Hey all, since I already have a fluid longevity test thread for the Transmission fluid change I figure I'd make one for my newest longevity treatment.

Marvel Mystery Oil, If you have'nt heard of this a simple Google search will learn you more. Also theres alot of info on Bob is the oil guy ( google 'bitog forums' and go to the 'additives' subsection )

I have a 2004 Jaguar XJ8 with 73,500 miles on the clock. I purchased the car in July with 69,000 miles. It was a 1 owner car, service records show that the oil was changed every 10,000 miles as per OEM recommendation.

Personally I think that is way too long.The car was mostly highway driven so IMO that merits a 5,000 OCI with the OEM oil. The motor runs exceptionally well but I'm almost certain that there is sludge deposits inside the engine because of the long OCI's.

When I first got the car, I did an oil change using Castrol GTX 5w30. 500miles later I did another oil change using the same oil. The oil with 500 miles was near black, that doesnt neccesarily mean the oil was no good. All it means is it was doing its job of cleaning out the engine, and it also meant the engine had sludge and carbon build up( due to the long OCI's)

500 miles later at 70,000 miles, I changed out the oil again. This time using Castrol Syntec 5w30, this is a group 3 synthetic. When I topped off the oil, I made sure it went to the "full" marking on the dipstick. If you cant tell by now , I'm doing a "rinsing" cycle with the oil's. I had planned on running the Castrol Syntec to 74,000 miles and then switch to Castrol Edge 5w30 which is a group4 synthetic.

Here is where MMO comes into play. After doing alot of research on oils at BITOG, I stumbled across MMO threads. Supposedly adding 4oz's per 10gallons of fuel will improve fuel economy, clean injectors, combustion chamber, ETC.. It also is said to improve idle, valve ticking and clean out sludge deposits.

The bottle says that when changing the oil, to have 20% MMO
example, for a 5qt sump put 1 qt MMO 4 qts oil.

But over at BITOG its recommended to add a pint for the last 1000miles before your due OCI (oil change interval)

So this morning I purchased myself a bottle for NewYears. $4.50 for a qaurt. I added a few gulps to the fuel tank, topped of with Shell V-power 93. Now for the oil, I was hesitant to add a whole quart plus i wasnt changing the oil just yet.
so I checked my oil level, and it was on the lower mark of the dipstick ( half a qt of oil consumed over 3,500miles! ). The oil was a deep brown so I know its doing its job of cleaning the motor. I added a half quart and am going to drive 500 more miles before I change the oil @ 74,000miles.

I am going to update the Thread and let everyone know if it improves engine idle and performance, and also fuel economy.


I've already done a number of tune-up items to improve performance and driveabilty. sparkplugs,filters, throttlebody cleaning, maf cleaning, breather cleaning, coilpack cleaning, injector cleaning additives, fuel system cleaners, trans oil change, motor oil change.

Any ? just ask. I'll see if i can help

 

Have some pics coming of the oil filter that was on the car when purchased.

 

Heres a pic of the canister and part number



a pic of the componants inside



broken down oil on the bottom of the canister



a pic of the anti dran back valve, and proof thats its been used (bad thing)



filter element




as you can see its warped, that a sign showing that it has been overused. in the next 2 pics youll see little white marks. those are like peices of lint or fabric, hard to tell because of my crappy point and shoot camera. but the whole filter is covered in it, and the filter is also visibly full.






What to make of these photo's ? experts chime in but my take is a few things.

10,000 miles oil change intervals are a no go using conventional oil and a cheap filter. This is after 8,000 miles of mostly highway driving.

The fram filter while being cheap surprisingly has alot of filter sleeves and metal retainers, I thought I would find glued cardboard holding the element together.

I accidentally threw out the oil filter with 500miles on it, I really wanted to see what the actual element inside looked like. It was an STP filter but i wanted to see if any dirt or dust particles were on it like this one. Next week or so (once the car hits 74,000miles) I'll be gutting the current oil filter with 4,000 50% city 50% highway mileage on Castrol Syntec to see what shape its in. I hope the MMO cleans out the motor.

I know this is on an XJ but the motor is the same between S-Type, XK, and XJ. Also this vehicle was adult owned and maintained ( as are most jaguars coming off lease or finance ).

Let me also add that the motor runs very very smooth, and pulls like a beast. Thats really the surprise to me

 

Very informative and interesting read!

I'm anxious to see what effect, if any, the Marvel Mystery Oil has on the engine as a whole. I too have a high miles vehicle and was wondering if how to tell if sludge had been building up; since I don't know how often or even what type of oil the previous owner used.

As a side note, I have two 'Jag Mechanics' who differ on the use of synthetic oil in these cars in general and especially switching to it after so many miles. Since I have almost no knowledge of these issues, I'm interested to see what your experiment reveals.

Thanks for your effort and seminar!

 

Mmmmmm, I'm seeing the words 'Marvel Mystery', but I'm reading 'Snake' on every other website that mentions MMO!

 

This product is very good if used for it's original purpose. Unfortunately over the years the generations of marketeers have gone looking for new ways to spin things in order to generate additional revenue.

Here's some interesting viewpoints

http://www.baylinerownersclub.org/fo...ad.php?t=13915

and the MSD sheets:

http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/m...3/wcd04377.htm

No big mystery.

I'm curious to know how the OP determined that the factory recommended oil change interval is incorrect and inadequate.

 

Switching back and forth from synthetic to conventional oil wont do any harm to the motor. It may loosen crud/sludge on the VC gaskets and oilpan gaskets, possibly forming a leak.

Do some research and do w/e you feel comfortable doing. I recommend synthetic
Probably, I'm not endorsing nor defending the product. Based on alot of posts I've read over the internet, some professional reviews, and personnal curiosity I'm giving it a shot. I want to see if it will clear carbon deposits, improve idle, and improve MPG's. so far the 2 days that its in the oil and gas MPGs have gone up by. Tripometer B that I reset is at around 70miles and 17.0 mpg. Tripometer A is around 1,700 miles and 11.8 MPGs, 2 days ago before adding the MMO tripometer A was giving me 11.5 MPGs.

Coincidence ? possibly but I'm not sure.
10,000 miles on 7qts of conventional in a 32v v8 is a no go. This car was only freeway driven in southern New Jersey by and elderly man, with that said there is sludge build up on the filter canister. Thats a high pressure high flow area, the filter element is warped which shows there was inadequate flow, and also the bypass spring (or w/e its called) shows signs of usage which is bad because that allows oil to pass the filter resulting in unfiltered oil squirting the motor.


I cant prove to you with a spreadsheet that its inadequate because I have no UOA to show, but all the visible signs are there.

Im doing this to better my motor, even if the oil is still usable the filter isnt with that mileage. By next saturday I'll have pics of the current motor oil and opened oil filter, I may order an Oil Analysis kit tomorrow so I can ship out a sample for testing to see if I have any unsual wear going on.

 

Stating that the oil bypass shows signs of activation is correct as this is a normal part of operation even with new oil and a new filter. The bypass opens at every start until pressure is built downstream of the filter.

I believe the filter element distortion is also normal as they are crushed slightly during the assembly process.

Again, I'm curious as to how you have determined that the OEM's own oil change interval is incorrect.

 

My suggestion to you, reread my posts. In my personal opinion it is too long of an interval for conventional oil. It is incorrect ? on this application it appears so although I cant prove it as I said.


heres a picture of an unused fram oil filter and a few others as well




they dont looked crushed to me.

Im curious as to how you have determined that the OEM's own oil change interval is correct. Please dont say because its still running.

Have you ran oem oil and filter and changed only at 10,000 mile OCI's ?
Have you physically opened and checked the oil filter for any excess sludge ?
Have you opened up your motor and inspected the valves, timing, and piston rings ?
Have you gotten an UOA ?

If so can you provide the proof of the pudding ?

You are asking for something that I ALREADY say I cant provide you with. I clearly stated those are my opinions, at my comfort level, with no scientific proof. You can either read, or not read. Thank you in advance for being a gentlemen from here on out.

Victor

 

I'm simply asking what you've based your conclusion on. If it's just gut feeling then that's fine.

I recently retired from an aircraft engine OEM after over 30 years service, most of that time in direct contact with the end users in the field as a engineering and technical support contact. The most difficult ongoing relationships were frequently with owners who second guessed, reverse engineered and 'knew better' than the OEM. Most often this was accompanied by the suggestion of some sort of conspiracy plot as to why we specified doing things a certain way. An OEM typically has access to millions of reliability and durability data points aquired through a variety of different sources in the field. When compared to the limited information in the hands of an owner it's hard to understand the logic used to substantiate the viewpoint. I guess your post is sort of of a 'deja vu all over again'.

No where did I state that the OEM interval is correct, nor would I do so as I have no access to the reliability or durability data that Jaguar used to substantiate the interval. Having said that, I highly doubt that they would knowingly specify something that would seriously endanger their warranty budget, reputation and public image. It would cost them nothing and actually be a profit driver for the dealers to have a much shorter interval that matched other OEMs cars in a similar market.

In any case, good luck with your research and experiments no matter the outcome.

 

I never stated that the OEM interval incorrect, I'll qoute "Personally I think that is way too long"

They recommend longer intervals as a selling point, if you read the manual its has an asterisk next to recommened OCI. The 10,000 mile marker is an example of the most ideal of situations. Hardly any idling, moderate weather, very low dust, premium fuel.

It would benefit the dealers to have shorter oil changes, but comparing it to BMW's 15,000 mile OCI the purchaser would start asking questions. Most people shopping for $80,000 automobiles arent into the maintenance involved with it, they want convenience. 10,000 mile OCI's probably wont seize a motor in 60k miles, the the manufacturer doesnt have to worry about warranty claims.

10k OCI's most likely wont seize a motor well into over 100k miles, but it definately will not keep it at its peak and sludge free. Compression would be low, noisy vavletrains, hard starting in the cold, high heat in the warm.

Keep in mind that this particular manufacturer swears by "Sealed for Life" for the transmissions, transfer cases, and rear differential. See where I'm going with this ?

ZF suggest changing the fluid every 30k
X-type owners are constantly replace transfer cases, and the ones changing out the fluid find hardly any fluid coming out. Just black glob that has the thickness of mollases
Differentials need oil replaced every 30k

Whether its a conspiracy or the likes, I dont know and it doesnt matter to me at this point. Whats matter to me is having a clean motor working the best that it possibly can.

I'm giving this a shot, if the oil that was a rich brown color at 3,500 miles turns into black junk at 4,000 miles then I know its dirty inside and being cleaned out. If it winds up being a shad darker, then it has done anything either. But so far the motor is running noticably smoother and as stated earlier -> MPGs are up some.

 

I read things differently I guess but no matter. As stated previously I am retired now and this thread reads too much a like a deja vu from my business career.

 

LOL

that was my response AFTER you said I came to the conlcusion that it is incorrect. Happy retirement.

 

I remember Marvel Mistery Oil from from 1957 when my step dad sold it in his gas station as a "top lube" to be mixed with fuel. It did make your exhust smell kind of sweet. We kind of smiled even then as we didn't really believe in it. Since then, I recall a number of reports debunking the whole concept of top lube in general and miracles in a can specifically.

I"m not aware of any OEM auto maker that recommends the product for any reason altho I suppose there are some equipment makers who find it usefull for something or other such as solvent.

Don't be offended Brooklyn. These folks have been around for a long time as well as the people who buy into their story. Folks smarter than you or me continue to buy the product and others like it in hopes of a cheep short cut to whatever they seek.

 

I dont buy miracles in a can either. If there was something wrong with my motor, as in running realy bad or a knock, or bad performance. This wouldnt be my solution nor do I recommend this for those purposes.

My motor runs really well, I just want the sludge and carbon deposits gone. In my research I stumbled across Auto-RX. Heres a link to a BMW owner who hasnt changed his motor oil for 60k miles

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1281659

Then researching ARX, I stumbled across some threads with first hand testimonials about MMO. Then reading and reading and reading I decided to give it a shot since 1) its cheap 2) its readily available and 3) supossedly NOT 1 bad experiance with it.

 

StrateLoss- Look at it like this. If you ever had to clean up a sludged-up engine prior to rebuild you will recall it took scrapers and hard bristle brushes with straight mineral spirits. Even then it was hard scraping and scrubing work. Some fools have been known to use gas or kerosene instead of mineral spirits and it's still no easy job even if you survive the explosion.

Engine rebuild pros use hot tanks with very caustic non explosive chemicals and they "cook" the engine and parts for hours if not days. I'll give you that products like MMO and the like could inhibit sludge build up but they can not clean out sludge that has already formed.

So "so take my advice I give you like a brother" (that's an old song) and spend your money on quality motor oil and timely changes before the sludge takes hold. Forget about the sludge that's already there, that battle has already been lost. Worry about it at rebuild time.

 

Thank you. I doubt there is heavy sludge, but I figure there are trace amounts that can be removed with a little cleaning agent.

The idle used to fluctuate by about 200 rpms. I can honestly say that with 130 miles or so, that fluctuation has lowered to about 50-100 rpm at idle. Saturday I will be changing out the oil and filter since I have off from work. I will post photos then and and updates in between.

Also is this proves pointless, its no big deal since I am due for a change at 74k and the MMO only cost $4.50.

Thanks again Tarheal

 

I don't quite follow the logic of how sludge in the oil could cause an idle speed fluctuation.

 

Your logic appears to be flawed Mikey, please link my statement regarding sludge to my statement involving idle.

There is a period, and a complete line skipped between my sludge statement and my idle fluctuation statement.

Also... cardon buildup directly effects idle. Thanks, if this thread isnt to your liking please see yourself out. Or at least avoid posting in here

 

Ya, you're right this is deja vu- except I used to get paid for stuff like this, now I don't.