Tarheal - even very affordable – my local jag dealers will just not do it (only with the orig. jag fluid 50/liter when I pretended it did not shift well).

I will have a local shop do the flush, but he literally does not know anything about the transmission - so we will do it together. Well at least I found one that at all was willing to do the flush (only one). He believes it is best to clean the pan from all gunk and change the filter before flushing so nothing would be lodge somewhere when flushing - sound good to me (he knows now the pan is a part of the filter and can just be replaced )
Thanks Stevetech for sharing the price and the pan torque details- pity MA is so far away from you.
I will have the whole thing done, 2 weekends from now, it has been so hard for me to find someone that are willing to do the flush so I do not want to a little bit down the road. We will drain the fluid, drop and replace pan +filter, refill temporary with the drained/old fluid and flush with the new fluid Redline D4 – I will let you guys know how it goes.
I will measure the temp directly in the fluid – Is it necessary to plug and every few minutes open to read the fluid temp? What about just filling the transmission to the top, leave the filler hole open with the engine running and measure the temp as the trans pushes out the fluid as it heats up and when the temp reaches 40C then plug it?
Thanks
MTW

 

Tarheal, the wifey wanted to take the kiddies to Disney...hmmm that is a thought!

MTW, I would replace the sleeve as well. Only $13.00 from ZF.

 

joycesjag - I want to change the sleeve as well - I just forgot to write it - I hope I will remember to install it

 

Let me offer some info about setting the correct fluid level if I could.

Everything about this process is based on the premise that hydraulic fluid expands as it's temperature rises. If you know that, everything else is pretty intuitive.

1. When the engine is off (Transmission not circulating fluid) all of the fluid ends up in the pan (with the exception of the 3.xx qts that settle in the torque converter).
2. If you drain everything out of the pan with the engine off (and if the level was correct to start), you will yield approx. 7.5 qts.

3. When you are replacing the 7.5 qts. through the filler port after a pan/filter change with the engine off, you can only get about 4.5 qts. in. If you just capped it up at that point you'd be about 3 qts low.

4. Once the engine is started, the level (from the 4.5 qts put in) drops severely, because the trans takes that much circulating through it.

5. At this point, you can easily add close to 4 qts (engine is running, but the fluid is cold).

6. With all approx. 4 qts in (still cold fluid), you temporarily cap it, then shift through all the gears, slowly, stopping at each interval R N D then back N R P.

7. Now go back to the plug, remove it and start to monitor fluid temperature. I use a direct temp fluid probe on a digital thermometer. I have a special probe shaped like a ...?... that I instert in the filler hole.

8. Now comes the premise part - as the temperature of the fluid rises, it expands. Of the second 4 qts that were added while running cold, some of this fluid will begin to drip out as it expands.

9. Fluid will continue to drip as temp rises, when 40 deg C is reached, that is the ideal temperature, and the level at which the filler hole was engineered into the side of the casing. Simply remove the probe at this point and cap. About 1/2 qt. of fluid will have dripped out.

10. If you exceed 40 C, you're OK, but as you approach 50 C, so much more fluid will have dripped out because of expansion as to leave the trans too short of total fluid needed.

11. If 50 C is reached, then you would have to cap, shut off the engine, let cool down below 35 C, start the engine, refill some fluid (close to a quart) and start over working the temp back up to 40 C.

The temperature does not rise quickly, so there is plenty of time to react to "things". Once I get all the fluid in, go around to shift gears come back, remove the plug and start monitoring temps, I still have about ten to fifteen minutes before 40 C is reached.

Hope this helps.

 

stevetech, you are da' man. Very nice (and simple) explanation! If I may cut & copy this to the S boys, I am sure they would love to read it, if they haven't wandered over here yet.

Thank you

 

steve, Im sure youve done this plenty of times. But I personally did this 4 or 5 times, and Ive never used 7.5qts. Just my last time I have 5 individual quarts and have very little of the 5th qt leftover. and thats not counting the spillage. IDK something wrong ?

CCC with allowing alot of drip time with the pan off managed to get around 6qts out and about 5.5 in IIRC.

 

Strateloss,

Something is not right. 7.5 qts is what the pan holds at a standstill with 3 something qts in the converter. We're talking the 6HP26, correct? Not the 5HP24? Because 5 qts (approx.) is what is yielded in the 5 speed drain.

You can even check the JTIS under the transmission repair procedure or the ZF refill procedure. It specifically calls out 8 qts for the refill with a pan removal only drain (not torque converter). 8 qts is the correct refill quantity because you are actually overfilling by 1/2 qt (fluid cold) and expanding out (spilling 1/2 qt, approx.) at the correct temperature.

I've personally measured drain fluid a couple of times on these boxes. If I just pull the drain plug I get approx. 6.5 qts. Then another qt. will come when I remove the pan and let it sit as some fluid continues to seep out. Better than a 3/4 qt sits in the filter and pan if the pan doesn't come off.

I can offer one possible reason - I've read that some take the pan or case temperature and NOT the fluid temp. The fluid would have reached 40C and the crossover 50C far sooner than the heat is transferred to the pan or casing. That would mean the trans would be seriously underfilled. That is why I insist on fluid temp when I do these and I consistently get 8 qts in cold and spill about a half qt. at temp.

 

Strateloss,

Sorry for an additional post, but I had a couple more thoughts/questions. Have you ever had the pan off, or are you just doing drain/refills? The next question - How level are you getting the box when draining and refilling?

Without a pan removal - that definitely accounts for one of the missing three quarts. If the pan has never been off and there is any sludge in the bottom, that is also lifting the fluid level.

I might be **** retentive here, but I actually use a bubble level in two directions when I have the pan removed. I make adjustments in my lift until I get that level. This is to ensure I have the transmission pan on a level plane when I reassemble and refill. If the transmission were cantered slightly backward and slightly biased to the rightside, that would seriously impact fluid level, even if the correct procedure were followed.

 

When I flushed mine a couple months a go, I just drained and refilled. I used a 5 liters bottle and 1 liter bottle of moddifier. I still had about a liter left. I do believe that 7.5 would come out if you get every drop out. The fluid is coated on all the parts, in the valve body, cooling lines, etc. I also have a 04 XJR. JTIS I think states about 10 liters if the system is dry. 3.5 in converter, 5 drained, .5 in lines and cooler 1 every where else....sounds right to me.

 

Thanks Stevetech. You bet it helped -You have managed to put it exceptionally clear – the issue about how long it takes for the fluid to heat up is excellent for people that have not worked on this AT before.
MTW

 

Stevetech,
I do have one question I hope you can help with. Are the pan bolt on a year 2006 - Torx 27 or 40? – I know the new ones are Torx 40.
Thanks
MTW

 

The newest replacement bolts I bought just a few weeks ago I'm pretty sure are #30 torx, replacing #27s. I don't recall ever seeing a #40. I cannot say about what is in an 06 for certain, just guessing they'll be #27s.

 

I havent removed the pan yet, I will next fluid change at my next OCI.

Everytime I drained it about 6qts came out, when I was using Castrol on every refill I used a whole 1 gallon jug and 1 quart. That was what it took in ice cold so the fluid temp does not affect it.

I measure the fluid itself, but BRUTAL noted that measuring the pan with an infrared gun is only a few degrees off when hit right near the draining plug.

And on the PDF's provided by ZF they put the fluid capacity at over 11quarts no ? plus the cooling lines. Not that it matters though.

Once the fluid stops flowing out hard, I just let it drip for 5 minutes or so. I havent left it longer.

And you did raise 2 good points about the pain. The first being that it can hold sludge on the bottom raising the fluid level. The other being the filter hold some fluid. Thanks for that, now I know to get more then 6 quarts when I replace the pan next time around. Thanks bud.

 

very little of the 6th*** quart left over.

 

Thanks Stevetech
I got the Torx 40 from these websites
http://www.tsgparts.net/index.php?p=...d=51&parent=38
http://www.zftranspart.com/index.php...id=12&parent=6
But I have also read Torx 30 from CCC tread on the s-type forum.
MTW

 

I know I have some in my garage if I can find them I'll check on the torx 40. Maybe I just imagined they were 30s. They're defninitely not the 27s.

I've never removed the newer screws on any transmissions I've done, always "unlucky" to get the 27s. BTW - always put the new ones in with anti-seize compound. If I ever get lucky enough to remove ones I've installed, they should come out a whole lot easier.

Best,

 

MTW - You are right.

I just found my supply of pan screws and they're 40s. So, they went from 27s to 40s not 30s. Sorry for previous incorrect info.

 

Stevetech – no worries - thanks for taking the time to confirm it!
MTW

 

Hi all
I finally got the filter changed + transmission flushed it toke the mechanic long to get the parts home. I used Redline D4. I dont feel any change in the shift's barely noticable as usually - so very good. The old fluid still smelled good more or less as new - car has 54k on it. There were no indication of "debris" in the pan something that would indicate anything in the filter. Next time - in 50k I think I will just flush the transmission without the filter. The mechanic used 8qts to fill and set the level and afterwards 12qts for the flush so the total cost was close to 700. It was still the right thing to do for me and I think I will appreciate it in the future. The bolt on my 2006 was Torx40 and the replacements was Torx40 - it was no problem to get them out and they were barely corroded and I would have used them again if it was not because I already had the new ones. When setting the level we ended up collecting the fluid dripping out of the transmission in a cup and when the temp was 40C it was plugged - it was easy, thanks to all the info I have gotten here!
MTW