Found a way for a 6HP26 to 6R80 swap! Lightning shifts, and 1000hp capability!
#41
08-01-2022 | 01:31 PM
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From: Cluj, Transylvania, Romania, Europe
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#42
12-12-2022 | 02:45 AM
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Advance Adapters
Hi everybody,
One reason our cars are slow for their power/weight is the dreadfuly slow shift times, esp. 1-2 which takes 800ms, that's almost a whole second!
For the last 5 years I have been searching for someone to do something to our 6HP26, either via the BMW route, or the Australian Nizpro way. Neither works, and nobody is willing to make a tune for us.
The 6R80 is the 6HP26's beefed up cousin, and the '11-'14 models have an external electronic control, which is compatible with the usshift quick6 aftermarket controller.
Trouble is that the transmission is wired through the car's CAN, so any swap must make the transmission talk to the other systems & engine through the CAN. That's where I thought it was a dead end.
However, last week I found two things out, which suddenly make the swap possible:
1. There now is a PLUG-AND-PLAY standalone engine management system for the supercharged 4.2 V8 which talks to the car's sensors, so everything from ABS to the dash cluster works like stock.
https://www.p-v-e.co.uk/projects/plu...et-ecu-system/
Caldoofy told me about them a month ago, and initially I was sad to find out this was made for a manual transmission conversion, and to me, to put a manual in is unacceptable. That's when again I thought it was a dead end.
2. The breaktbrough came when I watched a 6R80 swap in a 5spd auto Mustang 3v with the usshift controller. It seems the controller works with an engine tune made for a manual transmission! At the minimum for it to work, it only needs a TPS signal! speed & rpm inputs are optional.
So basically you install the plug&play ECU above, and you can swap in the 6R80 with absolutely no errors, and everything works! Just tap the tps wire from the TB!
The only remaining aspect now is the mechanical part of the conversion. This is where I need the board's help.
Do any of you fine ladies and gentlemen know of a shop which would perform the swap? There needs to be a bellhousing adapter plate custom made, because the jag 6hp26 & engine has a different bolt pattern than the 6R80, the converter & flexplate must be made to match, the 3 bolt output from the 6HP26 is different from the 4 bolt on the 6R80, so something must be done to the 2 piece OEM driveshaft.
I am from Europe, but chances are if somebody can do this it's our friends from across the pond.
I am ready to buy fitment parts from the US (i.e. block, 6hp26 & 6r80, driveshaft and whatever else is needed) and have them sent to the US based shop, but if anyone is interested to do the swap and have their car at the shop, I am prepared to cover the first $1000 of the costs!
The knowledge gained would help us get the custom parts made in series, and they could be sent as a kit anywhere in the world.
If there are are no "volunteers", I can settle for any lead as to which competent shop could do the mechanical swap with parts provided by me, or them.
I hope the community can help me, and my project! A KB TS 4.2 with a standalone, caldoofy's headers& cats, and the 6R80 with instant shifts would give any supercar a run for its money!
One reason our cars are slow for their power/weight is the dreadfuly slow shift times, esp. 1-2 which takes 800ms, that's almost a whole second!
For the last 5 years I have been searching for someone to do something to our 6HP26, either via the BMW route, or the Australian Nizpro way. Neither works, and nobody is willing to make a tune for us.
The 6R80 is the 6HP26's beefed up cousin, and the '11-'14 models have an external electronic control, which is compatible with the usshift quick6 aftermarket controller.
Trouble is that the transmission is wired through the car's CAN, so any swap must make the transmission talk to the other systems & engine through the CAN. That's where I thought it was a dead end.
However, last week I found two things out, which suddenly make the swap possible:
1. There now is a PLUG-AND-PLAY standalone engine management system for the supercharged 4.2 V8 which talks to the car's sensors, so everything from ABS to the dash cluster works like stock.
https://www.p-v-e.co.uk/projects/plu...et-ecu-system/
Caldoofy told me about them a month ago, and initially I was sad to find out this was made for a manual transmission conversion, and to me, to put a manual in is unacceptable. That's when again I thought it was a dead end.
2. The breaktbrough came when I watched a 6R80 swap in a 5spd auto Mustang 3v with the usshift controller. It seems the controller works with an engine tune made for a manual transmission! At the minimum for it to work, it only needs a TPS signal! speed & rpm inputs are optional.
So basically you install the plug&play ECU above, and you can swap in the 6R80 with absolutely no errors, and everything works! Just tap the tps wire from the TB!
The only remaining aspect now is the mechanical part of the conversion. This is where I need the board's help.
Do any of you fine ladies and gentlemen know of a shop which would perform the swap? There needs to be a bellhousing adapter plate custom made, because the jag 6hp26 & engine has a different bolt pattern than the 6R80, the converter & flexplate must be made to match, the 3 bolt output from the 6HP26 is different from the 4 bolt on the 6R80, so something must be done to the 2 piece OEM driveshaft.
I am from Europe, but chances are if somebody can do this it's our friends from across the pond.
I am ready to buy fitment parts from the US (i.e. block, 6hp26 & 6r80, driveshaft and whatever else is needed) and have them sent to the US based shop, but if anyone is interested to do the swap and have their car at the shop, I am prepared to cover the first $1000 of the costs!
The knowledge gained would help us get the custom parts made in series, and they could be sent as a kit anywhere in the world.
If there are are no "volunteers", I can settle for any lead as to which competent shop could do the mechanical swap with parts provided by me, or them.
I hope the community can help me, and my project! A KB TS 4.2 with a standalone, caldoofy's headers& cats, and the 6R80 with instant shifts would give any supercar a run for its money!
Hey mate! Was excited to read up on your project. I realize this thread is a year old and I'm curious of your results? If you haven't already tried, give these guys an inquiry with details of your project and they'll help you out. Best of luck!!
https://www.advanceadapters.com/?gcl...UaAiVoEALw_wcB
#43
12-12-2022 | 05:23 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 132
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From: Cluj, Transylvania, Romania, Europe
Actually I am waiting for the valvebody to be ready to post an update.
As a teaser, the hard parts build in the 6hp26 / 6r80 aftermarket internals hybrid is pretty much done, so is the twin clutch modified torque converter. The valvebody needs to be rebuilt with the two transgo kits, then Cambo and MoscowLeaper will do the TCM reprogramming, and then it'll be sent out to me.
Hopefully it won't be long.
As a teaser, the hard parts build in the 6hp26 / 6r80 aftermarket internals hybrid is pretty much done, so is the twin clutch modified torque converter. The valvebody needs to be rebuilt with the two transgo kits, then Cambo and MoscowLeaper will do the TCM reprogramming, and then it'll be sent out to me.
Hopefully it won't be long.
#44
12-14-2022 | 05:17 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,243
Likes: 172
From: NYC
#45
03-12-2023 | 06:06 AM
Actually I am waiting for the valvebody to be ready to post an update.
As a teaser, the hard parts build in the 6hp26 / 6r80 aftermarket internals hybrid is pretty much done, so is the twin clutch modified torque converter. The valvebody needs to be rebuilt with the two transgo kits, then Cambo and MoscowLeaper will do the TCM reprogramming, and then it'll be sent out to me.
Hopefully it won't be long.
As a teaser, the hard parts build in the 6hp26 / 6r80 aftermarket internals hybrid is pretty much done, so is the twin clutch modified torque converter. The valvebody needs to be rebuilt with the two transgo kits, then Cambo and MoscowLeaper will do the TCM reprogramming, and then it'll be sent out to me.
Hopefully it won't be long.
Any update on the build as of yet? Got myself an STR so looking forward to the updates that are to come.
#46
03-13-2023 | 05:06 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
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From: Cluj, Transylvania, Romania, Europe
Deni @ T&D wrote me to let me know the transmission is complete. Shipping was 3000AUD so we are looking for alternatives, in the mean time I made a last minute decision to go with a finned Aluminium pan, it has arrived yesterday, and will be fitted probably this week. Then, if everything is OK, we'll have it shipped the next.
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#48
03-15-2023 | 06:19 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
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From: Cluj, Transylvania, Romania, Europe
One made in Australia
https://www.planetparts.com.au/ford-...ission-alloy-o
Seems the solution to our transmission upgrade problems lies not in Europe, nor the US, but Down Under. Luckily both Cambo (software side), and T&D (hardware side) are near Sydney. The Aussies made the most out of the 6hp26 with their turbo Ford 6s, so they are the go-to guys for us.
On a mild performance-oriented build (say just Cambo's quick shift software, that would most likely snap even lightly modified XJRs), I think just the 6R80 shaft modification, along with some performance frictions would suffice (perhaps even the shaft alone?). I think one of the reasons my input shaft has survived 500rwhp was the woefully slow shift time of 800ms, compared to the 250ms the 6hp26 is capable of. Turn the speed of the shift to quick, and the shock is much greater.
Only trouble would be shipping your transmission over there & back, or doing like I did, and buying a core.
Perhaps somebody would learn to do this in Europe also...
https://www.planetparts.com.au/ford-...ission-alloy-o
Seems the solution to our transmission upgrade problems lies not in Europe, nor the US, but Down Under. Luckily both Cambo (software side), and T&D (hardware side) are near Sydney. The Aussies made the most out of the 6hp26 with their turbo Ford 6s, so they are the go-to guys for us.
On a mild performance-oriented build (say just Cambo's quick shift software, that would most likely snap even lightly modified XJRs), I think just the 6R80 shaft modification, along with some performance frictions would suffice (perhaps even the shaft alone?). I think one of the reasons my input shaft has survived 500rwhp was the woefully slow shift time of 800ms, compared to the 250ms the 6hp26 is capable of. Turn the speed of the shift to quick, and the shock is much greater.
Only trouble would be shipping your transmission over there & back, or doing like I did, and buying a core.
Perhaps somebody would learn to do this in Europe also...
Last edited by Matei Dima; 03-15-2023 at 06:42 AM.
#49
03-17-2023 | 02:53 PM
Member
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 62
Likes: 12
From: Chicago
One made in Australia
https://www.planetparts.com.au/ford-...ission-alloy-o
Seems the solution to our transmission upgrade problems lies not in Europe, nor the US, but Down Under. Luckily both Cambo (software side), and T&D (hardware side) are near Sydney. The Aussies made the most out of the 6hp26 with their turbo Ford 6s, so they are the go-to guys for us.
On a mild performance-oriented build (say just Cambo's quick shift software, that would most likely snap even lightly modified XJRs), I think just the 6R80 shaft modification, along with some performance frictions would suffice (perhaps even the shaft alone?). I think one of the reasons my input shaft has survived 500rwhp was the woefully slow shift time of 800ms, compared to the 250ms the 6hp26 is capable of. Turn the speed of the shift to quick, and the shock is much greater.
Only trouble would be shipping your transmission over there & back, or doing like I did, and buying a core.
Perhaps somebody would learn to do this in Europe also...
https://www.planetparts.com.au/ford-...ission-alloy-o
Seems the solution to our transmission upgrade problems lies not in Europe, nor the US, but Down Under. Luckily both Cambo (software side), and T&D (hardware side) are near Sydney. The Aussies made the most out of the 6hp26 with their turbo Ford 6s, so they are the go-to guys for us.
On a mild performance-oriented build (say just Cambo's quick shift software, that would most likely snap even lightly modified XJRs), I think just the 6R80 shaft modification, along with some performance frictions would suffice (perhaps even the shaft alone?). I think one of the reasons my input shaft has survived 500rwhp was the woefully slow shift time of 800ms, compared to the 250ms the 6hp26 is capable of. Turn the speed of the shift to quick, and the shock is much greater.
Only trouble would be shipping your transmission over there & back, or doing like I did, and buying a core.
Perhaps somebody would learn to do this in Europe also...
#50
03-18-2023 | 05:41 PM
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Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 132
Likes: 69
From: Cluj, Transylvania, Romania, Europe
I think best would be to contact him here. You need a phisical adaptor for thecommunication with the trans, and perhaps the most problematic now, a scanmatik interface from Russia. As I got one just as the war started, I can help whoever can get to me in Transylvania. Or perhaps Cambo can get them more easily, and you can buy them from him? No matter the answer, best would be to contact him directly.
Last edited by Matei Dima; 03-18-2023 at 06:02 PM.
#51
04-24-2024 | 04:14 AM
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From: Salzhausen
#52
04-24-2024 | 08:36 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
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From: Northern Virginia and Hong Kong
Those "slow" shifts were not accidental. Aside from not kicking the occupants in the spine, they reduce shock loading on the rest of the running gear, downline. Those components were, in turn, selected according to the stress they were expected to endure. Substitute what amounts to a hammer-blow for a gentler clutch? Discover their stress limits the expensive way. Not with a "1000 HP". With the substantial torque and HP you already HAVE.
Have a look under the vehicle. Measure the diameter of the half shafts carrying power to the rear wheels. How much "reserve" for added stress d'you suppose is available?
It left the factory a well-balanced critter. Very.
Designed and tested by teams of folk who had done it more than just the one time. To get good performance and lesser mass, they pushed many limits. But not TOO far.
What do you know, now, that they did NOT know, then?
What happens when you mess with that community of the competent is usually accompanied by the loud sound of money being sucked out of the room .....at a Combat Speed.
To the good, you soon get to drive some other motorcar, too. Necessity thing.
Good job there are too many of 'em on-planet to break all at once!
Last edited by Thermite; 04-24-2024 at 11:21 AM.
#53
04-25-2024 | 11:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 2024
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From: Salzhausen
The XKR-S is 12 years old and I am 38. Which makes me oder I guess.
I love the car but I live in Germany and I actually use the power on the Autobahn- almost daily. It might be substantial an enough for some, but I would be happy to have more. The discussion why that is needed is a bit philosophic. Why would anyone need an older Jaguar instead of an efficient VW Golf Diesel? They have substantial torque that would enough for any normal person. So that discussion is pointless in my view. Who decides and defines what is enough or substantial enough for somebody else? If you are happy with the power, torque and transmission of your XKR-S - great, enjoy it.
I am planing on installing a TVS2300 supercharger. Currently the torque is limited at around 800nm. But with the larger supercharger I would guess the transmission would need changes done to it as well.
Also I am not looking for any bang-shift gear changes nor do I believe that I "know" anything now that they knew back then, but from what we read hear there is quite a bit about the transmission that can be improved.
I love the car but I live in Germany and I actually use the power on the Autobahn- almost daily. It might be substantial an enough for some, but I would be happy to have more. The discussion why that is needed is a bit philosophic. Why would anyone need an older Jaguar instead of an efficient VW Golf Diesel? They have substantial torque that would enough for any normal person. So that discussion is pointless in my view. Who decides and defines what is enough or substantial enough for somebody else? If you are happy with the power, torque and transmission of your XKR-S - great, enjoy it.
I am planing on installing a TVS2300 supercharger. Currently the torque is limited at around 800nm. But with the larger supercharger I would guess the transmission would need changes done to it as well.
Also I am not looking for any bang-shift gear changes nor do I believe that I "know" anything now that they knew back then, but from what we read hear there is quite a bit about the transmission that can be improved.
#54
04-25-2024 | 12:17 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 944
Likes: 228
From: Northern Virginia and Hong Kong
The XKR-S is 12 years old and I am 38. Which makes me oder I guess.
I love the car but I live in Germany and I actually use the power on the Autobahn- almost daily. It might be substantial an enough for some, but I would be happy to have more. The discussion why that is needed is a bit philosophic. Why would anyone need an older Jaguar instead of an efficient VW Golf Diesel? They have substantial torque that would enough for any normal person. So that discussion is pointless in my view. Who decides and defines what is enough or substantial enough for somebody else? If you are happy with the power, torque and transmission of your XKR-S - great, enjoy it.
I am planing on installing a TVS2300 supercharger. Currently the torque is limited at around 800nm. But with the larger supercharger I would guess the transmission would need changes done to it as well.
Also I am not looking for any bang-shift gear changes nor do I believe that I "know" anything now that they knew back then, but from what we read hear there is quite a bit about the transmission that can be improved.
I love the car but I live in Germany and I actually use the power on the Autobahn- almost daily. It might be substantial an enough for some, but I would be happy to have more. The discussion why that is needed is a bit philosophic. Why would anyone need an older Jaguar instead of an efficient VW Golf Diesel? They have substantial torque that would enough for any normal person. So that discussion is pointless in my view. Who decides and defines what is enough or substantial enough for somebody else? If you are happy with the power, torque and transmission of your XKR-S - great, enjoy it.
I am planing on installing a TVS2300 supercharger. Currently the torque is limited at around 800nm. But with the larger supercharger I would guess the transmission would need changes done to it as well.
Also I am not looking for any bang-shift gear changes nor do I believe that I "know" anything now that they knew back then, but from what we read hear there is quite a bit about the transmission that can be improved.
Transmission's cost reputation is better than the motor, so if I were back running the Autobahns as 'flasher" of lights rather than "flashee" being over-taken, I'd want a different marque entirely if it had to be over ten years old.
Your more expert drivers and Autobahn culture narrowly missed getting my then-only middle-aged *** thrown in a Virginia jail cell when I failed to re-adapt to US conditions leaving the airport.
Told the State Trooper I had just gotten off a plane from Germany where I had enjoyed a couple of thousand kilometers as my annual "stress relief". All of German-speaking Europe IS kinda tiny?
Fortunately, he was a GI, just back from two years in Germany, laughed, said:
"I hate to give up a legitimate bust at 81 in a 50 MPH zone, but I know exactly what you mean."
"Consider it your lucky night, and get on down the road.... at OUR posted speeds"
20 miles over the limit, and speed above 60 could get you a year and a day behind bars in Virginia at the time. NOW? Where I live, hard to even find a place traffic is light enough to ATTEMPT it if you wanted to risk it.
Screw the pooch on an Autobahn, be found at fault, "speed limit" won't make a damn, either.
It is anything BUT "free love" under German Law. And I knew that.
Diesels were fast enough. The Audi TT was for a fast run I had to make Zeurich-Campione and back, the Alfa 75, Northern Italia, & San Marino in winter, then playing the "airgap" games in Roman traffic.
Don't re-engineer the car.
Just learn its ways and make the best of it.... as-had. They are what they are. More than "good enough" and damned costly to alter, let alone "improve".
Whatever that is, it's a gift that carries further in a given day than.... bare feet.
Last edited by Thermite; 04-25-2024 at 12:46 PM.
#55
04-25-2024 | 05:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 167
Likes: 30
From: Phoenix
If you don't want to modify your car, don't. But why try to **** all over someone else that does? What does this whole conversation have to do with replacing a transmission with something the owner wants more than stock delivers?
Hey, if you pack more power into a vehicle than it was designed for, things might break! That's just part of modifying. If he breaks an axle, then he found the next weak spot and needs custom axles.
The original engineering is a whole series of compromises on compromises, it's not voodoo magic. We don't have LSDs stock because the engineer wasn't allowed to include them because Ford owned Aston Martin, would an LSD make the car worse?
Hey, if you pack more power into a vehicle than it was designed for, things might break! That's just part of modifying. If he breaks an axle, then he found the next weak spot and needs custom axles.
The original engineering is a whole series of compromises on compromises, it's not voodoo magic. We don't have LSDs stock because the engineer wasn't allowed to include them because Ford owned Aston Martin, would an LSD make the car worse?
#56
04-26-2024 | 02:00 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 944
Likes: 228
From: Northern Virginia and Hong Kong
If, perchance, you had forgotten? They are few, short, and nothing special by US Interstate standards.
And they are - from as far back as 40 years ago - crowded. With a mix of vehicles that runs at a wide range of speeds. Often very dangerously wide as to disparity size, mass, and maneuverability as well as in speeds. North Geman plain is easy. Flat, it is. Also has some right shiddy weather if you have to deal with it 12 months out of the year.
Dropping significant coin into this project, I'll presume his budget will stand.
Time on a lift, not the road, and more than just the one time, as well.
Passing local MOT/Equivalent?
- Transmission swap is probably undetectable/transparent.
- Adding a supercharger with attendent swap of ECU that is VIN-mapped could get more difficult w/r certifcations? He did say "Germany?"
Net performance enhancement where he can even utilize any difference?
Negligible. Count on that much.
Money would be better spent on a fast two-wheeler and good leathers for those nice fair-weather days. Or even upgraded brakes and gummier tires for the 'stock' 10 year-old Jaguar, replaced more often.
If he is to get his daily commute over-with sooner and more painlessly without nasty weather?
He'd have to emigrate to where the "Autobahn" was more than just the over-crowded remains of a 'legend' it has become.
Nothing against Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, or even Arizona's best "wide-opens". But if it's all the same?
I'd suggest Nevada!
Mind.. Appalachian two-lane blacktop, Colorado ... the Pacific Mountain ranges, US or Canada?
Can be more FUN!
German-speaking part of Europe alone has plenty of similar.
But I ain't for tellin' where!
Too crowded by half, already. Population-density thing.
Gotta save SOME of the 'good stuff' for gourmets in fast cars, not gourmands in articulated lorry's, half a city block long and traveling in "wolf packs" even so..
Last edited by Thermite; 04-26-2024 at 05:55 AM.
#57
04-26-2024 | 01:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 167
Likes: 30
From: Phoenix
I've spent a few weeks driving the Autobahn a few years ago, I appreciate the discipline the Germans have when it comes to driving. Don't pass on the right, move over after passing. It's refreshing.
It's also completely irrelevant to the topic of modifying one's personal property to taste.
Germany is pretty strict when it comes to vehicle modification, but then again so is California, and folks do it all the time anyway. However also completely irrelevant to the topic is how legal one's modifications are.
EightJagXKRS with the transmission swap, you might need help from the likes of Cambo. However since you have a supercharger and are replacing it with a larger one, I don't imagine there will be much in the way of tuning needed for it, the engine will see more air and should attempt to compensate by upping the fuel, however I'd highly recommend keeping an eye on the air/fuel mixture, maybe using an aftermarket wideband O2 sensor. If you go lean under boost, it's going to be an expensive day. A while ago there was a kit available (Avos, if memory serves correctly?) so I'd check with folks that have put larger blowers on to see if they had to do anything ECU or fuel wise over stock.
Good luck, happy modding!
It's also completely irrelevant to the topic of modifying one's personal property to taste.
Germany is pretty strict when it comes to vehicle modification, but then again so is California, and folks do it all the time anyway. However also completely irrelevant to the topic is how legal one's modifications are.
EightJagXKRS with the transmission swap, you might need help from the likes of Cambo. However since you have a supercharger and are replacing it with a larger one, I don't imagine there will be much in the way of tuning needed for it, the engine will see more air and should attempt to compensate by upping the fuel, however I'd highly recommend keeping an eye on the air/fuel mixture, maybe using an aftermarket wideband O2 sensor. If you go lean under boost, it's going to be an expensive day. A while ago there was a kit available (Avos, if memory serves correctly?) so I'd check with folks that have put larger blowers on to see if they had to do anything ECU or fuel wise over stock.
Good luck, happy modding!
#58
04-26-2024 | 02:20 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 944
Likes: 228
From: Northern Virginia and Hong Kong
But that's about the drivers, their commitment to constant alertness, good manners, and attitude .. not their cars. Not to forget that too many of those using it are neither German, nor comparably trained and cooperatively-mannered.
Then there are the dreadful traffic jams that have become a plague.
'nuf said.. Not s**ting on anybody.
I'd be all overjoyed if he were planning to build-up his car for Bergrennen..
That'll "put lead in your pencil"... even if it rattles when it comes out!!
Diverse feld of participants.. not enough Appalachians in big-block pickup trucks... but why not a Jaguar?
An Austin A35 would be......... too hard to believe.. but it happened!
Bit o' fun to play the game, win or not..
But our man in Germany has some OTHER challenges to overcome:
Matt, in Romania, who "pioneered" the conversion. was trying to sell his car.. over four years ago, and posted that he might have to UNDO his modifications to be better able to do.
Software was involved from "Moscow Leaper" and a nasty war has complicated his life, and not-only.
Last edited by Thermite; 04-27-2024 at 11:41 AM.
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