Motor running rough & grinding noise - dealer stumped!
#121
honestly ill tell you what I think
I think its embarrassing and a total failure of the system when a factory tech can't figure out the problem. This has been going on for months and still they can't figure it out. My problem still hasn't been resolved and at this point i just deal w it until the car is fully warmed up and it goes away. Ive owned BMW's for the last 10 years and NEVER has a factory service tech NOT been able to diagnose a problem and fix it. Jaguar can NEVER and will NEVER become a player on the big stage w BMW and MERCEDES. NEVER AGAIN DO I GET A JAGUAR ... !!!! G A R B A G E !
#122
I do not think it is the car's fault. Most manufacturers have all sorts of issues with their vehicles.
For me the issue is lack of good Jaguar techs or any good techs, even the Dodge dealer that services my trucks has a crappy service department with techs that screw up something almost every time I get service.
Hopefully someone can offer some input regarding my previous post.
For me the issue is lack of good Jaguar techs or any good techs, even the Dodge dealer that services my trucks has a crappy service department with techs that screw up something almost every time I get service.
Hopefully someone can offer some input regarding my previous post.
#123
I think its embarrassing and a total failure of the system when a factory tech can't figure out the problem. This has been going on for months and still they can't figure it out. My problem still hasn't been resolved and at this point i just deal w it until the car is fully warmed up and it goes away. Ive owned BMW's for the last 10 years and NEVER has a factory service tech NOT been able to diagnose a problem and fix it. Jaguar can NEVER and will NEVER become a player on the big stage w BMW and MERCEDES. NEVER AGAIN DO I GET A JAGUAR ... !!!! G A R B A G E !
I don't know what business you are in, but you need to stop and contemplate for a while.
******************
Jahummer..........techs everywhere thank you for being so level-headed, patient, and trying to grasp what the other side is wrestling with!
My two cents.............
#124
Steve,
What about my previous post??? A small update today, I spoke with a master tech at another Jag dealer and he does not think it is the plugs. He said the difference between the two banks means little. If there was a plug issue, there would be a code he said and suggested an ECU reflash.
What about my previous post??? A small update today, I spoke with a master tech at another Jag dealer and he does not think it is the plugs. He said the difference between the two banks means little. If there was a plug issue, there would be a code he said and suggested an ECU reflash.
#125
Steve,
What about my previous post??? A small update today, I spoke with a master tech at another Jag dealer and he does not think it is the plugs. He said the difference between the two banks means little. If there was a plug issue, there would be a code he said and suggested an ECU reflash.
What about my previous post??? A small update today, I spoke with a master tech at another Jag dealer and he does not think it is the plugs. He said the difference between the two banks means little. If there was a plug issue, there would be a code he said and suggested an ECU reflash.
Sorry Jahummer, I had to go do something else and chill a while......
I'm with the last guy for the most part. I don't want to forget about the +7% verses the +1%, but it is sort of common for the 4.2L engines to do that; and I've never been able to really put a conclusive thumb on why. Time after time the RH bank goes higher positive than the LH. One time moving the injectors side to side corrects it, sometimes nothing does, yet it may not affect the drivability at all. I've mentioned before that the non-supers are many times corrected by removing the intake plenum and replacing the metal gaskets. I have to assume they develop a minor leak down low where it can't really be conclusively detected. On the supers, we have resorted to replacing the various seals between the blower, the intercoolers and the bypass adapter. Rover supers especially seem to be affected by those induction seals and hoses, but the Jags are susceptible, too. Sometimes you hit pay dirt, sometimes you get poked in the eye!
I know that isn't much help, but this isn't Utopia Motors either, like our friend earlier would like.
Cheers,
The following users liked this post:
jahummer (04-30-2012)
#126
I think its embarrassing and a total failure of the system when a factory tech can't figure out the problem. This has been going on for months and still they can't figure it out. My problem still hasn't been resolved and at this point i just deal w it until the car is fully warmed up and it goes away. Ive owned BMW's for the last 10 years and NEVER has a factory service tech NOT been able to diagnose a problem and fix it. Jaguar can NEVER and will NEVER become a player on the big stage w BMW and MERCEDES. NEVER AGAIN DO I GET A JAGUAR ... !!!! G A R B A G E !
#127
Sorry Jahummer, I had to go do something else and chill a while......
I'm with the last guy for the most part. I don't want to forget about the +7% verses the +1%, but it is sort of common for the 4.2L engines to do that; and I've never been able to really put a conclusive thumb on why. Time after time the RH bank goes higher positive than the LH. One time moving the injectors side to side corrects it, sometimes nothing does, yet it may not affect the drivability at all. I've mentioned before that the non-supers are many times corrected by removing the intake plenum and replacing the metal gaskets. I have to assume they develop a minor leak down low where it can't really be conclusively detected. On the supers, we have resorted to replacing the various seals between the blower, the intercoolers and the bypass adapter. Rover supers especially seem to be affected by those induction seals and hoses, but the Jags are susceptible, too. Sometimes you hit pay dirt, sometimes you get poked in the eye!
I know that isn't much help, but this isn't Utopia Motors either, like our friend earlier would like.
Cheers,
I'm with the last guy for the most part. I don't want to forget about the +7% verses the +1%, but it is sort of common for the 4.2L engines to do that; and I've never been able to really put a conclusive thumb on why. Time after time the RH bank goes higher positive than the LH. One time moving the injectors side to side corrects it, sometimes nothing does, yet it may not affect the drivability at all. I've mentioned before that the non-supers are many times corrected by removing the intake plenum and replacing the metal gaskets. I have to assume they develop a minor leak down low where it can't really be conclusively detected. On the supers, we have resorted to replacing the various seals between the blower, the intercoolers and the bypass adapter. Rover supers especially seem to be affected by those induction seals and hoses, but the Jags are susceptible, too. Sometimes you hit pay dirt, sometimes you get poked in the eye!
I know that isn't much help, but this isn't Utopia Motors either, like our friend earlier would like.
Cheers,
As I have said many times, I typically lease cars so I don't have to deal with any of this and I like to change things up. Almost all hi-tech cars are going to need maintenance after so many years of driving, some don't seem to understand that or have made inaccurate judgements based on luck. I just love this car so much I'd like to keep it as new as possible. Hopefully I have not made a bad decision
#128
#129
#130
Well Steve, despite what you and the master tech said, I figured it would not hurt to replace the plugs. It may be too soon and possibly coincidence but the motor is running a lot smoother no roughness stopped in gear. RPM at idle is higher too. The Bank 1 plugs were a bit wet with oil and a bit of carbon. Two of them took quite a bit of effort to remove. I'll take them to the dealer Monday for their thoughts. I still have rough idle for about a minute on cold starts which they think they can eliminate.
Last edited by jahummer; 05-04-2012 at 03:30 PM.
#131
#132
Good Grief,
I'm 67 and I've never seen plugs that badly eroded away. The two outer ones don't show a lot of fouling, but the white carbon build up on the centre two plus the completely eroded electrode is a little odd. Almost as if they are running too lean, but I can't figure the carbon deposits out. They don't look like oil carbon, it is usually fairly black. Way back when, before emission controls & catalytic converters etc, we use to just the state of the engine by the colour of the tailpipe. About that colour was usually a little lean, but almost right. Tailpipes today are usually a light chocolate when the engine is running right. It could be worth while taking a look at yours to see what colour it is. If it is very light, it might be an indication. Without looking back through the thread, how many miles have you got on the clock?
Cheers,
Languid
I'm 67 and I've never seen plugs that badly eroded away. The two outer ones don't show a lot of fouling, but the white carbon build up on the centre two plus the completely eroded electrode is a little odd. Almost as if they are running too lean, but I can't figure the carbon deposits out. They don't look like oil carbon, it is usually fairly black. Way back when, before emission controls & catalytic converters etc, we use to just the state of the engine by the colour of the tailpipe. About that colour was usually a little lean, but almost right. Tailpipes today are usually a light chocolate when the engine is running right. It could be worth while taking a look at yours to see what colour it is. If it is very light, it might be an indication. Without looking back through the thread, how many miles have you got on the clock?
Cheers,
Languid
#135
xrguy, Brutal,
I keep looking back at those plugs, and the outers (in the photo) are running 'clean', but the two in the centre are fairly 'deposited'. I'm not experienced enough to ascertain which of the two outers is the correct 'burn' colour although I suspect the right hand one is closer to ideal than the left. In my experience, with factory standard mainfolds the outers always burn a little leaner than the inners. Thinking that through & given that the computer is going to look at air flow sensor, exhaust gas content, and throttle/power position to calculate what it thinks the fuel/air ratio should be, I'd reckon that there is an inlet manifold/plenum chamber air leak somewhere. (jahummer, I'd also guess that your fuel consumption is a bit higher than perhaps it should be). Looking at those plugs, the centre ones are being fed on a richer mixture than the outers, and the left outer looks a bit lean to me.
What do you guys' think?
Cheers,
Languid
I keep looking back at those plugs, and the outers (in the photo) are running 'clean', but the two in the centre are fairly 'deposited'. I'm not experienced enough to ascertain which of the two outers is the correct 'burn' colour although I suspect the right hand one is closer to ideal than the left. In my experience, with factory standard mainfolds the outers always burn a little leaner than the inners. Thinking that through & given that the computer is going to look at air flow sensor, exhaust gas content, and throttle/power position to calculate what it thinks the fuel/air ratio should be, I'd reckon that there is an inlet manifold/plenum chamber air leak somewhere. (jahummer, I'd also guess that your fuel consumption is a bit higher than perhaps it should be). Looking at those plugs, the centre ones are being fed on a richer mixture than the outers, and the left outer looks a bit lean to me.
What do you guys' think?
Cheers,
Languid
#137
#138
I do not think they are eroded but there are burnt oil deposits built up on the ground and electrodes, some worse than others. They had about 84K miles of use.
I will posts pics of bank 1 plugs, instead of having the tan coloured build up, they have some black carbon and were damp, with oil and 2 were a bit hard to remove.
I will posts pics of bank 1 plugs, instead of having the tan coloured build up, they have some black carbon and were damp, with oil and 2 were a bit hard to remove.
Last edited by jahummer; 05-05-2012 at 08:25 AM.
#139
#140
Good Grief,
Tailpipes today are usually a light chocolate when the engine is running right. It could be worth while taking a look at yours to see what colour it is. If it is very light, it might be an indication. Without looking back through the thread, how many miles have you got on the clock?
Cheers,
Languid
Tailpipes today are usually a light chocolate when the engine is running right. It could be worth while taking a look at yours to see what colour it is. If it is very light, it might be an indication. Without looking back through the thread, how many miles have you got on the clock?
Cheers,
Languid