So was your previous quote about where MSP and LG6 are manufactured from your ex-Shell friend, or was it from the E90post thread I identified? I just want to keep track of the sources for all the information we post here so we can separate confirmed facts from theories and assumptions.

Thanks,

Don

 

He confirmed they produced the Mercon SP at the facility in Houston. I cannot know, nor can anyone who doesn't have direct knowledge of the formulation at Shell Europe, and that of US stock. Both are used in ZF 6HP26 units. Best I got Don.

 

I come back to the quote from penrite when the pulled LG6 from the "SIN ATF" product

To quote the press release
"Two ATF applications that will not be covered at this stage are ZF 6 speed, and Mercedes 7 speed transmissions. This is because the technology that was used in SIN ATF that allowed us to cover these applications is no longer being manufactured anywhere in the world."

The product is now named "ATF FS"
ATF FS (Full Syn.)

Here is the original data sheet for "SIN ATF"
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/1SIN%20ATF.pdf

What ever the ingredient was is clearly no available any more. So while the other may be close they are not LG6 spec. Mercon is on the list of the new product

My assessment is all others are not LG6
Not using LG6 = Risk
You can assess the risk for yourself but for me it not with it
The cost of a possible rebuild (or early rebild) does not outweigh any possible saving which is clearly very small saving nowadays

IF anyone is only doing this for the knowledge
Get some of the fluids new (never used) and have them analysed then see if they are the same or not.

Cheers
34by151

 

Thanks for the clarification, David.

If you've read the last dozen posts or so, you've noted that the ZF representative speculated that Mercon SP may be the same as LG6, but he couldn't say for certain. Klaus of CTSC stated that the individual automakers program the Mechatronic specifically for the slippage characteristics of the fluid they use, Mercon SP in the case of Ford's 6SHP26, LifeGuard 6 for nearly all of the European 6HP26s.

Cheers,

Don

 

Does anyone have access a gas chromatography/mass spectrometry system...?

 

Further to my post #123 I contacted penrite regards the additive that is no longer available and got this

"I’m afraid I was never told he name of the additive –it really doesn’t matter to me as it is no longer on the world market.
You might want to ask ZF about that (good luck there).
We have no current plans to make fluid for the ZF 6 speed automatic transmission."

I then rang the Tech Line and got this info from the same guy (Alan)
1. He does not know the name of the additive
2. The additive was supplied by ZF
3. Without the Additive they can not support the ZF 6 speed for Jag
4. They can support the ZF 6 speed in Ford, BMW and others as the oil does not require the additive

I asked what makes the Jag ZF different and got this
He did not know the exact differences in the Jag internal parts but confirmed it a combination of internal parts and the programming that requires the additive.

He then confirmed the only fluid supplier are Jag and ZF LG6

Cheers
34by151

 

Thanks for making those contacts, 34by151,

That's really interesting, and seems to contradict what the ZF representative told me:

"The OE fluids and ZF Lifeguard Fluid 6 are the same for the JLR and BMW 6hp26 applications."

Curioser and curioser!

Don

 

There are so many variables involved with transmission performance, including valve body wear, programming, solenoid performance, driver input, other system interaction, that the only constant that can be counted on is the fluid, and that with age and contamination becomes another variable. As one who worked for a major auto company, I know the fluid choices in many cases are not just a whim. I too, as stated before, really do advocate using the intended fluid. If I do find that Shell's US market product (Mercon SP) contains the same basic additives, that would be the only other fluid choice I would consider. But until that time, as I have stated, LG6 is my choice. If it were unavailable, that would be a different story.

 

That's exactly what I'm hoping for too, David. I'm in the LG6 camp for now simply because no one has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Mercon SP is the same fluid with the same slippage and other characteristics. As soon as someone gives us sufficient evidence that Mercon SP is the same formula, or so close as to provide identical performance and long-term protection for the transmission internals, I'll gladly pay Mercon SP prices instead of LifeGuard 6 prices for my next fluid change!

Cheers,

Don

 

My Ford Mercon SP, donated by my friendly local Ford dealer, was made in Canada. It is doing just fine after 10,000kms.


PS Note date on the label.We beat Huston to it!

 

Six Rotors,

Do you know where in Canada the Mercon SP is made? And if so, is it a plant owned by Shell or another oil company? I assume that since the bottle says "Made in Canada" that it is not simply bottled there?

Thanks,

Don

 

Re. Penrite pulling LG6 conformity from SIN ATF. I wonder if the additive issue was an excuse; the viscosity figures are way off LG6. No way could you claim LG6 conformity with those differences (I would have thought)

SIN was 8.3/38/12,000 (100°C/40°C/-40°C)
LG6* is 5.6/27/8,500

*correction...
Shell M.1375.5 is ...5.6/27/8,500

 

We know that Jag (owned by Ford from 1989 to 2008) specify the ATF as just "M.1375.4"

Do we know what Ford specify for the 6HP26 boxed Lincoln et al ? Do they say "Mercon SP", or just "M.1375.4" ?

 

Ford's documentation specifies Mercon SP, and in their breakout, is the only recommended fluid for 6HP26. Usage of SP in 6HP26 is non-replaceable. (no other fluid to be used)

http://www.aa1car.com/library/ford_tsb_06144.pdf
https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubrican...us187660us.pdf

 

David,

That chart of fluids is interesting in that it refers to the "6HP26," rather than the Ford-specific part number "6SHP26." Hopefully that supports our assumption that the only difference between the Ford transmissions and others is the programming of the Mechatronic.

We've seen that MSDS before, and unfortunately it doesn't give some of the specs necessary for comparison to M1375.4 (e.g. Viscosity Index). However, reading it again does reveal one helpful bit: it refers to a Canadian manufacturer as a separate entity from the U.S. manufacturer, which confirms that Mercon SP is not made in Texas only.

Cheers,

Don

 

No, nor do I know who owns the plant. If I can get the information I will post it.

 

Try this Don...

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubrican...ERCON%20SP.pdf

 

[QUOTE=Don B;1259794]David,

That chart of fluids is interesting in that it refers to the "6HP26," rather than the Ford-specific part number "6SHP26." Hopefully that supports our assumption that the only difference between the Ford transmissions and others is the programming of the Mechatronic

The information I have read indicates that the Ford sourced the 6HP26 directly from ZF Friedrichshaven AG---as in made in Germany.

I would be surprised if ZF made a grossly different version of the transmission just for the Lincoln Navigator.

The Ford 6R80 was fitted in the 2009 model year and on Navigator. This was built under licence from ZF in Livonia ,Michigan as far as I can determine. Also Mercon LV is specified for use in this transmission.

ZF opened their North American Passenger Car Transmission Plant in 2013 in South Carolina.

Where does the 6SHP26 come from?

 

I know the 6R80 has been a nightmare for Ford and with the Mercon LV fluids.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Box

Try this Don...

Hi David,

I'm sorry if I implied that we hadn't already captured the VI and other relevant specs for Mercon SP and caused you to spend more time looking. See Partick's spreadsheet for the relevant specs of Mercon SP.

What I was trying to say was that because that particular MSDS doesn't show the VI, Iprobably had not read it carefully before (there are at least three or four Mercon SP MSDSs available online). I had missed the fact that there is a Canadian manufacturer of Mercon SP. I wonder if it is a facility owned by Shell or some other company?

Cheers,

Don