car company gets a total of 5 years times 3 car models so effectively 15 model years to recover the development cost of a platform. Do you think Ford would build a car that could only recover 5 model years of income from? Did Ford purposely build a car that it was going to loose money on? It is very possible, they have done that before. Car companies have built several cars before that were massive flops that they lost a ton of money on. I am just a skeptic.

And Don, don't take anything I put here too serious, I enjoy having a good discussion about cars with other like minded and educated car enthusiast like yourself!! Keeps us all on our toes, whether we have different opinion or not

 

I tried the Seafoam, first introducing 8 oz. through the brake booster line into the engine. The engine didn't hesitate in the slightest as I poured it in. I let it sit about 15 minutes. It didn't smoke at start when idling, and the only way I got any white smoke to come out the exhaust was when I gunned it to accelerate on the road. I got white plumes about 3 times only.

So later in the day I did another 8 oz. in the same manner with the exact same results. My engine light hasn't gone off, but maybe it needs to cycle through (since my OBDII scanner doesn't reset this code, although it resets codes in other vehicles), and then I can see whether the code returns.

I was expecting much more smoke, etc. Should I pour a whole can (16 oz.) in at once?

 

we used to use sea foam with the engine running and having it sucked thru a vacuum line. You had to monitor it and it would make the engine cough and stumble (on 4 cylinders) but it sure did spit some black junk out the tailpipe, enough that you'd have to clean up the area behind it.

mr beachy, you don't want to pour too much in; a chance of hydrolocking the engine. Remember, air compresses, fluid doesn't (well, not much)...so if too much got in one cylinder....

 

So that's what I did--suck it in through a vacuum line. I'm just saying that it didn't do much, which seems odd. Maybe everything's pretty clean inside?

 

kbeachy, DON'T pour in seamfoam while the engine is not running. It will hydro-lock the engine as others have pointed out and that can be really bad.

On a plus side, we have a seafoam rep that stops at my work and always does my cars for me as a thank you for helping him go out on sales call in the area. However I have never had my 04 xjr at work when he stopped in, and I have wanted to do it since I bought the car, so guess what..........you encouraged me to just do it myself Some of you wondered what it should look like so I took a video!!

Now I decided to do the can ss-14, the can with the red tube instead of the sf-14 which is just the can with crew on/off cap for 2 reasons.

1. My car is the supercharged model and I wanted to also clean out the inter-coolers air chambers as they can build up with film insides and loose their efficiency, and the supercharger itself for the same reason so I did the hose in the intake where the bellow slides on.

2. I couldn't get the vacuum line out of the brake booster. I was afraid of breaking off the connector in the rubber grommet of the booster. STOP while I am ahead lol. And the vacuum line, at least on mine is tiny.

So my car has 81k miles on it now. I don't see anywhere in the records I have about any cleanings being done from the dealer. My car runs perfect with no issues or check engine light on. The first video the car was already running as I had it up to temp already and running 1800rpms. You can see about 1:20 into the video the smoke starting to come out of the exhaust. I cut the time short as the wind was trying to kill me and blowing the smoke and fumes back inside the shop making it hard to breath. In the second video, I waited 5 minutes and started the car, then gave it several good revs and you see see the amount of smoke you should expect to see from this type of injection through the intake. Usually the vacuum port injection produces a lot more smoke.

First Video:
Second Video:
P.S. sorry half of a video is upside down, i dropped my phone and must have screwed up the accelerometer.

 

pcar00 -
Looks like an effective application. Just for the record, I put in half a can each time through the vacuum line of the brake booster while the car was running. I just pulled the grommet itself out of the brake booster instead of disconnecting the vacuum line from the grommet. I left the car idling normally at about 1,000 rpms. I didn't get any smoke while inducing, either time. Maybe it needed to be idling faster?

 

Try the method I used, the can with the tube and go into the throttle intake where the rubber air intake hose is attached. Maybe this would yield better results as I stated my brake booster hose it tiny, maybe not enough is going in fast enough? Also with this method you use the entire can at one time, just keep spraying until the can is empty. It took about 3 minutes to empty the can. Bit of advise, I kept trying to shake the can every 20 sec or so to see when it was empty, be careful as several times I pulled the hose off the can while holding the nozzle down and sprayed myself with the sea foam.

You NEED to have the car run at least 1500rpms as the sea foam instructions (copied from their website, listed below) state it needs this to be able to atomize and it wont evenly distribute to all cylinders so it can't work. If you don't get smoke, it isn't working.

1. Warm up engine and turn off all accessories.
2. Shut engine off.
   • DO NOT use in enclosed area, make sure exhaust is well ventilated
   • DO NOT use a scan tool to increase RPM via the air by-pass valve
   • DO NOT spray Sea Foam Spray Top Engine Cleaner and Lube into the mass airflow Sensor
3. With the vehicle in park or neutral and parking brake engaged start engine and increase idle speed 500 to 1000 RPM above factory idle specification. Increasing engine RPM is important for the following reasons:
   • The Sea Foam Spray Top Engine Cleaner and Lube must be evenly distributed
   • The Sea Foam Spray Top Engine Cleaner and Lube must fully atomize
   • The Sea Foam Spray Top Engine Cleaner and Lube must pass through the throttle body, not the air by-pass
4. Find a method to hold engine RPM steady as this application takes approximately 5 minutes
5. After the entire can of Sea Foam Spray Top Engine Cleaner and Lube has been used, stop spray, return engine to normal idle speed and shut off engine.
6. Remove cleaning tube from throttle body and reattach air inlet boot to throttle body and tighten clamp.
7. Let vehicle sit about 5 minutes then restart in a well-ventilated area, as exhaust may be extreme for a short time. Road test, by driving aggressively to remove any remaining deposit build up. REPEAT SEA FOAM TREATMENT AS NECESSARY.

 

I decided to replace the O2 sensors and the cat to hopefully get rid of this problem without more dragging on and on.

RockAuto has the best prices on the sensors and the Eastern Catalytic direct fit cat. In fact the price on the cat is outstanding at only $222, beating all other competitors I could find by at least $50.

So I'm going to try to do the work myself. The O2 sensors are easy, as I've already had them off. It remains to be seen how stubborn the cat is to get off. Two bolts on one end and a clamp on the other.

 

Hi pcar00,

I was studying my copy of the Jaguar 2004 New Model Year Introduction / Service Training Course, and page 2-2 of that publication states that the X350 structure "...is a riveted and bonded aluminum monocoque structure...." It shows a line illustration of the body, bulkheads and passenger compartment floor as one bonded structure.

I just spent some time comparing body parts diagrams for the S-Type and X350, and what is interesting is that the X350 body part diagrams show rivets required for replacing most of the structural body components, while the S-Type parts diagrams do not show rivets.

I agree with you that it would be natural for Jaguar to continue identical or improved versions of bolt-on components such as suspension subframes, shock/spring assemblies, radiators, engines, etc. But from what I can tell by comparing the S-Type and X350 construction, there are significant differences, not just the use of aluminum vs. steel.

According to the Wiki on the Ford DEW platform, Tata continued its use after purchasing Jaguar from Ford. In addition to the S-Type, Lincoln LS and Ford Thunderbird, the 2008- XF reportedly uses the DEW platform, but the X350 is not listed:

Ford DEW platform - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


BTW, I should have mentioned earlier that the LS I drove was very loosely suspended in Lincoln fashion, and not pleasant at all. However, the Ford Thunderbird I've driven quite a bit, and it is a really nice car with a great ride for touring and the 300hp V8 gives it plenty of get-up-and-go. The S-Type suspension is even better controlled and gives the impression of less unsprung weight.

Cheers,

Don

 

Today I put on the new catalytic converter along with two new oxygen sensors. You never know what won't want to come apart when you're working with the original parts on a 10 year old vehicle that has 177k on it!

Sure enough, first off the rear clamp was rust-frozen solid. It's a 1" wide band clamp that has 2 spot welds onto the exhaust pipe. I ended up cutting and breaking it off and using 2 standard U-bolt clamps in its place.

Most problematic, however, were the two upper bolts attaching the cat's flange to the manifold exhaust pipe. Repeatedly soaking them with PB Blaster got one off but not the other. So I used a propane torch alternately with quickly cooling it and re-spraying with the PB. It finally broke loose too, but I was really worried that the stud might break, and I'd have to drill it out.

The must-have tool that I bought specifically for this job was a 1/2" drive swivel impact universal joint from Craftsman that provides up to a 28 degree flex angle. The upper stud/nut on the cat flange is at such an angle that there's not enough clearance for a ratchet extension. Hence the universal joint that allowed me to put the extension on at an angle. The universal joint needed to be impact too, because of the torque necessary to turn the nut off. It did absolutely what it was supposed to.

Dropping the cat and raising the new one in place took a lot of twists and turns too. I used a pipe wrench to turn the old one back and forth where it was fit into the exhaust pipe in order to work it out. Two new nuts for the flange mount got it all put back together. Then I installed the new O2 sensors.

After a couple test drives the engine light has gone off. Now I need to see if it stays off for good or throws the P0420 code again; it's hard to imagine this hasn't fixed the problem.

All the parts cost me around $375, so I'm real pleased with that considering a new Jag cat runs around $1,500, and the Jag O2 sensors run around $250-280 a piece. The Eastern Catalytic direct fit cat went on beautifully. It comes with a 5 yr/50k mile warranty. I put on Denso O2 sensors. Best prices came from RockAuto.

 

I forgot to mention that the old cat sounded like a baby's rattle when I shook it. So from what I understand about how bad cat's act, no doubt it was bad inside.

 

Hi, thanks for this great thread.
i have the same issues on my Jaguar 03 X350 3.0 V6
I had some oil losses, which are now fixed and a lpg system liquid propane injection.
In two days a cat cleaner will arrive, which I have to put into the gas tank 1:200. Additionally I will put brake cleaner into the intake manifold, to clean last oil debris out of it (before I have changed the PCV valve and saw some oil in the intake. In my opinion too much).
I should than have the same results as with seafoam.

 

Greenline just ok, red line indicates defective cat, test test works when hot, but O2 test is needed to rule exactly out

LPG settings are wrong on my car: left side gasoline operation, in the middle log switch over, and than gasoline again. For sure, system can not work. Mil stays off on gasoline

Very good summary of p0420 origim