hmm... i also just changed the transmission fluid to Mercon SP about a month ago(no filter changed, only changing the fluid) Total about 4-5 liters for the fluid and the gear shifting is much smooth after the fluid changed. no rough shifting during normal drive but the response of the transmission is still poor comparing with my BMW (using same Transmission). And this behavior is not relative to the fluid changed. before the change, the performance of the transmission is already poor.. I have drove for about 2k miles now. so far so good.

Maybe I will flush the firmware of the transmission later to see what is the difference.

but now, it's ok for the transmission and will do full flush with ZF fluid and Pan at 90k miles.

 

I have been a member of this Forum for going on 7 years. This topic has been running under 1 Thread or another for since way before I came on the scene. To me it boils down to 3 main positions:


1. Owners who adhere to the ZF/Jag guidelines for service intervals (sealed for life), If it ain't broke don't fix it.


2.Proponents of a pro active service intervention at 50,000 miles or thereabouts using ZF approved fluids, filters. sleeves, seals, etc.


3. Number 2 above using after market fluids recommended by other OEMs including Mobile1.


SO A FEW THOUGHTS
I think the sealed for life position is usually held by owners who have no intention of owning the car into it's high mileage old age. New car buyers and 2 or 3 year old car buyers who don't expect to ever experience a transmission problem and would trade off the car at the first hint of any out of pocket expensive trouble.


Number 2 position is held buy owners who reject the "sealed for life concept" expect to keep the car for an extended period or want to be sure that the car is passed on in top condition out of respect for the machinery or future owners.


Number 3 position is usually held by owners in No 2 group who are maintenance cost sensitive, dismissive of the ZF/Jag guidelines and perhaps experiencing transmission issues.


I don't think we will see many minds changed. The lowered cost of ZF approved fluid over the last few years is mitigating the cost issue. The argument that expensive ZF fluid is a small price to pay as opposed to major transmission failure is a strong one particularly given the dire warnings from ZF. On the other hand, we see no reports of induced failure due to the use of Mobile 1 or the like.


I used Mobile 1 to flush out the 2 ZF transmissions I owned at 50k miles with good results. I am undecided if I would do it again given the fading cost issue.
Some of the old hands, 6 years back, will remember the Indianapolis Jag mechanic who used to be on the forum who only used Mobile 1 and strongly attested to it's efficacy.

 

Except that both ZF & Jag say it is NOT sealed for life. E.g. Jag has a service interval for changing the trans oil etc and that interval depends on usage, geographical region etc. This has been on their TOPIX site for at least 5 years as it was already there when I joined TOPIX.

Please can we collectively kill this myth about sealed for life! Jaguar do NOT say that it's sealed for life. (I will (un)happily believe that some Jag franchises are pathetic enough that they say it. But they disqualify themselves from being fit for purpose if they do so.)

 

My Audi A8 is "sealed for life" and it was flushed with Life Guard 6 and a filter at 70,000. The previous owner of my 2006 XJR was asked to do the same. He used Pentosin ATF1. Seven liters. He could source the Pentosin and filter local.
Both shift fine. So far. I think you can use Mobil 1, Mercon SP, ATF1, LG 6, and maybe others.

 

I feel the exact same way.

 

It seems that ZF and Jaguar have both contributed to the confusion about the 6HP26 being "sealed for life,” or “filled for life.”

Page 88 of the "Jaguar Technical Guide / The XJ Range / Introduction / 2004 Model Year" states:

"Filled for life transmission fluid."

No other service conditions are given.

__________________________________________________


Page 2984 of the Powertrain section of the X350 Workshop Manual states:

"CAUTION: Use only Shell M1375.4 Automatic transmission fluid. Use of any other fluids may result in a transmission malfunction or failure.

Normal Maintenance: Not necessary. Filled for Life.

Severe Duty Maintenance: Change the fluid at 48,000 km (30,000 mile) intervals.”

(the bold text above is as it appears in the manual)

__________________________________________________


On page iv of the ZF 6HP26 repair manual available here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/55467239/Z...-Repair-Manual

ZF makes this seemingly contradictory statement:

"The transmission is filled for life with oil.

An oil change is not necessary before 160,000 km or 10 years."

(the bold text is as it appears in the manual)

__________________________________________________


However, according to this ZF document:

http://www.zf.com/media/media/docume...hselkit_EN.pdf


“ZF automatic transmissions are filled with specially developed semi-synthetic oils.

At very high operating temperatures, the oil ages faster than under normal conditions.

Examples:
Many trips at high speeds.
Many trips with a trailer in tow.
Sporty driving.

Depending on the driving style, ZF therefore recommends a transmission oil change every 80,000 to 120,000 km, or after 8 years at the latest."

__________________________________________________


Cheers,

Don

 

Unfortunately it's being perpetuated by dealers to folks who then take said advice at face value as gospel. Some of the stuff I've witnessed at local dealers service depots (in terms of advice and diag / service writers), makes me want to puke.

I was trained on Jaguar's (via a rather large Indy Jaguar shop) in the early 1990's and my old boss would have tossed my tail out the door had I claimed some of the crap I've seen being preached nowadays.

Maybe it's time to open an shop ;-).

 

Just remember ... the transmission IS sealed for life ... the life of its GUARANTEE

 

Interesting and informative info. Based on all that information, I will change the trans oil using Lifeguard6. Question re procedure. I will purchase the new pan, connector and ZF Lifeguard6 for my '06 XJR with 95k miles on it. Considering the following. Drain old fluid, remove old pan, install new pan and connector, refill trans with ZF, circulate fluid for a short period of time, then drain again and install ZF fluid, using prescribed procedures as recommended on this forum and ZF site. This way I will be able to change out more of the old fluid from the cooler and converter. This may be a bit more expensive using twice as much ZF, but this is likely the last time I will do this. This is not a daily driver and most likely I will never see the odometer add another 30k. Two additional questions: Is it difficult to reinstall the fill screw and where can I purchase an inexpensive thermometer? Just finished changing the fluid in the supercharger. Fun job with big hands. Thanks for all the interesting and helpful advice.

 

I can't help you with the screw question but infrared thermometers are cheap and accurate and can be found on eBay or any auto parts store for under $20

 

Hi Richard,

It might be prudent to wait to replace the pan until you've done your first (of two) or second (of three) fluid changes. Since the filter is built into the pan on the 6HP26, wouldn't it make sense to avoid subjecting the new filter to the dirtiest old fluid in the transmission, instead waiting so that it is only subjected to the cleanest blend of new and old fluid?

Here's the basic procedure I'm considering:

Drain the old fluid and measure its volume
Refill with an equal amount of fresh LG 6
Drive the car awhile (maybe even a day or two)

Optional repeat of first step:
Drain the old fluid
Refill with fresh LG 6
Drive the car awhile again (maybe even a day or two)

Drain the fluid
Remove the pan
Inspect for any issues
Clean and re-seat the electrical connector(s)
Replace the main connector sleeve
Clean the pan gasket surface on the transmission
Install the new pan/filter following the Workshop Manual specs (page 3084 of the Powertrain section pdf)
The torque spec for the drain plug and pan screws is only 8 Nm / 71 inch-pounds (less than 6 ft.-lb.).
The manual does not specify a typical tightening sequence, beginning on middle screws and spiraling outward, but I think I'll do so anyway.
Refill with the last of my LG 6 fluid, following the Workshop Manual instructions regarding temperature to ensure the correct fluid level (page 2989 of the Powertrain section pdf). To measure the temperature, I'll use both SDD (per the manual) and my inexpensive infrared thermometer as Sean mentioned.

I would likewise welcome input from you and others.

Cheers,

Don

 

If you let the transmission drain overnight it will require 7 liters to refill. I plan on just draining and refilling after 20k more miles.
I hope to do the supercharger oil this long weekend. I wear XL or XXL gloves. My hands will be working above the plug.

 

I find it very interesting that Jaguar and other car manufacturers initially recommended that the fluid was "lifetime" and no service was necessary. Who's lifetime? I don't doubt that the ZF transmission is a fine transmission, but it's an extremely expensive (and comparatively difficult) transmission to service. I also have a 2001 Ford Expedition with 240,000 miles and I've changed the fluid twice. Never any problems of any kind and it a much easier job plus my converter has a drain plug.

 

yes, this has been going around for some time (the life tranny issues). Same talk in the Audi forums...first it was 'filled for life' then they revised it to mean 'filled for life of the warranty'.

So change your fluid

 

Same on the BMW forums.

 

I'll share what I've just done and found wrt fluids for my '04 XJ8 (125k mi, lot of it hiway) recently purchased. Trans was serviced a couple years ago w/ Jag fluid supposedly and new pan it appears (it's been off). Trans was shifting slowly from 1-2 and 2-3 unless I let off power briefly. Also it was slow going into 1st again at a stop, causing the lurch. And the TC was locking in and out when cold. So I finally got a qt of fluid, from an Audi dealer, G052162 A2 (A2 is just the bottle size), which I think is actually for the 5 spd. She coiuldn't find the G055005 which is for 6 spd I think. Anyway I bought the former for $33. They said they use it in everything. I got the car up and level, got the plug out, trans was about 37C. Level was low- couldn't find level with finger. Pumped in the whole qt. Still low. Looked at a bottle of Valvoline Max Life Synthetic on hand, and low and behold it had the same part number on it for Audi. So I topped it off with that, maybe only 6 oz. Trans was up over 50C but I plugged it, knowing it was much better off now. And it cured everything. No more lurch or slow shift. Works great now and what a relief.

Then I googled the above part numbers with Valvoline and found an App chart (below). And the Max Life Synthetic in the red bottle is compatible with the ZF5,6,8 and meets Shell M1375.4 and others. Their Import MV synthetic ATF in blue bottle also works for several models.
Here is an application chart from Valvoline. It lists the different ZFs for BMW. Other models listed by year. All can use the Maxlife.
http://www.carquestprofessionals.com...%206.10.13.pdf.

Here is an interesting letter about fluids and warranty from the Valvoline website- OEM cannot be force you to use their fluid or cancel warranty.
Technology Technical Information | Valvoline.com (Select the "MaxLife ATF Application Letter".)


They say you can mix with other fluids also. Note the Valvoline is carried all over and is about $6/qt. and is in gallon sizes too. I think Valvoline knows quite a bit about oils, and if it meets the specs, it should do fine. I'm still going to do a change later but will probably still use the ZF brand, but am putting this out there for anyone wanting to try it instead of the Mobil for example. Valvoline says they meet or beat the OEM specs.

 

rcannon, the last thing I would be doing is mix fluids in my trans and I certainly would not do it twice

I wonder if either the Audi dealer or Valvoline would repair your trans if you have issues caused by their claims. Thats happened here in OZ and no owners got compensated

Its up to you but as you said you are going to put the Lifeguard 6 back in Id do it sooner rather than latter.
As you have mixed fluids you will need to do a number of fills with LG6 to flush that mix out but you will never be sure unless you take the torque converter out.

On another note all of this reminds me of the counterfeit aircraft parts scandals of the early 90's.
Now I know we are only talking about risking a costly rebuild so save a few bucks on oil and not risking lives like in aviation. But the parallels are quite similar.

As a pilot im obviously in the Lifeguard 6 camp

Cheers
34by151

 

34x151 I agree not worth the risk to save a few bucks. I don't think the results would be bad using the Mercon SP for the ZF 6HP26 used in Ford products, or the Valvoline Maxlife which meets the Shell M1375.4 equiv spec, which has undoubtedly by been tested on ZF 6 trans. Valvoline even says they will stand by their recommendations and has a phone number to call if you experience damage. But I think the problem is when you mix as you say. You cannot get rid of all the old fluid and there are unpredictable results when you mix additives. Valvoline says theirs will mix with OEM fluids, but they also note there are shudder issues with a one transmission model. So they are not always right. By now though they'd know if the ZF had issues and there are no reports. And possibly the Valvoline may be better. But since the price is down on the ZF, it's best to stay with it I think. Mine should still have Jag fluid, which would be the same as ZF 6 fluid.







I would like to switch to the steel pan though, with replaceable filter. Any experience with that?

 

Since ZF insists on different fluids for its 4-, 5-, 6- and 8-speed transmissions, I would not personally trust Valvoline to tell me that one fluid will work just fine in all those gearboxes. While fluid manufacturers insist their products are "backward compatible," ZF still recommends Dexron III in most of its older 4-speed boxes. Not Dexron VI, not Dex/Merc, not Maxlife, and especially not one of the newer Lifeguard fluids for which they're accused of price gouging. If ZF doesn't recommend Lifeguard 8 for earlier transmissions, why would I trust Valvoline to tell me a Lifeguard 8-compatible fluid will work in my '93 4HP24 for which Dexron IIE/III was the originally-specifed fluid? I can tell you from experience that neither Dexron VI nor Dex/Merc work nearly as well as Redline D4, which has a higher viscosity than either Dexron VI or Dex/Merc and is the the only modern "Dexron III" replacement I've found that actually locks up the torque converter properly. Here's a link to ZF's recommended fluids for their transmissions:

http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/u...omendation.pdf


I've been adding additional fluid specs to the spreadsheet Partick the Cat created to compare various transmission fluids that claim to meet the Shell M1375.4 spec (attached). So far, Lifeguard 6 is the only fluid whose published specifications all match those of Shell M1375.4 exactly.

Mercon SP is the only known non-ZF fluid that comes close to the Shell/LG6 specs and is the same color (brown), though its viscosity specs are a little higher than Shell/LG6. Valvoline Maxlife's viscosity specs are a little higher still, and its color is red, suggesting its chemical composition is even more different from LG6 than Mercon SP.

LG6 is a very low-viscosity fluid, and so far I haven't found any other fluid purported to meet M1375.4 whose published viscosity specs are as low (not even Mercon SP). Whether a slightly higher viscosity will cause any problems or make any difference at all, I don't know.

We report, you decide.

 

Just as important as the viscosity index, is the friction modifiers added to any given fluid. As one who knows there is a difference, I would suggest that you not go to your local Jag dealer for fluid unless you just like giving them over $50.00 a liter, but do seek LG6 from other suppliers. It truly does matter.