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Trying to determine if I have the latest Firmware in my transmission. Flashed it with SDD V1.30 but not sure if that just changes the calibrations. Transmission is surging when cold; and I have read there is a FW update to improve this. 2004 XJ8 Base.
I don't know what your answer is, but the 2004 does surge when cold. The torque converter engages, disengages, engages, disengages. I had a chance to buy a 2004 before I got my 2007, and that was a dealbreaker for that car. I experienced it on the test drive, researched it, told them not interested. it was still doing it some 15 minutes into my drive, so I don't know if it's really "when cold" or not.
Understood on the surging when cold. It was my understanding that Jaguar updated the firmware for the TCM tho help with that issue. I am trying to determine if the update is already flashed into my ECU or not. I updated the TCM with SDD but I’m not sure if that only changes the calibration info or whether there is a base level firmware update that also needs to be done.
you can see in the picture I included the TCM has a calibration rev (which I believe matches the update if did from SDD) and a ZF drive program number (which I think may be the code from the transmission mfg). Trying to determine if this is the latest or I need that updated with the improvement.
ideally someone who has had the dealer apply the update and can read it through SDD can shed some light on this for me.
I flashed TCM and ECU, but surging/hunting didn't change.
My dealer told me, that the change of the torque converter is required to get rid of it.
(to my knowledge, this behaviour was planed as feature to support warmup)
TCM adaptation is a big gain on shifting quality, as the adaptation seems to drift over time.
Surging/hunting appears only at a certain speedrange for a few minutes. In my case I need to drive 70km/h for 3minutes to produce the effects.
I don't know what your answer is, but the 2004 does surge when cold. The torque converter engages, disengages, engages, disengages. I had a chance to buy a 2004 before I got my 2007, and that was a dealbreaker for that car. I experienced it on the test drive, researched it, told them not interested. it was still doing it some 15 minutes into my drive, so I don't know if it's really "when cold" or not.
As a matter of interest my 2004 does not surge when cold or hot for that matter. I have driven it from as low as -30c without any noticeable surging.
Surging/hunting requires a special speed to become noticeable.
At certain hours, I cannot drive more then 40km/h for the first minutes, so I dont't notice surging.
If I can go up to 70km/h within 2 minutes, It's clearly there.
As a matter of interest my 2004 does not surge when cold or hot for that matter. I have driven it from as low as -30c without any noticeable surging.
The surging is not the car actually surging forward and dragging, back and forth, it's the torque converter locking and unlocking, causing the engine RPM to jump up and down by about 250 RPM. The actual drivability is constant, no head-snapping or anything actually felt in the driver's seat. It's perceptible, as an almost-shift, but just barely.
Not arguing, just ensuring you know what we mean by "surging." If yours doesn't do that torque convertor on/off thing, then somebody's worked on it in the past, most likely. I really don't know if it was all 2004s, or just early ones.
I don't think so. It shows as an RPM change up and down during steady speed cruising. The torque converter locks and unlocks in a seemingly never-ending cycle, and does it smoothly enough that almost the only indication is seeing the tach move up an down, and maybe hearing a change in engine note. How you drive doesn't matter because it happens at steady speed.
As a previous Jaguar Technician from 2000-07 and a current X350 and X358 owner I can tell you that the update will o ly work if the converter hasn't been driven like that for a long time. As well as fluid older then 6 years 60k miles. You will need to flash ecu and tcm as well as perform adaptation drive to tcm. If it goes away ur good, if it comes back or doesn't go away you need trans service and converter. Side note, make sure you have no vacuum leaks or bad MAF.
This is a "worked for me"; I am sure there are numerous others who will disagree vehemently. I own a 2004, with a VIN number lower than yours but above the 14,000 number (G24xxx). When I got it at 59,000 miles there was a noticeable harsh and clunky upshift, always in the 1-2 or 2-3 shift, between 0~30 MPH. Also, when slowing, there was a definite harsh downshift from 3-2 and 2-1. It did not seem an adaptation issue, nor a purely mechanical one, as it was both intermittent and degree of harshness seemed to be dependent on temperature.
I dropped the trans pan at 60k, and let it drain overnight. Installed new pan/filter assembly, and refilled it with Ravenol ATF 6 HP per ZF procedure. Then drove one day, and pulled plug out of pan and drained it one more time. Again, refilled with Ravenol ATF6 HP; but before the second refill added two tubes of Lubegard Instant Shudder Fix (2oz size). Both Trans oil fills took about 6 quarts, so before I started I got the 20 qt box size of Ravenol just of be sure I had enough to do two fills. I did NOT do SDS upgrade, as I am always leary of re-writing aged electronics, but I did do a full battery disconnect and short to ground to force re-boot.
OK, after about 100 miles, the symptoms described above utterly and completely disappeared. Trans now shifts virtually seamless, as good or better than my previous 2007. Whether it was Ravenol or the additional additive package of the Instant Shudder Fix I do not know, nor care. It worked. Now at 67k, and remains smooth and issue free. Best Regards...ct
This is a "worked for me"; I am sure there are numerous others who will disagree vehemently. I own a 2004, with a VIN number lower than yours but above the 14,000 number (G24xxx). When I got it at 59,000 miles there was a noticeable harsh and clunky upshift, always in the 1-2 or 2-3 shift, between 0~30 MPH. Also, when slowing, there was a definite harsh downshift from 3-2 and 2-1. It did not seem an adaptation issue, nor a purely mechanical one, as it was both intermittent and degree of harshness seemed to be dependent on temperature.
I dropped the trans pan at 60k, and let it drain overnight. Installed new pan/filter assembly, and refilled it with Ravenol ATF 6 HP per ZF procedure. Then drove one day, and pulled plug out of pan and drained it one more time. Again, refilled with Ravenol ATF6 HP; but before the second refill added two tubes of Lubegard Instant Shudder Fix (2oz size). Both Trans oil fills took about 6 quarts, so before I started I got the 20 qt box size of Ravenol just of be sure I had enough to do two fills. I did NOT do SDS upgrade, as I am always leary of re-writing aged electronics, but I did do a full battery disconnect and short to ground to force re-boot.
OK, after about 100 miles, the symptoms described above utterly and completely disappeared. Trans now shifts virtually seamless, as good or better than my previous 2007. Whether it was Ravenol or the additional additive package of the Instant Shudder Fix I do not know, nor care. It worked. Now at 67k, and remains smooth and issue free. Best Regards...ct
ZF trans has a self adaptation mode. As well as the ecu. It is possible you performed it unknowingly. Afyer disconnecting the battery you reset the ecu mixture adaptations. From cold start, driving below 3000rpm up to 5th gear ecu will perform calibrations. For the ZF It is as follow... cold start drive below at or below 2500rpm up to 5 gear approximately 50 mph. Release gas and allow to coast to a stop without brakes. Braking slowly when vehicle no longer slows. Everything you allow the car to slow down on its own from 50 it will perform adaptation until it has done it 3 times. The fluid change for ZF was changed many years ago from "filled for life" to 6 years/60K miles so yes the change and flush was just in time and trans additives can be helpful. I use Lucas. Good job, your now a transmission tech. If you bought your Jag used after 2006 you probably have the latest updates. The car just needed the adaptation done which we do after every service. Also, any engine services you should do the hard reset because you have renewed parts the the ecu has adjusted to the worn parts
I have a 2003 xjr and it has always had 'the surge'
Goes away after 5 mins when the engine is warm and all is good.
I understand from my Jag specialist that it needs a software update and a change in TC to get rid of it.
As some one has said if you shift into a lower gear it reduces it a lot.
I've just got used to it...
04-19-2023, 08:50 PM
. I own a 2004, with a VIN number lower than yours but above the 14,000 number (G24xxx). When I got it at 59,000 miles there was a noticeable harsh and clunky upshift, always in the 1-2 or 2-3 shift, between 0~30 MPH. Also, when slowing, there was a definite harsh downshift from 3-2 and 2-1. It did not seem an adaptation issue, nor a purely mechanical one, as it was both intermittent and degree of harshness seemed to be dependent on temperature.
