My Front Suspension's Worst Fears Realized!!! What's your take?
#22
I walked around under the car with the mechanic this morning.
The "clonk" from the front is what I thought it must be: the tie rod end with the ruptured boot, when it is disturbed under light load (like lane markers) makes some noise that I pick up audibly.
I saw the bent rear tie rod. It is not horribly bent. I would call it "bowed". I suggested to the mechanic that it could be bent back into shape and he said he wouldn't recommend it, that bending it back would probably weaken it, setting up a scenario where it would snap under hard load sometime in the future. I'm rehearsing the diplomatic language, to let him know I want him to use a pry bar to bend it back as straight and true as he can and reset the alignment, against his advice.
The mechanic showed me that all 4 RLCA bushings are shot, as well as the rear stabilizer bar link bushings. He said he couldn't find the bushings from the aftermarket and most of the stuff will have to come from Jag. Well, that's one of my specialties, so that's where I'm going to start (sourcing the parts).
My tentative solution is: sweet-talk the mechanic to please straighten the tie rod
Source upper and lower RLCA bushings, and rear stabilizer bar links, and ship them to the mechanic.
Have the mechanic install the new bushings, reset alignment, and drive away.
The "clonk" from the front is what I thought it must be: the tie rod end with the ruptured boot, when it is disturbed under light load (like lane markers) makes some noise that I pick up audibly.
I saw the bent rear tie rod. It is not horribly bent. I would call it "bowed". I suggested to the mechanic that it could be bent back into shape and he said he wouldn't recommend it, that bending it back would probably weaken it, setting up a scenario where it would snap under hard load sometime in the future. I'm rehearsing the diplomatic language, to let him know I want him to use a pry bar to bend it back as straight and true as he can and reset the alignment, against his advice.
The mechanic showed me that all 4 RLCA bushings are shot, as well as the rear stabilizer bar link bushings. He said he couldn't find the bushings from the aftermarket and most of the stuff will have to come from Jag. Well, that's one of my specialties, so that's where I'm going to start (sourcing the parts).
My tentative solution is: sweet-talk the mechanic to please straighten the tie rod
Source upper and lower RLCA bushings, and rear stabilizer bar links, and ship them to the mechanic.
Have the mechanic install the new bushings, reset alignment, and drive away.
#23
I think you are right to have the tie rod straightened however two things:
You can buy used tie rods for not a lot of money eg
jaguar x350 | eBay
What is that, about $65 US?
Also I think you need to remove it from the vehicle to straighten it.
You are making progress-finding the problem is 75% of the solution!
You can buy used tie rods for not a lot of money eg
jaguar x350 | eBay
What is that, about $65 US?
Also I think you need to remove it from the vehicle to straighten it.
You are making progress-finding the problem is 75% of the solution!
#24
You dont have to take the links out to straighten them. Weaken them? Break down the road? BS. Theyre not a high stress components. Rear bushings bad. Yes they are and so are every damn one in the shop right now. Thats "if" youre talking about the grease boots being split. That does not meen the bushing is bad. If theres no play then its not bad. Will it go bad faster with split grease boots, sure. But think about that statment long and hard. You worry that bushings will get loose faster from split boots, true. You change them now and you have good boots, which in a few years will do the exact same thing. I recommend changing them when you get play not when the boots crack. Ive had cars that the boots have been split for years and the bushings are still tight. Otherwise I need to quote them on every car in the shop and you need a new front and rear suspension
I would have replaced the coolant reservoir with a new one instead of JB welding it long before I would replace the rear control arms or bushings. But thats just me
If there play in the front tie rods then change them. Thats not uncommon because they do alot of work, When checking for rear control arm bushing play be VERY carefull about any movement because the rear lower air spring bushings get loose and make people THINK theyre feeling the control arms moving because of the control arm bushings.
I would have replaced the coolant reservoir with a new one instead of JB welding it long before I would replace the rear control arms or bushings. But thats just me
If there play in the front tie rods then change them. Thats not uncommon because they do alot of work, When checking for rear control arm bushing play be VERY carefull about any movement because the rear lower air spring bushings get loose and make people THINK theyre feeling the control arms moving because of the control arm bushings.
#25
Brutal, the split boot is the front tie rod end boot. that's not the issue and not what's in play. That tie rod end link does cause the noise I have been hearing in the front for some time. Me and the mechanic agreed that this is not in need of immediate attention.
The issue is the rear tie rod that is bent, and the rear LCA bushings are all plainly shot, as are the stabilizer bar link bushings. You can see this expressed in improper rear tire wear as well.
Brutal, I agree with you that the mechanic is incorrect in believing it's unsafe to restore the tie rod to straight by bending it back into shape, but I don't think he's incompetent. I could be wrong, however I've been around mechanics as a vendor, customer and friend for a long time, and know what to look for.
I am looking to see if those rear LCA bushings are available, to press in and out of the arms. I'm having a bit of trouble finding them.
The issue is the rear tie rod that is bent, and the rear LCA bushings are all plainly shot, as are the stabilizer bar link bushings. You can see this expressed in improper rear tire wear as well.
Brutal, I agree with you that the mechanic is incorrect in believing it's unsafe to restore the tie rod to straight by bending it back into shape, but I don't think he's incompetent. I could be wrong, however I've been around mechanics as a vendor, customer and friend for a long time, and know what to look for.
I am looking to see if those rear LCA bushings are available, to press in and out of the arms. I'm having a bit of trouble finding them.
#26
That bent rear tie rod is gonna pull the toe out big time and wear the inside tire edge fast. Unless theres play in the lower control arms i wouldnt replace them or the bushings. When you grab the rear sway bar can you move and feel/see movement in the sway bar links? Those are realativly cheap, but still. I just am not a fan of replacing for only split grease boots. On the front tie rods, if theyre noisy and youve isolated to that ide change them because that meens youve got corrosion in the sockets and from there youll have play. Theyre relatively cheap as well. But those rear arms are had to find bushings for and the complete arms are expensive and im talking from outside jaguar oem sources
#27
Here is a UK supplier of rear lower wishbones: -
Jaguar X350 Wishbone - RH Rear Lower (C2C21162) | JustJagsUK.com=
The bushes that commonly fail cost between £30-50 and two are needed on each wishbone. So in theory, cheaper to replace these bushes rather than the complete arm, except there will be additional labour to swap out the bushes.
Here is the cheapest UK supplier I have found on the net for both wishbones or the bushes in them. Note that there is also a Silentbloc type of bush on each wishbone which has a very long life, but is not obtainable if it fails.
Jaguar X350 - Items - Jaguar Spares Northeast
Jaguar X350 Wishbone - RH Rear Lower (C2C21162) | JustJagsUK.com=
The bushes that commonly fail cost between £30-50 and two are needed on each wishbone. So in theory, cheaper to replace these bushes rather than the complete arm, except there will be additional labour to swap out the bushes.
Here is the cheapest UK supplier I have found on the net for both wishbones or the bushes in them. Note that there is also a Silentbloc type of bush on each wishbone which has a very long life, but is not obtainable if it fails.
Jaguar X350 - Items - Jaguar Spares Northeast
#29
Well, there is some play in them (rear bushing). And, the tires are wearing unevenly back there. Plus, the rear makes the characteristic groans over certain road imperfections.
I am not making those repairs just now, as the car has been performing just fine with them being like they are.
I ordered a new tie rod from Euromarque in Houston for $114 + tax and shipping, as the repair shop would not budge off of their resistance to jerking the bent tie rod back into shape, citing liability concerns. Oh well. The new part should arrive tomorrow.
If I had a lift, I'd do it all myself, but I know I won't be able to safely get enough leverage on that tie rod with the car on jack stands. Sure wish I could find someone like Brutal around here. C'est la vie.
I'll update this post when I get the car back. Thanks all for the concern, input and questions.
I am not making those repairs just now, as the car has been performing just fine with them being like they are.
I ordered a new tie rod from Euromarque in Houston for $114 + tax and shipping, as the repair shop would not budge off of their resistance to jerking the bent tie rod back into shape, citing liability concerns. Oh well. The new part should arrive tomorrow.
If I had a lift, I'd do it all myself, but I know I won't be able to safely get enough leverage on that tie rod with the car on jack stands. Sure wish I could find someone like Brutal around here. C'est la vie.
I'll update this post when I get the car back. Thanks all for the concern, input and questions.
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Brutal (11-14-2012)
#30
Car is roadworthy
The mechanic installed the new rear tie rod and performed a 4 wheel alignment. He charged me $95 for an hour of labor and $64.95 for the alignment. Voila, my car rolled away from the shop tracking straight and true!
Today (Sunday), I replaced all four tires with 255/40/19 Contisportcontact2's. After changing the front lower LCA bushings, two alignments and fresh rubber on the road, the "clonk" in the front, caused by the waning front tie rod end, is almost imperceptible.
In fact, my car now performs much as it came from the factory at the moment, so I'm a happy camper.
Now it's onto the trans and air suspension issues!
Today (Sunday), I replaced all four tires with 255/40/19 Contisportcontact2's. After changing the front lower LCA bushings, two alignments and fresh rubber on the road, the "clonk" in the front, caused by the waning front tie rod end, is almost imperceptible.
In fact, my car now performs much as it came from the factory at the moment, so I'm a happy camper.
Now it's onto the trans and air suspension issues!
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